| Author | Post |
|---|
mackinaw
Member
| Joined: | Mon Mar 6th, 2006 |
| Location: | Michigan |
| Posts: | 776 |
| Mana: |    |
|
Posted: Wed Oct 17th, 2007 03:25 pm |
|
Business Week article:
http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/07_43/b4055063.htm?chan=top+news_top+news+index_top+story
"I Can Get Your Kid into an Ivy"
"Michele Hernandez boasts that 95% of her teenage clients are accepted by their first-choice school. Her price: As much as $40,000 a student. . . .
My answer: I would pay zilch because there are no guarantees.
Last edited on Wed Oct 17th, 2007 03:26 pm by mackinaw
|
WestrnMom
Super Moderator
| Joined: | Fri May 26th, 2006 |
| Location: | West Coast, USA |
| Posts: | 1161 |
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Wed Oct 17th, 2007 06:18 pm |
|
Absolutely nothing. Am I in the minority in not wanting my children to go to an Ivy? I think they are overrated unless the student is a strong match for a particular school or program. Maybe it's from growing up in a Western state, but I never thought of the Ivies as superior to schools like UCLA, Berkeley, or Stanford.
|
Shennie
Member
|
Posted: Wed Oct 17th, 2007 06:32 pm |
|
| I think there are a lot of great colleges out there. I never felt that the boys HAD to get into any one specific college, Ivy or otherwise. And $40,000 is almost a year's worth of expenses. I sure wouldn't spend that kind of money just trying to get in.
|
scoop
Member
| Joined: | Wed Oct 4th, 2006 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 546 |
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Wed Oct 17th, 2007 06:53 pm |
|
| My friend just dropped that article off in my mailbox. That money doesn't cover four years of hand holding to get through the Ivy. It's about more than getting in..it's finding the place where you will have a successful four or more years. I think too much emphasis is placed on getting in (not by the people on AA) and not enough on how you will do if you actually get there.
|
Fireflyscout
Member
| Joined: | Sun Mar 5th, 2006 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 174 |
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Wed Oct 17th, 2007 08:50 pm |
|
| Nada. Too much money, too much stress, no one around here really gives a hoot for them (doubt most could name more than three).
|
hummingbird
Member
|
Posted: Wed Oct 17th, 2007 10:30 pm |
|
| I'm with you, WestrnMom.
|
WestrnMom
Super Moderator
| Joined: | Fri May 26th, 2006 |
| Location: | West Coast, USA |
| Posts: | 1161 |
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Wed Oct 17th, 2007 10:53 pm |
|
Scoop, in talking to friends whose children have gone to or are attending Ivies, most are completely stressed out trying to maintain the type of grades they got in high school against enormous competition. The ones who were the least stressed were at Dartmouth. I have no idea why. Highest stress was at HYP.
|
Lderochi
Member
| Joined: | Sun Mar 5th, 2006 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 300 |
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Thu Oct 18th, 2007 01:42 am |
|
And, it's free. 
I don't know about "free". If you check my Amazon college guide book purchases over the period 2003-2007 you'll see a healthy contribution to the economy. And thank God I didn't have a pay-per-minute internet plan at the time!
|
Descartes
Super Moderator
|
Posted: Thu Oct 18th, 2007 12:17 pm |
|
It is not to be wondered at. She has a 95% success rate with schools of "first choice", but also gets to say what the first choice should be.
What I do wonder is this: if Suzy wants to go to Harvard but Ms. Hernandez isn't reasonably sure she'll get accepted I can only assume she strongly recommends another school to Suzy. Given the high fee that her parents are paying for this advice, will Suzy ignore it? Probably not...and no one will ever know if she could have been a successful applicant. Will Suzy be happy? Probably. Will Ms. Hernandez be happy? Almost certainly. But in this process something is lost--taking a reasonable chance--that was given away along with the high fee.
I suspect that many of her former clients could be at another school right now if they had only risked a little more than what she pressured them into avoiding. And that statistic is, of course, unknowable.
|
outwest
Member
| Joined: | Sun Mar 4th, 2007 |
| Location: | CA |
| Posts: | 540 |
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Sat Oct 20th, 2007 02:35 am |
|
Westcoast bias here, too. I certainly wouldn't pay to have someone squeeze a student in. I think a good point was made, though. Getting in is one thing, but getting through is another. It has always been interesting to me that so much attention is placed on the Ivy's. I know they're terrific schools, but aren't they better for grad school then for undergrad? You can get into them for grad school from any undergrad, as long as you've done outstandingly well, that is.
Last edited on Sat Oct 20th, 2007 02:45 am by outwest
|
PrimetimeMom
Member
| Joined: | Mon Mar 6th, 2006 |
| Location: | Los Angeles |
| Posts: | 158 |
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Sat Oct 20th, 2007 05:06 am |
|
The two most unhappiest students at colleges that we know are at ivys that they chose to attend for the prestige factor. One is transferring out after the first semester, the other is plodding through and unsatisfied with their school.
Fit is the best determination of success at college IMO.
|
outwest
Member
| Joined: | Sun Mar 4th, 2007 |
| Location: | CA |
| Posts: | 540 |
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Sat Oct 20th, 2007 02:58 pm |
|
Yes, I know a kid who went to Harvard and had to leave Junior year to recoup. His parents were beside themselves. He did take a semester off, go back and finish, but expressed how he wished he had chosen a smaller, more intimate school. I remember when he was a senior wondering how this sensitive genius would cope with such a school. Again, I think fit is what is important.
Last edited on Sat Oct 20th, 2007 03:00 pm by outwest
|
Kayleigh_9109
Member
|
Posted: Sat Oct 20th, 2007 03:46 pm |
|
I would hope my parents would pay nothing... I have no interest in going to any Ivies, at least not for Undergrad... Now if I could get in for Law School that'd be a different thing..
None of the Ivies have anything that interest me, except for them being so well-known, but that isn't even that important to me... I'll be just fine with a lesser known school that fits me and actually has stuff I am interested in.
|
outwest
Member
| Joined: | Sun Mar 4th, 2007 |
| Location: | CA |
| Posts: | 540 |
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Sun Oct 21st, 2007 12:10 am |
|
Exactly, Kayleigh. And then when grad school comes around you can look at them. I think that's when their names will help somewhat.
|
leftcoast
Member
|
Posted: Sun Oct 21st, 2007 12:06 pm |
|
if Suzy wants to go to Harvard but Ms. Hernandez isn't reasonably sure she'll get accepted I can only assume she strongly recommends another school to Suzy That's true. You might have noticed that the first kid profiled in the Business Week article, following the advice he was given, applied to Haverford -- excellent college, not an Ivy;
Ms. Hernandez is actually a nice person; at the end of my d's junior year in high school, I got into an email exchange with her, gave her my d's stats & interests, and asked about some colleges my d. was interested in. Ms. Hernandez kindly emailed me back (no charge) and told me that it would be a waste of time to apply to college B with my d's SAT scores -- she said they wouldn't even look at my d. -- and she suggested some alternative colleges.
My d. had no interest in the alternatives -- they were logical suggestions for my d's interests, but my d. ended up very sure that she wanted an urban environment. So she applied to the schools that best fit her desires.
My D is now attending the college Ms. Hernandez said would not look at her, as an RD admit.
It isn't that Ms. Hernandez's advice was bad -- it was very sound advice, but also the advice of someone who was playing it safe based on experience that is skewed toward kids coming from very privileged backgrounds & highly competitive high school. So I doubt Ms. H. could really weigh in the California public school factor (I think that many colleges look at test scores "in context") -- and her habit of aiming for colleges where there is a 95% certainty of admission probably means that she doesnt usually think through the nuances of the long-shots.
The point is -- whatever she charges, she probably is pretty good at targeting the best fit, highest quality college where her clients are most likely to get in -- but in the course of doing that, she is going to dissuade them from applying to reaches.
And you can't get into a college where you don't apply. So in the end, Ms. H. probably dissuades a lot of kids who could have gotten into Ivies from even applying. There may be some very wealthy parents paying a lot of money in order for their kids to give up on a dream without even trying.
|
WestrnMom
Super Moderator
| Joined: | Fri May 26th, 2006 |
| Location: | West Coast, USA |
| Posts: | 1161 |
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Sun Oct 21st, 2007 02:55 pm |
|
Leftcoast, does that mean she doesn't believe in the concept of Reach Schools?
|
Alumother
Member
| Joined: | Fri Mar 24th, 2006 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 201 |
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Sun Oct 21st, 2007 03:22 pm |
|
I have a daughter at an Ivy. She loves it. The academics are tough, she's no longer a 4.0UW student lol, but she's in what they call the top quintile at a school that has a stated policy of grade deflation. The academics, excuse me please for saying so, are absolutely phenomenal.
She was clearly a candidate for this. She is wildly disciplined and loves to study and loves going to school and is smart enough as are many to go to this school. Her added characteristic that made it right for her is toughness. Sure, she has meltdowns, but she recoups faster than anyone I know and always has since she was a baby. Luckily I didn't have to pay $40,000 for her to be accepted.
My son is a less obvious candidate for a school like this. He's just as smart, as are many kids. But he really doesn't like to study stuff that he is told to study. He will study on his own, but he never took to the school thing the way my D did. So would I pay $40,000 for him to get into an Ivy? If I thought that $40,000 would guarantee him a happy future, sure. But that is just not clear. First of all all Ivies are different. So I'd have to be able to specify which one. Second, even that one I might specify might not be correct. So no. I wouldn't pay $40,000 for guaranteed Ivy admission.
However, would I pay $40,000 for a guarantee that my son will get into a college that challenges his so far unchallenged brain and where he finds a cohort of wonderful friends and an adorable sweet smart girlfriend and where he is has a great education and emerges in 4 years with prospects of an engaging career that rewards him at the level of expectation he has set for himself?
Of course.
And I'd like to buy the Brooklyn Bridge too please....But we can all try our best to get our kids the best possible shot at all of the above. It's just not a dollars in results out kind of proposition.
|
leftcoast
Member
|
Posted: Sun Oct 21st, 2007 06:36 pm |
|
Westrnmom, I think that Ms. Hernandez has the experience to know when the colleges we all say are a "reach" for everyone are not a "reach" for her clients, but if she is boasting of a 95% success rate... she is going to play it safe.
In her defense, the reason I was corresponding with her is that I had written to her about one of her books -- I think that the information in her books was very helpful. I don't recall the exact title, but she has a book that is more of a how-to version of "A is for Admission" that I felt very was extremely useful when I was guiding my d. I did not agree with all the strategies or advice laid out -- but it helped to be able to see what she advised and adjust some of those ideas for my d's situation. "A is for Admission", in turn, was extremely helpful in helping my son realize that he neither wanted to attend an Ivy nor was likely to be admitted, despite encouragement from his teachers -- so it certainly saved on wasted application fees.
So we did not pay $40K or even $1 to Ms. H for advice... but all told I probably spent about $30 on her books, and that information in combination with info received from other sources was part of the piece of the puzzle that enabled my d. to get into what I thought was a super-reach college.
But I didn't promise a 95% success rate. I could insist that my d. start by erecting a good, strong safety net and then let her go ahead and attempt to leap as high as she wanted, knowing that she was likely to fall -- an apt analogy since my d. used to be an acrobat -- I guess when it comes down to it, the first skill a good acrobat needs is learning how to fall without getting hurt.
People who are able and willing to pay $40K to get whatever they want probably don't handle shortfalls and near-misses very well. So maybe they are happy paying an expert who will choose the college and ensure that their kid gets in. After all, the process most of the parents who post here follow isn't exactly free of anxiety -- we stress every step of the way.
So it is quite possible that Ms. H's clients get what they want. But I don't think they get the admissions advantage that they think, since Ms. H. has also put a good deal of her knowledge and experience in books that are readily available to the rest of us.
|
OneSeniorMom
Member
| Joined: | Sat Oct 6th, 2007 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 13 |
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Tue Oct 23rd, 2007 10:04 pm |
|
OK, I'll byte, I have sometime to kill today. I was thinking out loud I would not pay $40K to see if my D has a chance at these prestige colleges. I'll just pay the $100 per application to find our her chance. So let's say, 10 private schools is equivalent to $1000. It's still a lot cheaper than $40K.
OT, Alumother, on the subject "an adorable sweet smart girlfriend ", D finally been asked to go to homecoming dance. In the past she went with her female friends. D is a little picky when it comes to boys, ie not boys crazy, so I was worried she might be "dateless for homecoming ". He is cute(her friends think so too), plays in a band, and very nice. I'm all tickle pink. Just a date, not boyfriend but a step in the right direction.
|
Daaaad
Member
| Joined: | Sat Jun 3rd, 2006 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 104 |
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Tue Oct 23rd, 2007 11:22 pm |
|
While all this discussion is very interesting and enlightening, I want Mac to do us all a big favor and take down the link to that article and kill this thread.
Why?
We all get Carolyn for free now and if she sees this, she may start charging...
|
Current time is 06:37 am | Page: 1 2   |
|
