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leftcoast
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Posted: Wed Jan 16th, 2008 10:24 pm |
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The GC is wrong, plain and simple.
I would ask whether the school ranks, and where your daughter's GPA puts her. Top 10%? top 20%? (If the 95 average isn't at least top 20%, then the high school might have some serious grade inflation issues, which perhaps would impact college admissions negatively).
My d. is also test-challenged, but was admitted to Barnard, U. of Chicago, and UC Berkeley despite test scores below the median range for all of those schools -- so test scores aren't everything.
You might find the Princeton Review books helpful -- or use the Princeton Review web site online - http://www.princetonreview.com -- They have an "admissions selectivity" rating separate from "academic" rating for each school -- based on what you have said, I'd ball park your daughter as having "matches" of between 86-93 on their scale, with the schools at 85 or below being safeties. For example, Northeastern's selectivity rating is 90 - my daughter's SAT/ACT scores were about the same as Slewnior's, but she looked at Northeastern as safety.... and was admitted with an offer of $10K in merit aid. Another "safety" for my daughter, Goucher, has a selectivity ranking of 87 - in that case, after a visit, my daughter decided the school was not up to her personal standards and did not apply.
I don't think that these guidelines are perfect, but PR calculates those numbers from stats such as percentage admitted and typical score ranges & GPAs, so basically their analysis is a time saver -- because in the end you'd have to make a judgment based on the same data.
Is financial aid imperative for you? It's possible that the gc is trying to help you find colleges likely to offer significant merit aid -- at that point the equation would be different, and you might definitely be needing to hunt among lower tier colleges. Unfortunately, only the top, reachiest schools are well-endowed enough to promise to provide significant need-based grant aid for all their students, so if money is important then you do need to either look for colleges where your daughter will be near the top of the applicant pool or focus on your in-state publics.
Last edited on Sat Jan 19th, 2008 03:20 am by leftcoast
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limom
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| Joined: | Thu May 17th, 2007 |
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| Posts: | 16 |
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Posted: Thu Jan 17th, 2008 04:08 pm |
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thank you so much for directing me to the princeton review site. It came up with a very broad list of schools, including the ones that I had been hoping to hear suggested from the gc, as well as others that I will certainly consider.
financial aid would certainly be nice, but I am not counting on it. I don't think that played into the gc's thought process of directing me down. I know that the whole process seems to be a crap shot these days. I am constantly hearing stories about kids that didn't get in where they should and kids that got in were they shouldn't have had a shot. It seems that you have to visit several schools and keep an open mind.
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leftcoast
Member
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Posted: Sat Jan 19th, 2008 03:34 am |
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Just a warning -- do not trust the "Counselor-o-matic" tool at the Princeton Review site in terms of assessing "chances"... it seems to be all over the map, althought it is a good starting point for developing a broad list of schools. But I have found the scores that PR assigns the schools for selectivity to be fairly accurate, bearing in mind that a generalized number doesn't tell you what will happen in individual cases. (For example, my d. was accepted at colleges that were assigned ratings of 98, 97 & 96, but waitlisted at a college rated 93 -- but overall I still think those numbers are helpful for constructing a good college list of reaches, match schools and safeties).
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outwest
Member
| Joined: | Sun Mar 4th, 2007 |
| Location: | CA |
| Posts: | 548 |
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Posted: Sat Jan 19th, 2008 05:12 pm |
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Unfortunately, SAT scores won't get you into a college, but they can keep you out of some.
Your daughter sounds like a great person. My middle daughter was very similar. Her grades put her in the top ten percent. She had a few APs (not 5 by the end of Junior year, though!). Her SATs came in at 1190 (this was before the writing was added). She applied to 8 schools and was accepted to all of them. Granted, she did not apply to any top LACs, but she did get into a few of our top UC's. UC Irvine gave her a significant merit scholarship for her art.
I would tell your D to apply to two or three reach schools that she would really like to go to. Then choose a few middle and a few lower tiered that she would also be happy at. SATs are only a part of the equation.
Plan to have her take a prep class over the summer and test in the Fall. The extra time makes a difference. I say a prep class because it forces her to do it. Too many people have all the good intensions in the world to study over the summer, but somehow it rarely happens. If she is in an organized class then she will do it. For all the bad press the Princeton Review class gets, I still recommend it mostly because you take three full SAT practice tests under the same conditions as the real test. For someone with test anxiety, taking it several times relaxes them. My youngest Ds scores went up significantly between the first and second SAT testings.
As long as she has a list that is balanced between safeties and ultra reaches she should be fine. Make sure she visits and interviews at the reach schools! Your GC has put way too much emphasis on the PSAT, but it is a good reality check that some attention to the testing aspect of college admissions are in order. If your D took the AP tests and did well make sure to report them to the colleges. In the end I am sure she will have several wonderful options.
Last edited on Sat Jan 19th, 2008 05:44 pm by outwest
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Lupine
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| Joined: | Thu May 17th, 2007 |
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Posted: Sat Jan 19th, 2008 08:54 pm |
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Does your high school disclose class rankings or percentiles which would help put your daughter's average in context? That could help or hurt her.
At D's high school, pretty much without exception all of the kids in the top ten percent of the class have taken at least 7 AP or IB exams by graduation, and have weighted GPAs of 4.55 or higher. So even though a kid has what looks like an amazing 4.5 gpa, that doesn't put him in the top 10% of the class, and if the SAT/ACT scores are only very good (and not fabulous) that seems to confirm that. D has taken many challenging courses, but not all that she could have taken, so that's another point of differentiation with the very top students.
I'd also second the suggestion that your D take a look at the ACT option.
Have you visited any schools yet? We found that D was strongly drawn to some, and that some more highly ranked schools (all LACs) were less compelling once she'd visited.
Do you have any sense of how experienced and qualified your daughter's GC is with respect to college admissions? My high school GC was actively incompetent, and advised everyone to go to a junior college no matter the grades, SAT scores or interests. D's guidance counselor is known throughout the area for her fabulous understanding of different colleges and the admissions process. I take what she suggests very, very seriously, but I knew enough even at 17 to know that my GC should be ignored.
I tell my D that her job is to find four colleges that she would love to attend and that would love to have her as a student. From there she can add some that might be reachy, or that she's less sure about, but the base has to be places where there's a great mutual match.
Last edited on Sat Jan 19th, 2008 08:55 pm by Lupine
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CarolynLawrence
Administrator
| Joined: | Sun Mar 5th, 2006 |
| Location: | USA |
| Posts: | 3197 |
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Posted: Sat Jan 19th, 2008 09:33 pm |
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The first things all colleges consider are not test scores but grades in core academic areas (math, English, science, social science, foreign language) and the strength of the student's curriculum (how many years of core academics have they taken? have they challenged themselves with some AP or honors classes?) THEN they look at the test scores. Recommendations, interviews, extracurriculars also add to the picture, but most people think test scores are far more important than they often are.
Not sure if someone has yet mentioned it, but there are some fine colleges that don't even consider test scores if you don't want to submit them. They just focus on grades and other areas. You can find a list at http://www.fairtest.org Some great SAT optional schools include Bowdoin, Connectictutt College, Bates, Mt. Holyoke, Hamilton, Bard, Sarah Lawrence but there are many others. Assuming your daughter has taken a fairly rigorous curriculum, these schools would be mighty impressed with her grades.
In addition to these schools, there are many others who tend to downplay test scores in the admissions process, so no student with excellent grades is ever out of the running just on test scores alone. (By the way, please tell your daughter that being in the 80th percentile means her scores were significantly better than most, and remind her that the MEDIAN SAT scores nationally are in the very low 500's)
Finally, keep in mind that there is an entire year of intellectual development between the PSAT in October of junior year and the SAT in October or November of senior year. Most students who retake the SAT in senior year will find they go up, even if they haven't prepped at all over the summer. Prep evem a little, and scores can go up quite a bit. Remember the SAT is designed for SENIORS not juniors, so be sure to have your daughter plan to take it again in the fall.
The bottomline is this: the guidance counselor shouldn't be saying the game is over --- it has only just begun for your daughter, and there is absolutely no reason at all to believe that she won't end up with some fabulous choices next year.
Last edited on Sat Jan 19th, 2008 09:39 pm by CarolynLawrence
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