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Movinmom
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Posted: Sat May 5th, 2007 12:11 am |
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| My junior D would like to graduate next January and spend the second half of the year in Zambia - the first month working in an orphanage, the second in the medical clinic and the third in whichever one she liked better. We sat down with the school and have worked out a plan that would allow her to complete all of her requirements for graduation. Her senior fall she would take - college course in English; college course in History; AP bio; Ap calculus; AP government, religion (required by her school), and independent study french 5. She does not want to take a gap year; but she does want to spend a significang amount of time volunteering in this type of a program. She can still graduate and attend the ceremonies. From the HS end of things, this works. My concern is whether this will adversely affect her college application process and how to answer that question. Most of the schools she will apply to require four years of a number of subjects. She will have 3 1/2 of all major subjects. If she could sit down with someone and explain the situation they could understand better why she wants to do this and that she really has challenged herself to the hardest curriculum available at her small girls' school. However, she will not get a chance to sit down with admissions reps and will likely have to ask her guidance counsellor to call, or she will have to call or email. We are concerned that she will get a very generic - it depends - type of answer. Several posters have said in other posts about students graduating early that a one page letter of explanation is appropriate explaining why. In her case, if she knew that her plan could jeopardize her admission, she probably would not do it so I think she really wants to find out how it will be viewed. Suggestions? Last edited on Sat May 5th, 2007 12:15 am by Movinmom
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CarolynLawrence
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Posted: Sat May 5th, 2007 01:42 am |
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Will your daughter actually receive her diploma in January from the high school? If so, I suspect that is all many colleges will want to see.
There are, of course, many colleges that will take "early admissions" applications at the end of junior year. Some that I can think of off the top of my head are: Whitman College, Oberlin, Reed, Univ. of Southern California, Harvard, Carnegie Mellon, Emory, but there are others. In a lot of cases, they ask that the student will still receive their high school diploma at the end of the first year of college.
I don't know for certain, but I expect that graduating early will not be a major problem for most schools. I'd recommend that you and your daughter draw up a list of potential schools she might want to apply to next fall then call the admissions office (speak to an admissions officer, not the office secretary!) and explain the plan your daughter has in mind. They'll be able to tell you how they'll treat this situation. It may vary from college to college, but it is highly likely that it won't be a huge issue at enough schools that she'll be fine.
Last edited on Sat May 5th, 2007 02:01 am by CarolynLawrence
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mominva
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Posted: Sat May 5th, 2007 02:30 am |
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It sounds like the HS is very supportive. Do you think they can arrange some 'distance learning' independant study for your daughter so she can get those other .5 credits in math and english?
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Movinmom
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Posted: Sat May 5th, 2007 02:40 am |
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| THanks for the responses. The HS actually gives her one year of hs credit for one semester of college. So, for the hs she will have four years of English and history and meet all of her requirements to graduate. For the colleges that require four years of all subjects (such as Brown), she would have to take distance learning in math, science, english, history and french and that would be pretty impossible to do and get the volunteer experience that she would like. One of the reasons she wants to do this second semester is that she perceives a lot of kids check out second semester senior year and she would like to use that time differently. Last edited on Sat May 5th, 2007 02:41 am by Movinmom
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Movinmom
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Posted: Sat May 5th, 2007 02:43 am |
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| Carolyn, I thought my D should make those calls and introduce herself and ask for the admissions rep for our state. Do you think she should do that or should I call and not give a name, unless asked?
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mominva
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Posted: Sat May 5th, 2007 04:07 am |
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Movinmom,
I would think that if the HS transcript reflects 4 full year credits of each subject then it wouldn't matter if she earned both halves of 1 credit in the same semester.
I'm assuming that the 1 HS credit = 1 college semester is stated somewhere on the HS profile.
I wouldn't mention it ,unless it came up in an interview, until it was included on the application.
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leftcoast
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Posted: Sat May 5th, 2007 09:08 am |
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I think it is a marvelous idea, and I think it will help your daughter at most colleges -- and I think she can easily explain it in a one page attachment to her applications.
The reason I think it is a good idea is that most seniors succomb to some degree of senioritis during the 2nd semester of senior year -- and colleges are well aware of that. They make their decisions with no more than the 1st semester grades in any case -- so your daughter will have the same "package" as anyone else.
The trip to Zambia is something that will definitely ratchet up interest level in your daughter's application -- and it shows a true commitment to community service. If she's premed or interested in a health career... then working in a 3rd world medical clinic obviously is a valuable experience.
My daughter spent a semester junior year in Russia and that really cut deeply into the academics she was able to complete in 4 years -- she had only 2 years of lab sciences (bio + chem), and math only through Algebra II.... yet was accepted to Barnard, Chicago & Berkeley. This is particularly significant because my d's ACT/SAT scores were below average for those schools. I think that the semester abroad added more to her application than it detracted -- though in her case I also think that the Russian language study was an added hook.
The only piece of information missing from your question is what colleges your daughter is looking at -- there are probably some colleges that will appreciate her choices more than others.
Of course your d. will have to get an early start so that all apps & teacher recommendations have been submitted. and all interviews have taken place before she leaves -- plus you will need to follow through for her with the high school, spring semester, to make sure the g.c. follows up with sending midyear reports on time.
I don't think is necessary for your daughter to ask the admissions reps what to do, but definitely if she does want to send out some feelers, she should be making the calls, not you.
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outwest
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Posted: Sat May 5th, 2007 03:55 pm |
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I think Carolyn's advise was very good. Call a few colleges and find out how they'd view that.
I graduated after the first semester of high school, too. My diploma reads December for date of graduation. Of course, that was way back in the dark ages. I was accepted to all three ( ) colleges I applied to. I remember I just wanted to be done already and I had finished all my credits by the end of Junior year. I just had to take government, econ and english that first semester. I spent the second semester working and didn't do anything nearly as interesting as your daughter is planning to do. When it came time to go to college in the Fall I was more then ready to go because I had had a good break from school. I also attended the graduation ceremonies in June. I think that's an important rite of passage. If she can attend the ceremonies that would be even better.
Things have changed since the 1970's though and I do think it important that you call the colleges and ask about the missing english. What a very brave young woman to want to go across the world at 17 (or will she be 18)?
Another thought...
Is there any way she could do that semester first semester and return to her school second? It would make applying difficult, but may be viewed more as a study abroad opportunity.
All that said, I think your DD should do whatever she wants to do. If the colleges don't like what she did then choose other colleges. It is her life and college admissions shouldn't dictate what she does. There will be plenty of schools that think this is very neat and make her stand out from the crowd.
Last edited on Sat May 5th, 2007 04:00 pm by outwest
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CarolynLawrence
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Posted: Sat May 5th, 2007 04:48 pm |
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Movinmom wrote: Carolyn, I thought my D should make those calls and introduce herself and ask for the admissions rep for our state. Do you think she should do that or should I call and not give a name, unless asked?
No need to be secretive about it, in my opinion. Either she can call and ask, or she can ask during any college visits you'll be making. i think it would be best to talk verbally instead of relying on emails, though. Just make sure she is asking an admissions officer, not the office secretary. You should be able to get the name of your regional rep off of the website.Last edited on Sat May 5th, 2007 04:50 pm by CarolynLawrence
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mathmom
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Posted: Sat May 5th, 2007 10:14 pm |
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Can she do an elective in English or some kind of self study option if there are colleges that want to see four years of English? I think that's likely to be the only sticking point from some colleges.
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outwest
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Posted: Sat May 5th, 2007 10:52 pm |
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Once again, that BYU on line hs program could come in handy here.
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HijinksAndSue
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Posted: Sun May 6th, 2007 02:20 am |
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Movinmom,
Although I am not a college admissions officer (nor do I play one on TV NOR did I stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night), I frankly got goosebumps reading about your daughter's plans for the second semester and can't imagine that most schools would not feel the same way.
Especially since she clearly has such a strong and passionate commitment to public service, that I would think her college choices would reflect that and she'd find a great match ...
Again, though my own college experiences were long, long ago (Class of '77), my own were similar to those of Outwest (with whom I apparently have a lot in common! ) ... I was accepted ED to Amherst, but by the end of my first semester senior year I had just had it with high school, or at least MY school (12 and a half years there).
The only credit I hadn't finished was English, so we contacted Amherst first and they said as long as I finished my requirements and got my HS diploma, they didn't have a problem with my leaving school to pursue independent studies. My school agreed to let me take college courses nearby (Hunter College) and I actually placed out of required English classes there into a Senior English writing workshop. Also took chorus and studio art. Yeah, not terribly demanding, but was also working every day as an intern down at a radio station ... NOTHING in comparison to what your daughter is planning.
So I think that shows that you just never know what a college will or won't accept ... but hopefully the ones that are flexible and take everyone's situation on a case-by-case basis are also the ones your daughter wants to look at ...
Good luck and congrats on your clearly terrific kid!
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leftcoast
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Posted: Sun May 6th, 2007 02:32 am |
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My daughter's roommate at Barnard also did the same thing -- she, too, was sick of high school and elected to graduate early. She was an ED admit so she did exactly what Hijinks did -- contacted the college admissions office and cleared it with them.
Obviously its easier to do that if you already have been admitted to colleges -- so maybe one additional piece of advice for Movinmom's daughter is to apply to some colleges with EA or rolling admissions, just to be sure.
I'd also add that any college that would reject a kid who wanted to spend a semester doing community service in Zambia because of a missed semester of senior English is probably NOT a college that Movinmom's daughter would want to attend in any case.
Last edited on Sun May 6th, 2007 02:35 am by leftcoast
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CarolynLawrence
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Posted: Sun May 6th, 2007 05:30 pm |
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One other thought occurred to me: Since English *might* be the sticking point at some schools, could she possibly do the 4th year of English in summer school this summer in some way? (Community college course perhaps?)
I think Leftcoast is right: Any school that would have a problem with your daughter's plans probably isn't one she'd want to attend. But, I can think of quite a few schools who would be VERY interested in a kid who is so motivated and independent.
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Movinmom
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Posted: Mon May 7th, 2007 11:46 am |
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| Thank you for the responses and suggestions. It is also nice to hear the reaction. D and I have done some international volunteerism which did spark her interest; and she is interested in African cultures...but, she would be quick to say that she also benefits from this experience - it is not all purely altruistic. She is so sick of high school, and has been for a while. Having this plan has kept her focused and excited. She also feels that it is bizarre that the first time kids live independently and have to figure themselves out, life out, etc. they also should be pouring themselves into academics. It all costs so much she wants to be ready to learn and feels like living independently, while also contributing and learning, would put her in a better personal situation for college. I learned from my older D that there are many nice colleges for every student so I am of the opinion expressed by some posters that if they don't want her b/c she chose that route, so be it. She shares this too, for the most part, but I think she wants to be reassured she won't get blanked b/c of it. If she finds a school that she really loves and applies ED, gets in and the approaches them (great idea), that would be perfect. She wouldn't find out until Dec so we will scout out reactions and then see if an ED school emerges this summer. Thanks for the feedback!
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mom61
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Posted: Mon May 7th, 2007 06:46 pm |
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I spoke with a friend whose D did something similar 2 yrs ago. They found that the community college classes that were taken in 1 semester were counted as a full year. Thus the history class and the english class are consider the equivalent of a full yr of high school curriculum. She had her plan in place for several years so she was able to take a few summer school classes at the community college. She also switched high schools the fall of senior year to one on block schedule to get the required govt/econ sequence done. Our schools flip flop them since they are both on semester. Her previous high school would not allow her to take them at the same time.
The disclaimer is that she is in Ca and only applied to Ca public universities. She was admiitted to Berkeley along with some lesser know UC's.
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leftcoast
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Posted: Mon May 7th, 2007 09:47 pm |
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I was admitted to the UC system many years ago (1970) as an out-of-stater with only 3 years of high school English, because I graduated a year early. I know that the system required 4 years of English at the time, and that I simply ignored that and applied anyway..... however, my guess is that I came in via the "eligibility by examination" path to admission. That is, my SAT scores were really good by 1970 standards (rather unremarkable by 2007 standards - I think I scored generally in the high 600's).
As to Movinmom's daughter -- check out the Colleges that Change Lives list at http://www.ctcl.com/ There's also a list somewhere that "ranks" colleges based on a "social value" index, such as how much they encourage volunteering and how many of their graduates join the Peace Corps -- but I don't remember where that is, maybe Carolyn knows.
I don't think your daughter should necessarily go for an ED school -- EA (nonbinding) may be a better option, because it is quite possible that your daughter will experience some changes in perspective while in Zaire that may also impact her educational goals -- and the school that seems perfect before she goes may seem all wrong when she gets back. I know that my daughter felt that her stay in Russia really changed her, and that she was a different person when she got back. EA would actually allow your daughter to apply to several colleges and get early answers -- and still have many options open when she gets back -- she can submit RD apps early, as well.
Of course, one issue will be that your daughter won't be able to make last minute spring visits to campuses -- so you will need to get any college visiting completed this summer.
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Movinmom
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Posted: Tue May 8th, 2007 02:58 am |
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| Leftcoast that is a good point. I mentioned it to my D and she agreed - she likely will change a lot during that time. We are trying to assemble a list and hopefully a few EA will emerge.
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leftcoast
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Posted: Tue May 8th, 2007 09:19 am |
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I think the other ranking list -- the one that includes a factor of how well each college fosters public service -- is the Washington Monthly list:
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2006/0609.collegechart.html -- I'm not sure how helpful this is, but it might be a little bit helpful in pinpointing colleges that will really value a kid with a strong commitment to service -- certainly it reshuffles the US News deck.
Here is the LAC list:
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2006/0609.libarts.html
There is also a National University list, but I don't think that is going to be as useful.
Here's a list of the Peace Corps "Top Producing Colleges"; this one is broken out into large, medium and small schools:
http://www.peacecorps.gov/news/resources/stats/pdf/schools2006.pdf
I don't mean to imply that your daughter needs to look for these sorts of colleges -- I just thought it was an interesting way of looking at things, both to help find a school that will be a good fit in terms of the types of students who attend, and one where the ad coms are likely to think, "oh wow, cool!" when they see the Zaire plan. I really do think that whatever happens, your daughter ought to include a "Why I'm going to Zaire" essay along with her apps, either as the main essay or a supplemental.
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Movinmom
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Posted: Tue May 15th, 2007 02:33 am |
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| Thank you all for the great ideas/suggestions. I am feeling much better about this plan.
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