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mackinaw
Member
| Joined: | Mon Mar 6th, 2006 |
| Location: | Michigan |
| Posts: | 784 |
| Mana: |    |
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Posted: Wed Oct 24th, 2007 02:54 pm |
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Yes, I may have started us on the wrong path here. But only a SuperModerator can delete a thread! A big difference between "our" advisor and Hernandez is that ours isn't in it only for the money (and an absurd amount at that) and is not going to "guarantee" admission to a particular set of schools through a process of selecting only the kids who have an initially high probability of success.
I'm currently advising my daughter who is in process of applying to business schools, where she wants to take her background in industrial design and concern for green design to a different level, namely a more strategic one in business and industry. It appears that many MBA applicants rely on a rapidly growing set of business school admissions advisors, who will help applicants develop an application strategy, prep for exams, fill gaps in their backgrounds, write their resumes, and edit and package their essays. Ain't no way in hell my daughter would sign onto one of those services. I find myself once again plumbing the web for information about programs, admissions, careers, financing, and so on. Somehow I think she'll succeed on her own, with a little help from me and her mom.
Last edited on Wed Oct 24th, 2007 02:57 pm by mackinaw
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orchestramom
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| Joined: | Thu Mar 9th, 2006 |
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| Posts: | 113 |
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Posted: Wed Oct 24th, 2007 08:48 pm |
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| speaking of "our advisor" have we had any word from Carolyn? I have been thinking about her and our other SoCal friends and sending prayers and good thoughts that all is well with them....
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Consolation
Member
| Joined: | Mon Apr 9th, 2007 |
| Location: | USA |
| Posts: | 486 |
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Posted: Fri Nov 2nd, 2007 04:28 pm |
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outwest wrote: I know they're terrific schools, but aren't they better for grad school then for undergrad? You can get into them for grad school from any undergrad, as long as you've done outstandingly well, that is.
The Ivies are not all the same. Some of them *reputedly* put more emphasis on undergraduate education than others (Yale, Brown, Dartmouth, and Princeton). Some have very few graduate departments (Brown, Dartmouth) while others are true universities with grad departments in just about everything (Yale, Harvard, Cornell, U Penn). Some are more generally academic, some are more pre-professional.
On a somewhat related note--not directed to outwest's post--I really have to disagree with the people who say that "any" kid can get a "great" education anywhere: something that I've heard a lot from people who want to reassure themselves. (Not here, so much, as in my "real life." )
It depends on the kid, on the fit, and on the subject matter. For example, a brilliant kid who thrives in a highly intellectual academic environment and who wants to study a highly-intellectual subject and pursue a true liberal arts education is NOT going to get a great education at any school. That kid is not going to be satisfied by the discussion in classes where the other students wouldn't have been able to cut it in honors high school classes. That kid is looking for a challenge, and isn't going to find it in classes that make her eyes glaze over. And while yes, there are very bright kids at every school for one reason or another, the likelihood that your classes will be filled with them is simply greater when you attend a school that admits mostly that type of kid. And while your professor may be brilliant, he or she is going to have to teach to the level of the students in the class.
The same thing can be said of any kid with a strong bent in one direction or another. The level of the classes has to be appropriate.
Yes, there are some, perhaps many, kids who could get what would be a "great" education for them anywhere. But there are a fair number for whom that would not be the case.
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Alumother
Member
| Joined: | Fri Mar 24th, 2006 |
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| Posts: | 201 |
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Posted: Fri Nov 2nd, 2007 05:52 pm |
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Consolation - I have gotten seriously flamed for saying something similar in other places. My belief is that for kids interested in science it is actually true that there are many many places that they can get a good education. For kids interested in for example philosophy, it's harder.
That kind of topic needs either a group of kids all of whom get it and love it, or a great professor and some great graduate students who will let an undergraduate join in.
Face it. Not many people can read a paragraph of Kant and understand what on earth the guy was saying. Even fewer will want to. I remember in college once staring at a paragraph for 2 hours. Finally, I had a brief physical sensation of comprehension. It had passed when I woke up.
So for some kids, they can't get a great education anywhere. But it still doesn't have to be an Ivy.
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WestrnMom
Super Moderator
| Joined: | Fri May 26th, 2006 |
| Location: | West Coast, USA |
| Posts: | 1188 |
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Posted: Fri Nov 2nd, 2007 07:52 pm |
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It's still a matter of fit. A student who is studying the humanities who is at the intellectual level and has the stats to gain admission to an elite school is going to prefer that school over an easier college. But a student who is not quite there yet shouldn't have to give up on a major just because an Ivy or elite is out of reach. The discussions may not be at the same intellectual level but the student can make the most of what is available.
The differences between elites and the other colleges may be in how students are taught, but there are also differences in the students themselves. Not every student is an intellectual who enjoys bouncing around esoteric ideas. I wonder if students who only go for the elites are doing so by name or by fit. If they really spend the time exploring the higher level schools the way other students explore the schools that are not big name universities. After all, don't we already assume we know what HYPS are going to be like vs someone who applies to a small out of state college they haven't heard much about before.
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Consolation
Member
| Joined: | Mon Apr 9th, 2007 |
| Location: | USA |
| Posts: | 486 |
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Posted: Fri Nov 2nd, 2007 08:06 pm |
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Alumother wrote: Consolation - I have gotten seriously flamed for saying something similar in other places. My belief is that for kids interested in science it is actually true that there are many many places that they can get a good education. For kids interested in for example philosophy, it's harder.
That kind of topic needs either a group of kids all of whom get it and love it, or a great professor and some great graduate students who will let an undergraduate join in.
Face it. Not many people can read a paragraph of Kant and understand what on earth the guy was saying. Even fewer will want to. I remember in college once staring at a paragraph for 2 hours. Finally, I had a brief physical sensation of comprehension. It had passed when I woke up.
So for some kids, they can't get a great education anywhere. But it still doesn't have to be an Ivy.
Kant...I'm totally with you!
Yes, I agree that it needn't be an Ivy.
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Consolation
Member
| Joined: | Mon Apr 9th, 2007 |
| Location: | USA |
| Posts: | 486 |
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Posted: Fri Nov 2nd, 2007 08:19 pm |
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WestrnMom wrote: The differences between elites and the other colleges may be in how students are taught, but there are also differences in the students themselves. Not every student is an intellectual who enjoys bouncing around esoteric ideas. I wonder if students who only go for the elites are doing so by name or by fit. If they really spend the time exploring the higher level schools the way other students explore the schools that are not big name universities. After all, don't we already assume we know what HYPS are going to be like vs someone who applies to a small out of state college they haven't heard much about before.
I think that there are certainly some students who are drawn to the big names simply because they are big names--probably a high proportion of those kids are on That Other Board  --but I've found that most of the kids I know who have applied to the big name schools, both HYPS and the other elite LACs and universities, actually do pick and choose among them according to various factors of importance to them, and don't assume that they are all alike.
It will be interesting to see what happens to early action at Yale and Stanford this year. Will a lot of those kids who are set on HYPS at all costs apply early to Y or S, even though they really would prefer H or P ?
Will Y and S be able to determine who really wants to go there, as opposed to who is gaming the system? We shall see...
Last edited on Fri Nov 2nd, 2007 08:43 pm by Consolation
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