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CardinalFang
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Posted: Thu Mar 20th, 2008 05:18 pm |
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My son got his SAT scores back today, and they were pretty good: 750/710/680. Not quite as high as his PSAT, but still excellent scores. We're proud of him.
Now I'm trying to figure out whether it's worthwhile for him to retake. He might get higher scores, but since he's either above the 75th percentile or solidly in the midrange for every school he might apply to, including Yale, would those hypothetical higher scores really help in admission? It's not like there are fifty other kids just like him applying. He's a homeschooler with a quirky profile, so he won't be likely to be grouped in with a bunch of other similar kids.
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outwest
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Posted: Thu Mar 20th, 2008 05:24 pm |
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Great scores!
I believe he is done with the SAT. 
Once you get above 700 the chances of going down increase quite a bit. Many schools do not even consider the writing score (I think only 2 of the ones my D applied to look at it). His CR/M is 1460, good enough for all colleges in the country (except maybe Cal Tech or MIT who want near perfect math scores) and good enough for merit money at many. 680 for the writing is a good score, too!
Now he can concentrate on studying for a few SAT2's. 
Last edited on Thu Mar 20th, 2008 05:26 pm by outwest
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CarolynLawrence
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Posted: Thu Mar 20th, 2008 05:32 pm |
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What does your son think?
My son had very similar scores on his first try at the SAT. He felt (rightly so) that his scores were "good enough" for most of the colleges he was considering. So, he turned his attention to the Subject exams, got them out of the way in June, and was done with testing. It made for a very stress-free spring and fall.
I think, for the colleges you have mentioned that your son is considering, that his scores are also "good enough." If he's hot to trot to take the SAT again, there's no reason he shouldn't. But, if like my son, he's "one and done" then I wouldn't stress over it. He is in good shape test-wise for 99% of the colleges in America.
Last edited on Thu Mar 20th, 2008 05:34 pm by CarolynLawrence
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CardinalFang
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Posted: Thu Mar 20th, 2008 05:40 pm |
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What does your son think?
Good question. He's thinking it over. His initial reaction to his scores was disappointment, and he's very, very competitive, so he might want to try again. On the other hand, it's a hassle to take the tests, and he has SAT IIs and an AP coming up, so maybe not.
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ellenrch
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Posted: Thu Mar 20th, 2008 08:32 pm |
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From my son's experience (no hard data), I think the writing is very unpredictable. So if you take it a second time just to increase that score, your strategy may not work. The first time, my son had a prompt that could have been designed just for him, and he got a 760 (or 740--can't remember). Because his CR score on that sitting seemed like a fluke to me (low), he took the SAT a second time. His CR went up 100 points, math stayed the same, and W went down about 80 points. I agree that once you've broken 700 on CR and M, you may not show a big increase. His biggest reach schools superscored, so the end result was fine.
P.S. Isn't it great that I honestly CANNOT remember my S's test scores anymore? The college admissions process is over. Hooray!
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CardinalFang
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Posted: Fri Mar 21st, 2008 01:31 am |
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| I talked to my son when he got home from community college tonight. He says he's done with the SAT-- he's happy enough with his scores, though he thinks he could do better in math. I'm happy with his scores, though I also think he could do better in math. So that's that.
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Wendy (wjb)
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Posted: Fri Mar 21st, 2008 04:04 am |
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| Here's a contrary view. Your son is homeschooled, correct? On another board, I have read posts from parents of homeschooled students indicating that standardized test scores are more important for homeschooled students than for students who attend conventional schools: Since it's impossible for colleges to evaluate homeschooled applicants within the context of a class or an institution, standardized test scores substitute in part for the missing framework. So I would consider encouraging your son to retest, particularly since he thinks he could score higher. Last edited on Fri Mar 21st, 2008 04:05 am by Wendy (wjb)
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CardinalFang
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Posted: Fri Mar 21st, 2008 04:47 am |
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| Good point, Wendy.
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Wstrdg
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Posted: Fri Mar 21st, 2008 02:57 pm |
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While it's true that standardized test scores are especially helpful in evaluating homeschooled applicants, I don't agree that your son should retest for the SAT1. You have other, objective confirmation of his abilities, namely the track record he's earned at community college. And, I understand that CB testing is not particularly smooth for him, given the administrative headache of arranging accomodations for his LD.
I would encourage him to take subject tests in any areas that are strengths, like history, unless, of course, you would be duplicating a community college credit in the exact subject, like US History. If there is some overlap, but it's not an exact match, and if he's flipped through a couple of test prep guides and feels that the multiple choice questions are a snap, then the subject tests can be a fairly painless way to pump up the strength of his application.
Even in public schools, the subject tests are recommended/required despite the fact that the applicant may have a 5 on the AP exam in the same subject. Colleges are familiar with the subject tests, and it gives them something reassuring to hang their hat on.
If your son hasn't taken any of these, yet, I think he will be pleasantly surprised at how relatively painless they are: one hour of multiple choice q's, no essay!
Try not to have him take more than two at one sitting (three are possible).
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Deja
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Posted: Fri Mar 21st, 2008 04:14 pm |
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Wstrdg wrote:
Try not to have him take more than two at one sitting (three are possible).
My son is planning to take three on June 7 (US History, Bio, Math2).
Can he take them in any order that he wants? I'm thinking Math2, then Bio, then US History....
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CardinalFang
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Posted: Fri Mar 21st, 2008 04:22 pm |
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Yes, he can take them in any order he wants, and he can decide which order he wants on the day of the test.
He can also change his mind on the day of the test about how many tests he wants to take.
I had thought that my son needed to take three SAT IIs for Grinnell and Yale. I now see Yale is down to requiring two. Grinnell recommends three for homeschoolers because many homeschooolers don't have a lot of outside classes. However, my son will have over 90 credit-hours at community college, so two SAT IIs should be ample.
This is great news. It's not easy for any student to take three SAT IIs in one day, but for students granted extra time, it's not possible. So my son would've had to sit for tests on two different days. Now he doesn't. Hurray!
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Wendy (wjb)
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Posted: Fri Mar 21st, 2008 04:33 pm |
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| Deja: Is he certain he wants to take three all at once? For most kids, it's a lot. My son, an ace standardized test-taker, is done with the process. He took Math II C alone (he had finished the required curriculum) then in May took two more (after the AP tests in those subjects). He was very glad he didn't take three in a single morning and advises against it.
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Consolation
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Posted: Fri Mar 21st, 2008 06:11 pm |
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What does 90 credit hours at a community college translate to, in terms of comparison to HS students taking Ap and IB and Honors courses, though?
I know that community college systems vary, but the likelihood that top students from our local high schools would take academic courses at our local CC during HS is just about nil.
Cccasionally a talented student who ends up having to take a gap year or a year off during college for some reason may take a course there, but even then they are much more likely to take a course at the local state university. The CC does have some good vocational training that is not available elsewhere, but for regular academics it's not the usual choice. As I said, I know CCs vary widely, and yours may be very different.
But that variability is one of the reasons that more SAT IIs are recommended for those taking non-traditional paths. It makes it easier for adcoms to evaluate kids in comparison to those with a standard preparation.
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CardinalFang
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Posted: Fri Mar 21st, 2008 06:34 pm |
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I know that in some Eastern states the community colleges are not held in high repute, but things are different in California. Quite a few top students in California take their first two years at community college and then transfer to a University of California campus for their last two years. Some do this because they want smaller classes; some because they are younger and want to live at home for their first two years; many because of money-- community college is dirt cheap and UCs are expensive.
Therefore, California community colleges have a set of classes that are UC-transferable. These classes correspond to lower-division classes at UCs. Credits in those classes are guaranteed to be transferable to any UC. The UCs and the community colleges work together to make sure that those community college classes are rigorous enough. In some courses, the UC requirements are explicit. In one of my son's English classes, the professor announced in the first class that the students shouldn't expect an easy class; some considerable amount of writing had to be assigned, or the class wouldn't be UC-transferable. (Of course, the community college, as its name suggests, also serves other populations. It offers many remedial classes and vocational classes.)
At my son's community college, there are quite a few transfers to Berkeley, UCSD, UCLA and other UCs every year. Usually there are one or two transfers to Stanford as well.
When I write the counselor letter for my son's college applications, I will be explaining this. By the time he goes off to college, my son will have about enough credits to transfer as a junior to a UC, though there might be one or two distribution requirements he won't have satisfied. He does not want to transfer, though; he wants to go somewhere as a freshman.
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CarolynLawrence
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Posted: Fri Mar 21st, 2008 08:43 pm |
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CardinalFang,
Be sure, as you talk with college admissions folks, to make absolutely certain that they will treat your son as a freshman for admissions purposes. I've worked with a few students who had large amounts of credit at community colleges and found that when they went to apply as freshmen that some colleges were pretty adament about treating them as transfers, not freshmen. In some cases, this affected the college's willingness to provide four years of financial aid. At least one of these students was a homeschooled student. So, do be sure to ask directly if this will be an issue of every single college your son is considering, including the UC's if they end up on his list. Better to ask now, upfront, then be surprised later. Last edited on Fri Mar 21st, 2008 08:47 pm by CarolynLawrence
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Wstrdg
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Posted: Fri Mar 21st, 2008 08:56 pm |
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CardinalFang's cc district is probably "better" than the one in my county, but she's right about the Calif cc district. And I'd add that at our high school, the cc system is the place you go to get the advanced courses that our public high school can't afford to offer. We top out at Calc AB and only offer AP Env Sci, so those students who want advanced science and math are encourged to find it at the cc.
The cc's are really under alot of pressure in Calif. I think the lid's going to blow before long.
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CardinalFang
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Posted: Fri Mar 21st, 2008 09:08 pm |
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Good advice (on edit: about making sure that Fang Jr is treated as a freshman applicant rather than a transfer applicant). I have talked to some schools already, but Fang Jr's list keeps changing. I should make another round of calls to make sure.
Financial aid is not an issue for us. Nevertheless, I want Fang Jr. to be considered with the freshman applicants. For one thing, transfer applicants hear the decision later... after freshman admittees have already accepted and paid deposits.
I have a friend whose homeschooled son applied to various schools last year. Like Fang Jr, he had been taking community college classes. Most of his schools evaluated him as a freshman. He got a round of decisions before April 15th, and paid a deposit for one of the schools. Then, lo and behold, he got an acceptance from Reed on May 2nd!
Last edited on Sun Mar 23rd, 2008 06:42 pm by CardinalFang
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Consolation
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Posted: Fri Mar 21st, 2008 11:58 pm |
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Cardinalfang, somehow I had missed the fact that you were in California. I know that is a completely different scene from much of the rest of the country.
Our CC was until recently a "technical college." The state U system has been working to transform the TCs into CCs and get more students to start there and move into the "regular" campuses to finish. The idea is to get more kids who would not otherwise go to college, or graduate, to finish a 4-year degree. A very worthy goal.
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Deja
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Posted: Sat Mar 22nd, 2008 11:44 am |
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Wendy (wjb) wrote: Deja: Is he certain he wants to take three all at once? For most kids, it's a lot. My son, an ace standardized test-taker, is done with the process. He took Math II C alone (he had finished the required curriculum) then in May took two more (after the AP tests in those subjects). He was very glad he didn't take three in a single morning and advises against it.
Wendy, it hadn't occurred to me until reading this thread that he shouldn't take all three at one sitting...
I guess May 3 is the obvious time to take at least one of the tests. He hasn't looked at any SAT2 tests yet. I guess I need to buy that book? I'm thinking he should probably take the Math2 test on May 3, and then the other two on June 7. Once the AP tests are done, he should have the time to cram for them. I don't know, though...I guess we should look at that SAT2 book and then decide from looking at that which test he'd feel ready to take on May 3...
Thanks for the information. We definitely hadn't considered that he shouldn't be taking all three at once!!!!
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Wendy (wjb)
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Posted: Sat Mar 22nd, 2008 12:01 pm |
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deja: Is he finished with Precalculus? The best time to take Math II C is right after Precalc. And generally, you're right that the best time to take the others is right on the heels of the AP Exams. But even if your son takes SAT IIs right after the corresponding APs, he'll need to do some additional prep. The focus of the SAT IIs differs somewhat from that of the APs.
Just took a look at my old Amazon list: For prep my son used the "Official Study Guide for All SAT Subject Tests (Real SATS)" along with "Cracking the SAT Math 1 and 2 Subject Tests" and the REA SAT U.S. History book. He took Chemistry, not Bio, so no recommendations there.
Last edited on Sat Mar 22nd, 2008 12:08 pm by Wendy (wjb)
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