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Mezzomom
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Posted: Tue Mar 7th, 2006 11:48 am |
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| WestKYmom: This is anecdotal at best, but one of my daughter's classmates was accepted at Rose-Hulman this year. She is a high GPA student, but the school is a performing arts school which did not offer calc this year (not enough students to take it), has a rigorous arts requirement which effectively eliminates any electives or academic classes beyond the usual suspects, offers no AP classes, and has had only one graduating class. I do think she took calc at the local community college. Despite what, on first glance, would appear to be handicaps, Rose-Hulman was able to look beyond them and accepted her with merit aid.
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Driver
Banned
| Joined: | Sun Mar 5th, 2006 |
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| Posts: | 60 |
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Posted: Tue Mar 7th, 2006 01:12 pm |
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westkymom wrote: I'm suddenly very confused. My son has a 3.4 GPA in the most challenging courses that his HS offers. Should he go ahead and try for places like Harvey Mudd and Rose-Hulman? Or the Most selective LACs? ....maybe the fog will lift and I will be able to see this issue more clearly.
I see from your Introduction that we're talking about the sophomore son, right? Nothing wrong with planning ahead, but I think you're about a year ahead of schedule in worrying about class rank. Planning ahead by taking the most rigourous curriculum and keeping the GPA up were the important things, and you've seen to that. For one thing, that's a fine GPA for any sophomore carrying that workload, and should only improve as he matures (it's particularly good for a boy). For another thing, by this time next year he'll have at least one SAT score, perhaps two, under his belt, to further help you determine which schools would be reaches, matches, etc. Also, second semester Junior year is when most college counseling starts, and that would be the source for class rank info, and an appropriate time to consider it.
My "deep knowledge" of colleges is limited to the Northeast. Merit scholarships aren't offered by the most selective LACs in the NE, by which I mean Amherst/Williams/Swarthmore, Wesleyan, Middlebury, Bowdoin, Colby. I believe Hamilton, F&M, and Lafayette do offer some significant scholarships--1/2, 3/4, even full. These are very good schools, and Lafayette would be particularly appropriate given your son's academic interests in math, science.
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westkymom
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| Joined: | Mon Mar 6th, 2006 |
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| Posts: | 304 |
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Posted: Tue Mar 7th, 2006 01:29 pm |
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I am glad to know that my sophomore son has time to sort out the GPA. I guess the problem is that we live -- literally -- 2 1/2 hours from any sort of civilization. We are out in the middle of nowhere, so we have to fly to every college we visit. The problem there is time. For example, the Claremont Colleges and Reed College are the only West coast schools my son is interested in (presently). If Reed and Harvey are out of his reach academically, we would cross that entire region of the country off our list and flight itinerary.
I am breathing a little easier at this point knowing that we actually have some time to sort the GPA thing out, but being an old project manager, I'm trying to allow enough time to visit all the colleges he is interested in, but also has a chance to get into. Thanks for your help and advice.
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Tango52
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| Joined: | Sun Mar 5th, 2006 |
| Location: | USA |
| Posts: | 27 |
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Posted: Tue Mar 7th, 2006 11:18 pm |
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" But the kids who take "regular" classes (not AP or Enriched) and perhaps not as challenging as Calculus and Physics and who pull a 4.0 GPA occupy not only the valedictorian and salutorian spots, but also the top 10% of the class spots as well. My son is in the top 25% of his class. "
WestKyMom--
You 're describing my son's situation exactly. And its frustrating to be ineligible for various college honors programs and scholarship programs because of rank.
Tango
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Northeastmom
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| Joined: | Sun Mar 5th, 2006 |
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Posted: Wed Mar 8th, 2006 01:20 am |
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westkymom,
There is something that you can do. As you look at schools, you can call admissions and simply ask how they treat varying high schools, how they calulate gpas etc.
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westkymom
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| Joined: | Mon Mar 6th, 2006 |
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Posted: Wed Mar 8th, 2006 03:36 am |
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Northeastmom,
Good idea -- I'll ask my son to call and ask them how they handle different high schools.
Tango52,
It is frustrating -- and I hadn't even considered how it is affecting the money side of this issue. Is your son acutely aware of the discrepancy in the gpa's? I am curious how he feels about it. I just sat down and had a talk with my son and explained how the way his high school DOESN'T rank actually distorts his class standing and gpa as it would be viewed by some of the colleges he's interested in. I could see the light bulb come on; he straightened up in his chair; a smile spread on his face; I could see some of his confidence come back in him.
Also, my son and I watched the Harvey Mudd College (in the Claremont Consortium) Collegiate Choice Walking Tours video (link below). At the beginning of the tape, a Harvey Mudd Admissions Officer actually discussed in detail exactly what Harvey Mudd is looking for. It was most encouraging. I don't have time tonight, but tomorrow I will rewatch it and (without plagarizing) summarize the important points for this forum. My son is a PERFECT fit for Harvey Mudd; he was actually glued to the TV the whole time that video was on. He was bored by the other college videos when they talked about their guest speakers and special programs and presentations, but Harvey Mudd has guest speakers who speak about space and engineering and physics -- oh boy! You could see it in his face that he was excited about what goes on at Harvey Mudd.
Now, Harvey Mudd receives so many applications that it may be like winning the lottery to get in, but at least he has an equal chance at it. 
http://www.collegiatechoice.com/
--Rhonda
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jocelynDAD
Member
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Posted: Sun Apr 2nd, 2006 03:27 pm |
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Our D's high school is ranked in the top 5 in the State of New Jersey. The students fill the AP course, some taking them in the Sophomore year. A number of our students take classes at Princeton University (just two miles fromour school).
The competition is fierce, but happily the school does not rank. If it did, there wold be blood in the streets almost. Many of our students are National Merit and other special honors, particularly in the Science/Math area.
The curriculum is broad and deep and our daughter who wants to be a writer was able to take in her Junior and Senior year, 6 different English literature/writing intense course.
In this school being in the top 10% would be the top 1 or 2% in a less competitive school.
Ranking should be eliminated, IMO, and the strength of curiculum and grades therein be the gage.
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atlantamom
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| Joined: | Tue Mar 7th, 2006 |
| Location: | Illinois USA |
| Posts: | 112 |
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Posted: Mon Apr 3rd, 2006 01:58 am |
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I think that a strict ranking system at most schools is misleading. I don't even like the decile grouping, but I don't see how a kid that misses a decile by some hundredth of a point should be penalized. I think that the school rankings drive this silliness.
I do think that distribution information is very useful. For example, I am guessing that at my kids' school, this year's senior class would show that the upper 50 or so are clumped at the top, then you see some thinning of the clumping and then you see half the students sliding down rather rapidly. I think that a college should then conclude that the top 50 or so students are rather comparable.
Our school does weight for honors, joint college enrollment classes and AP. Unfortunately, all are given the same weight, in spite of AP classes being more difficult by quite a bit than most honors classes. We also have an arts magnet program (visual and performing) that has no weights assigned to the classes. This does create a GPA ranking issue in that anyone who takes these classes, including all music classes, will have a lower GPA than a strict academic program.
I do think that the college ranking services create a lot of the problem. Schools like to report that a high percentage of their students are in the top of their classes. For schools like Yale, for example, where a high percentage of the applicants come from non-ranking schools, the report to the ranking services relies on those schools that do rank. I believe that this creates a disadvantage for the students that go to schools that rank.
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HImom
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| Joined: | Mon Mar 20th, 2006 |
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| Posts: | 261 |
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Posted: Mon Apr 3rd, 2006 07:18 am |
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Our kids' HS uses decile ranking. For what it's worth, I'm pleased to say that the schools appear to be a bit "forgiving" when the child attends a highly competitive HS & is not in the highest decile. For example, my son was about the 5th decile (may have increased slightly after 1st semester senior year), but he still got into USC engineering, which only accepted 400 of the 4000 freshman applicants into its engineering school. (His weighted GPA was about 3.75 & he was a NMF & got SATIs of 2230 & SATIIs of 750-800, plus Eagle Scout & good ECs.) USC said that 85% of their admitted students were in the top 10% of their class & their acceptance rate was only about 25% this year.
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Consolation
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| Joined: | Mon Apr 9th, 2007 |
| Location: | USA |
| Posts: | 474 |
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Posted: Mon Apr 30th, 2007 04:54 pm |
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Resurrecting this topic, our HS neither ranks nor weights; however, they do release a profile that includes a histogram that shows how many GPAs of A+, A, A-, B+, and so on are achieved. This means that comparing the number of GPAs and the number of kids in the class, one can figure that a kid with an A average is almost certainly in the top 10% of the class. Or can one? The catch is that the stats on the chart, on the website anyway, always seem to be for an *earlier* year's class. If that class was a strong one, the rank of some kids in this class may appear lower than it actually is, and vice versa. Class size can also vary significantly, so that the top 10% for the class of 2005 that is currently on the website is 15 kids (All the kids with A and A- averages plus that one kid with a high B+), and next year it will be about 24. It's probably nice for kids with A and A- averages that colleges see that they are relatively few in number (usually about 10% of the class), but if a kid is applying to a school where that magic rank really makes a difference, he or she could be negatively affected if the GPA is that B+ near the cutoff.
Valedictorian at our school is basically meaningless, given the unweighted grades. A few years ago a girl was declared valedictorian who had not taken a SINGLE honors or AP class in her entire HS career. In my opinion they should just not name one. (I'm not going to hold my breath until they give the scholar/athlete award to a kid who has never competed on a varsity team...which would be the equivalent.)
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HImom
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Posted: Mon Apr 30th, 2007 05:14 pm |
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Our my kids' HS, they have a whole slew of vals (no sals). Everyone who has the equivalent or higher GPA of someone who has never taken an AP or Honors & never gotten a B qualifies. The "REAL" val of 2006 took tons of APs & got the highest scores in many of her classes & was a 3-sport varsity athlete (track, soccer & x-country, plus GF of a val football player; her weighted GPA was about 4.5. He went to Harvard & she went to flagship U on a full-ride because the merit money offered by the many schools that accepted her + the independent scholarships she was awarded just wasn't enough for the family to justify the expense, particularly since she's planning to go to med school. She entered the U with AP credits making her a sophomore.
The HS gives a ranking by decile. With a weighted GPA of about 3.7, my S was the 5th decile & a NMF. It's an ubercompetitive school.
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