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hummingbird
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Posted: Wed Apr 18th, 2007 05:32 pm |
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Most schools indicate that their minimum requirements are just that - a minimum, and competitive candidates should be well above the minimums if possible. Due to scheduling problems (and admittedly some ignorance on our part), our son will only have 2 years of foreign language. He's taking Japanese - took the first year as a sophomore, taking the second year as a senior. He's going to have to do some serious brush-up this summer on his own to get up to speed. I'm sure he's forgotten a lot of what he learned the first year.
We looked into having him take another credit's worth of Japanese at a community college this summer, but he decided he didn't want to. He prefers Spanish anyway, and it's a long story as to why he didn't take Spanish in the first place. This summer we're going to do some college visits and he's attending a 2 week journalism program.
We have had to nix some schools from his list because they require 3 years; now all of the schools on his current list require 2 years. His SAT scores are above the 75% mark at most of these schools, and his GPA is excellent. So I'm wondering how much the lack of foreign language is really going to hurt him, admissions-wise....?
I'd love your input.
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CarolynLawrence
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Posted: Wed Apr 18th, 2007 05:50 pm |
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Hummingbird,
I hate saying this but the answer is once again, "it depends on the college." There are some colleges where two years of language won't be a problem at all, there are others where a competitive candidate will need to go above and beyond any stated "minimum" requirements in ALL core academic areas.
Much will depend on how strong your son's high school curriculum in other academic areas will be. One thing I have noticed is that for all but the most selective schools, having one weakness in your high school curriculum (by weakness I mean less than 3-4 years in a subject) is usually not going to be a deal breaker in and of itself if the rest of the curriculum is very strong. For example, my daughter only had two years of science, but she had four years of math/foreign language/history. She did fine. If I recall correctly, Leftcoast's daughter had less than 4 years of math, but she did fine too, and at some very selective schools. She also, however, did have a solid curriculum in the other core areas (LC, correct me if my memory is hazy). Some of the students I've worked with only had two years of a foreign language, and they also did OK in admissions. However, once you start getting into two or more weaknesses in the high school curriculum, admissions officers tend to start thinking "weak rigor" and that can be more of a potential problem (but again, not at all colleges)
So, only having two years of a foreign language won't rule out most schools, but whether he'll get into any particular school will depend on the rest of his curriculum, his grades, and his test scores, as well as all of the other factors. The bottomline, I guess, is that this is not something you can change at this point, so you should be aware that it is a weakness, but not worry too much about it being a deal-breaker.
Finally, DO NOT automatically nix ANY school just because their printed requirements "recommend" or even "require" a certain number of years of foreign language. Instead, make it a point to directly ask someone in admissions if the two years of a language will totally rule him out. I know in my daughter's case, every admissions person we talked to (including at some pretty selective schools) said that they would not automatically throw her application into the trash just because she had a weak science curriculum. So, don't assume until you ask and are told "no, we will NOT take or have NEVER taken anyone with only two years of a foreign language"
Last edited on Wed Apr 18th, 2007 05:54 pm by CarolynLawrence
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hummingbird
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Posted: Wed Apr 18th, 2007 05:57 pm |
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Thanks for your reply, Carolyn. The rest of his curriculum has been rigorous. It's just really unfortunate the way this foreign language thing turned out. To make it up in one summer would mean 10 weeks of Monday-Thursday half a day classes. He just isn't willing to do it, and I can't say I blame him. I took Anatomy & Physiology that way a few summers ago and it was pretty grueling.
Edit to add: OK, I will check with Syracuse - that's one school we crossed off the list due to the language requirement.Last edited on Wed Apr 18th, 2007 05:58 pm by hummingbird
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Chedva
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Posted: Wed Apr 18th, 2007 05:59 pm |
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| Most of the schools my d looked at only suggested the number of years of foreign language - it wasn't a strict requirement.
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jocelynDAD
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Posted: Wed Apr 18th, 2007 06:28 pm |
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HBird:
That he has two years of Japanese, a language that has a different symbol set-up from the English alphabet will be a positive for his application. 
Three years is nice, but many high schools offering Japanese, Chinese, Latin only offer two years.
Now if it was Spanish or French - only two years could be viewed as a negative, since most high schools have at least 4 years of each language. Our D2 took 5 years of French starting in the 8th grade.
Her language in college is Japanese! 
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hummingbird
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Posted: Wed Apr 18th, 2007 06:41 pm |
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JocelynDad-- did her HS offer a 5th year of French? Their HS offers 4 years of Japanese. Our 8th grade daughter is taking Japanese 1 now and loves it - wants to continue through HS (it's a 6-12 magnet school). But she'll be done with the 4 year sequence after her Junior year. I suggested she could take it at a CC if she really wants another year of Japanese.
As with everything, the mistakes we're making and the things we're learning with kid #1 help kid #2.
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mom61
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Posted: Wed Apr 18th, 2007 07:34 pm |
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hummingbird- For your D she could look into doing an independent study her senior year. I have know several students who did that with Latin and also Italian which is not offered at the public school. I think with at least one of them it is the same teacher who teaches at her public school. She meets with him on Saturday. I am not sure how she gets the credit on her transcript.
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DesperateDad
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Posted: Wed Apr 18th, 2007 08:10 pm |
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That he has two years of Japanese, a language that has a different symbol set-up from the English alphabet will be a positive for his application.
Concur with mac's comment if and only if Japanese is not spoken at home....
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hummingbird
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Posted: Wed Apr 18th, 2007 08:15 pm |
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| Nope, our family speaks only plain ol' American English. I wish I would have continued learning French beyond high school. Maybe someday.
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jocelynDAD
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Posted: Wed Apr 18th, 2007 09:34 pm |
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HBird: Yes - French 5th year is an AP class.
DDad: "Mac?' 
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ChicosBailBonds
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Posted: Thu Apr 19th, 2007 06:39 pm |
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My D had taken 2 1/2 years of Japanese when she applied to colleges, because, in the middle of her junior year, we moved to a school district that didn't offer Japanese.(She did go to Japan in the summer after her junior year through AFS). She applied to schools ranked, by and large, in USNews 50-100, many of which recommended 3 years of a foreign language. Her grades and test scores did not put her in the top 25% of any school to which she applied (and in some cases she was in the bottom 25%), nor did she take the most rigorous classes. She was admitted to all but one school.
Not only was the missing foreign language a non-issue but, in several cases, her commitment to Japanese was a benefit. Unless a school is so selective that it is looking for reasons to reject candidates, I agree that, at worst, it will be neutral. The best thing to do is have your son contact the schools in which he is interested, and, perhaps, deal with it briefly on the application.
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hummingbird
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Posted: Fri Apr 20th, 2007 12:38 am |
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Thanks Chico for your own experience with this. That helps!
I emailed Syracuse yesterday and asked them about their language requirement (I didn't mention he was taking Japanese, specifically. I just said he has 2 years of foreign language). This is what they replied:
"Thank you for your email. Syracuse University requires 4 years each of English, math, science, and social studies and 3 years of foreign language. The Prospectus outlines typical requirements of a college preparatory program. However, we understand that some students attend high schools that do not require this number of courses since high school requirements vary by schools and states. If you have not completed all of these requirements, the Admissions Committee will consider this as an exception to our standard requirement and make a judgment based on the requirements of the secondary school, strength of curriculum, and performance in those classes."
So it sounds to me as if it is not cut-and-dried. Good!Last edited on Fri Apr 20th, 2007 12:38 am by hummingbird
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jocelynDAD
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Posted: Fri Apr 20th, 2007 01:18 am |
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HBird:
Well if your child's interest in Syracuse continues, be aware that both myself and our very own Carolyn are graduates of that University, so it has to be an excellent choice. 
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CarolynLawrence
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Posted: Fri Apr 20th, 2007 04:11 pm |
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| Hummingbird, I think if you're going to fall short on one of the "Requirements," foreign language is the one to fall short on for most schools. And, yes, there is usually some flexibility in the "requirements" at any school. So, don't worry too much about something you can't change at this point.
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leftcoast
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Posted: Fri Apr 20th, 2007 11:13 pm |
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I'd like to add a word of caution to this. I agree that most requirements are flexible -- if that were not the case, I wouldn't have gotten into college myself, as I graduated a year early and had only 3 years of high school English, coming from a high school in Texas and applying to the U. of California, which clearly required 4. Back in those days we didn't really think about things as much -- I just filled out my application and sent it off, and only applied to one other college.
However, my daughter's weakness was math, and last year she applied to Boston U., which seemed to definitely be a "match" and not a reach for her -- but they were very clear that they required 4 years of high school math through precalc, and when my d. emailed them to inquire they remained quite firm about it. She enrolled in an online precalc course through UC Extension -- just so that she could put down that she was taking the course -- but she was waitlisted at BU, and I am fairly sure it is the math issue that prevented her being accepted.
So I do think that it is important to look at what each college says is "required" vs. "recommended" and take that list seriously. I ALSO think that students should go ahead and apply to any college they would like to attend -- but look at the weakness as a factor that is weighing against the application and might push a "match" college over into the "reach" column - don't count on it being waived.
I do think foreign language is a little different than math or science -- but the point is, when colleges have a ton of applications and they are trying to choose among them, its a pretty easy task for them to start screening simply by seeing which applicants have the minimum requirements.
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CarolynLawrence
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Posted: Fri Apr 20th, 2007 11:46 pm |
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| Leftcoast is correct. Which goes back to my original suggestion: talk to each school. Don't assume anything. But, even then, you can't do much about this situation, so don't stress too much over what can't be changed, just ask questions, and draw up a reasonable list from the answers you receive.
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TooTiredMom
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Posted: Sat Apr 21st, 2007 06:07 am |
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| If a student takes Spanish 1 in 8th grade, Spanish 2 in ninth grade and Spanish 3 in tenth grade do colleges consider that to be three years of a foreign language? Or do they view it as only two because only two years were completed while in high school?
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hummingbird
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Posted: Sat Apr 21st, 2007 01:26 pm |
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| That's a good question, and I wonder the same thing since my d is taking Japanese 1 as an 8th grader. Last edited on Sat Apr 21st, 2007 01:27 pm by hummingbird
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mominva
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Posted: Sat Apr 21st, 2007 01:57 pm |
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Usually, high school credit classes taken in middle school are listed on the high school transcript but are not included in the GPA. Foreign language and mathematics are the most common of these courses. Some high schools however have 'residency' requirements: the mininum number of course which must be taken at the high school.
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DesperateDad
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Posted: Sat Apr 21st, 2007 02:36 pm |
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| actually, I would guess most high schools do NOT List MS courses on the transcript -- ours don't. However, it doesn't matter since AdComs know what Span 4 is, and, if taken as a Frosh, they could be done with Languages; of course, but Adcoms would prefer the kids followup with AP Lang.
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