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CarolynLawrence
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Posted: Wed Feb 14th, 2007 04:25 pm |
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Someone suggested that a thread asking senior parents what they would have done the same or differently would be helpful to junior and sophomore parents. So, here it is! Senior parents, what advice would you give to parents just starting the college process -- things you wish you had or hadn't done, things that worked well, things that didn't. Inquiring minds want to know. 
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jocelynDAD
Member
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Posted: Wed Feb 14th, 2007 04:47 pm |
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Well as a parent of a Junior, who has six older siblings that all have gone thru this interestingly and frustrating process, here is my two cents.
The process begins the summer between the Sophomore and Junior year.
That summer is the time to get the outer data located. Size of student body, location (cold, hot, mountains, beaches), rural or urban, small town or big city, general idea of child's interest, potential, etc.
Vists to various colleges of different sizes - type locations just to give your child a physical idea. Collect catalogs at these schools and all available literature, using the Web, connect with interesting colleges, request information from them, start file folders on each college.
Parents must recognize that no matter how many colleges you have seen or whatever your opinion of your college(s) or your older children's colleges - it is your current child and her/his eyes that must see the campus etc. This search is new to them and is rather personal. The parent, must IMO take his/her well earned knowledge and experience and cover up for the time so that the child can 'feel' his/her way into the process.
Junior year, visit whenever possible colleges, have interviews and visits to classes for your child (whenever allowed by the college). In the spring of the Junior year, try to have your child 'overnight' at a couple of schools. Take SAT and ACT in December and May/June of Junior year.
Final note, if the September of her/his Senior begins and the child has not visited most if not all schools that is on his list, IMO, your child will be hard pressed to be able to (while dealing with the Senior year classes, extra-curr, AP pressures, applications, essays) really be able to focus on the variety of college choices, visits, etc.
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DesperateDad
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Posted: Wed Feb 14th, 2007 05:08 pm |
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| Not a senior parent this year, but my $0.02: Altho it may be worse than a root canal, bribe (if you have to) the rising senior to start and (nearly?) complete his/her Personal Statement over the summer. It makes the apps that much easier, particularly as the senior schedule commences.
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binx
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Posted: Wed Feb 14th, 2007 05:27 pm |
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Yes! I agree with the start earlier. We didn't have a choice, but I really noticed the difference with kid #3 getting so much later of a start.
Start a file (I have a drawer!) of things you might need or want to use for college aps. This includes especially good essays - ones where the kid wrote about something they care about. It might spark an idea later on. Save all those award certificates, music programs, summer camp details... I had a file for each kid, and boy did it get used. My music kid actually had to send a copy of a "representative program" with his application - glad I had it! There were also lists of repertoire which I would have never remembered. And DATES. You know your kid got this or that award, but do you remember which year? Or the official name?
Start reading books about colleges. There are a lot out there, and just isn't enough time.
Speaking of books, Davidson requires a list of books read in the past year, and separated by whether for school or for pleasure. Since D was going to apply there (she didn't), she kept a running list. Another school wanted her to write about a book she'd read recently, so at least she used it for that.
Last edited on Wed Feb 14th, 2007 05:28 pm by binx
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alanarch
Member
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Posted: Wed Feb 14th, 2007 05:31 pm |
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I will reinforce JocelynDad. Get in as many visits as possible in junior year. Fall of senior year might be very academically challenging and making time for those visits might be very difficult, causing an enermous amount of stress. I felt it was one of the things we did right.
I will put one caveat on this. Sometimes the child is not ready and it is not a good idea to push too hard. He was definately nor ready his first semester junior year and was barely ready the second semester but with a little nudging we got him to go. After that, I have had to keep the duct tape on and was pleasantly surprised that given the space to works things out by himself, he came to mutually satisfying choices.
Be prepared that there is a lot of emotion in the process even if it doesn't show which I think is the case with many boys. Be patient, the process will never be perfect and this is not life or death. Make time for some fun things.
Last edited on Wed Feb 14th, 2007 08:55 pm by alanarch
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WestrnMom
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Posted: Wed Feb 14th, 2007 06:18 pm |
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Understand your child's learning style and needs and make sure your child understands them as well. We visited over a dozen schools and no two are the same. Even within the public school system, every campus is different. View each campus with your child from the perspective of "what will I get here that I can't get elsewhere or what will I find that is better/not as good on Campus A as on Campus B?"
Look at the extras. Does your child want/need an internship/coop program? Are you willing to settle for classes of 300 students where the student must actively seek out a professor's help but will more likely learn from a TA or are you looking for more interactive, smaller setting with planned faculty/student interaction? How rigorous a program can/should your child handle? Where is a student most likely to be successful?
I've run into an unusually high number of parents whose children left their colleges and came home or transferred. They left a variety of schools from a very large public university, to a well-known LAC, to a U.S. military academy. In each case, they chose their schools for the wrong reasons (from what I could tell from the parents)--more because someone told them they were good schools than from making sure it was a fit before the child made the decision.
I taught at a major university in the past. The students who had the most problem were usually the ones who were in the wrong school for their needs.
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limner
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Posted: Wed Feb 14th, 2007 07:41 pm |
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One thing H insisted on doing was taking S on a "college tour" the summer after freshman year (it started with four days at the beach and not a college in sight). But they did see several colleges, and S went from lackluster grades (As and Bs--maybe a C, can't remember) his freshman year to straight As as a sophomore. That tour made the abstract concrete and he started doing what he needed to have choices come senior year. S and I were talking about that the other day, and he said that that trip had made a difference for him.
I also agree that starting earlier, both on writing essays and getting that college list whittled down, would have been a good idea.
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rhumbob
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Posted: Thu Feb 15th, 2007 12:57 am |
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I think JocelynDAD nailed it. The college vists (while they are in session) are very valuable. Our D had 2 top choices before we visited any schools. After our visits she ended up not even applying to those 2.
Limner, that is great advice. D is very motivated so your advice would not have made a difference. S is in the 7th grade and is very bright kid. He is very happy to get by doing the least amount possible. I will remember your advice when he is a freshman.
Lastly, there are a lot of great schools in the country. Fit is much more important than US News ranking...don't get blinded by designer labels.
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mathmom
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Posted: Thu Feb 15th, 2007 03:00 pm |
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This sounds ridiculous, but my son has a ton of medals for of Science Olympiad competitions and he has no idea which events he won which years at which level of competition. Write this stuff down! It's not on the medals!
Have your kid apply to one school with an early deadline or rolling admissions so that there's a reason for at least a few essays to get written in October.
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entomom
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Posted: Thu Feb 15th, 2007 03:57 pm |
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| Use free SAT score reports and NM commended/semifinalist status (you get to name 2 schools) to show interest in schools that keep track. This is particularly helpful if you won't be able to visit the school. Not only will it show them that you're taking a serious look at them, it may result in the school giving you a fee waiver for the application.
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WADad
Member
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Posted: Fri Feb 16th, 2007 01:14 am |
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Remember that your kid's interest may well change from the beginning of Junior year to the middle of Senior year, when they'll actually be finalizing those applications. At the beginning of Junior year my son wanted to be an actuary, with a major interest in business. So Claremont McKenna seemed like a great fit. By the spring of Junior year when we actually visited the Claremont Colleges, he had no interest in business, little interest in being an actuary, and was more interested in Chemistry. Fortunately we were able to fit in a visit to Pomona. Now he thinks he'll double major in Math and Music.....
So remember they are 17 or 18 years old, and it's OK if they change their mind. They may well change their mind again once they get to college.
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ChicosBailBonds
Member
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Posted: Thu Mar 22nd, 2007 02:27 am |
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I thought I'd resurrect this thread to add my thoughts. This comes from the perspective of a parent of a B student who has many fine qualities but who is no academic superstar.
1. Let the game come to you.
I was ready to start the conversation about college in my D's freshman year of high school. She was not. I might as well have been talking to my cat. So, I did my information gathering, but didn't bother her until her junior year, when we started very informal college visits in conjunction with other activities(vacations, trips to Chicago, etc.) I knew we were ready to talk serioulsy when, at one visit she asked "Dad, could I get into this school?"
2. Don't obsess about your kid's credentials.
My D took no AP classes. She took 2 honors classes. She took no science in her senior year of high school. She dropped out of the band after 2 years so she could join the stage crew. Despite being on an elite soccer team, she never played high school soccer--she just wasn't interested. Now, if you believe the websites of even the "non-elite" colleges, her failure to take the "most rigorous" classes should have counted against her. In the end, she was admitted to 6 (and counting) schools, including schools that should have been out of reach.
3. Accentuate the positive.
My D applied only to LACs and LAC-like schools. Unlike public universities, those schools will look at your kid more "holistically". So, have your kid develop his or her theme about who he or she is. Have him take the time to keep track of activities, awards and achievements, and then have your kid use them, in his essay and interview, to tell his story. Then, choose schools where that story is likely to resonate.
For my daughter, that story was Japanese. She studied it in high school. She founded the anime club. She is a black belt in karate. She did an exchange program in Japan. Although it is far from clear that this will be her chosen major, she used this background as the basis for her personal essays, and chose schools that had Japanese prgorams.
4. Show interest.
My daughter took the opportunity to strike up an email conversation with the Admissions Officers of schools she was considering. She was not a nuisance, but she asked for information, even if some of that information was readily available on the website. Three of the schools she contacted actually visited her school, despite the fact that it was hundreds, or even thousands of miles away, and they'd never visited her school before. I'm convinced that the Admissions Officers reponsilbe for her geographic region visted because she'd expressed an interest in their schools. Needless to say, she was the only student who showed up when the Admissions Officers visited (not quite true--in one case, she dragged 2 friends along, which was duly noted by the AdOff.)
5. Reverse commute.
Where feasible, look at schools that might consider your kid a prize, whether because of geographic, ethnic or other diversity. A school in Ohio with 70% of its students from that state would love a kid from Tennessee. A school in the south with 1% Asian students would love to get an Asian kid from California. If your kid has an unusual interest, as mine did, consider schools that have good programs in that area, but are looking to upgrade or expand.
6. Have your kid own the process.
I was very involved in the information gathering. I admit that I enjoyed it. Once information was gathered, I handed it off to D. She did the apps. She wrote the essays (her mom, not I, reviewed them). She scheduled interviews and campus visits. I accompanied her to most, but not all of the visits. I admit that I hectored her about deadlines as they were approaching, and about scholarship applications, but I made it clear to her that I had already been to college so that this was about her future, not mine.
It'd getting late, so those are my thoughts for now. I hope they help.
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ChicosBailBonds
Member
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Posted: Thu Mar 22nd, 2007 02:27 am |
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I thought I'd resurrect this thread to add my thoughts. This comes from the perspective of a parent of a B student who has many fine qualities but who is no academic superstar.
1. Let the game come to you.
I was ready to start the conversation about college in my D's freshman year of high school. She was not. I might as well have been talking to my cat. So, I did my information gathering, but didn't bother her until her junior year, when we started very informal college visits in conjunction with other activities(vacations, trips to Chicago, etc.) I knew we were ready to talk serioulsy when, at one visit she asked "Dad, could I get into this school?"
2. Don't obsess about your kid's credentials.
My D took no AP classes. She took 2 honors classes. She took no science in her senior year of high school. She dropped out of the band after 2 years so she could join the stage crew. Despite being on an elite soccer team, she never played high school soccer--she just wasn't interested. Now, if you believe the websites of even the "non-elite" colleges, her failure to take the "most rigorous" classes should have counted against her. In the end, she was admitted to 6 (and counting) schools, including schools that should have been out of reach.
3. Accentuate the positive.
My D applied only to LACs and LAC-like schools. Unlike public universities, those schools will look at your kid more "holistically". So, have your kid develop his or her theme about who he or she is. Have him take the time to keep track of activities, awards and achievements, and then have your kid use them, in his essay and interview, to tell his story. Then, choose schools where that story is likely to resonate.
For my daughter, that story was Japanese. She studied it in high school. She founded the anime club. She is a black belt in karate. She did an exchange program in Japan. Although it is far from clear that this will be her chosen major, she used this background as the basis for her personal essays, and chose schools that had Japanese prgorams.
4. Show interest.
My daughter took the opportunity to strike up an email conversation with the Admissions Officers of schools she was considering. She was not a nuisance, but she asked for information, even if some of that information was readily available on the website. Three of the schools she contacted actually visited her school, despite the fact that it was hundreds, or even thousands of miles away, and they'd never visited her school before. I'm convinced that the Admissions Officers reponsilbe for her geographic region visted because she'd expressed an interest in their schools. Needless to say, she was the only student who showed up when the Admissions Officers visited (not quite true--in one case, she dragged 2 friends along, which was duly noted by the AdOff.)
5. Reverse commute.
Where feasible, look at schools that might consider your kid a prize, whether because of geographic, ethnic or other diversity. A school in Ohio with 70% of its students from that state would love a kid from Tennessee. A school in the south with 1% Asian students would love to get an Asian kid from California. If your kid has an unusual interest, as mine did, consider schools that have good programs in that area, but are looking to upgrade or expand.
6. Have your kid own the process.
I was very involved in the information gathering. I admit that I enjoyed it. Once information was gathered, I handed it off to D. She did the apps. She wrote the essays (her mom, not I, reviewed them). She scheduled interviews and campus visits. I accompanied her to most, but not all of the visits. I admit that I hectored her about deadlines as they were approaching, and about scholarship applications, but I made it clear to her that I had already been to college so that this was about her future, not mine.
It'd getting late, so those are my thoughts for now. I hope they help.
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CarolynLawrence
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Posted: Thu Mar 22nd, 2007 04:22 am |
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ChicosBailBonds wrote:
1. Let the game come to you.
I was ready to start the conversation about college in my D's freshman year of high school. She was not. I might as well have been talking to my cat. So, I did my information gathering, but didn't bother her until her junior year, when we started very informal college visits in conjunction with other activities(vacations, trips to Chicago, etc.) I knew we were ready to talk serioulsy when, at one visit she asked "Dad, could I get into this school?"
Chico, ALL of your advice was wonderful, but this one is the most key. We parents are ready way before our kids. They are, after all, just kids, living the last years of their childhood. There is no rush. Let them experience high school for a few years before rushing to get on with the next phase. It will come, but perhaps not on our schedule. Teens live in a parallel universe where time moves at a different rate than it does in ours.
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Daaaad
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Posted: Thu Mar 22nd, 2007 11:56 am |
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Very well said Chicos. One of the best quick advice posts I've seen.
I will add one other thing: IT IS THEIR CHOICE, NOT OURS
I know we write the checks and worry about little Susie or Johnnie, but in the end they are the ones who must be happy, not us. I know one unfortunate young man who got into a little trouble a month ago and his parents decided for him which school he was attending. It's a good school, but...
After several rounds of college visits Junior year, I remember leaving one particular college - a college my D had put on her list and one I was not happy about including because of its size - but as we were leaving, I could tell there was something different about my D's reaction. In time she sold me on it and I began to see why she liked it best. I overheard her last night talking to another student who is considering the same school and she sounded like a recruiter for the school.
I trust her judgement and feel it is her first major adult decision. I just have to step back and provide the safety net if something goes wrong, or cheer her on if all goes well.
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scoop
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Posted: Thu Mar 22nd, 2007 12:43 pm |
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Chicos,
What great advice. Thanks to all of you who have contributed. It is very, very helpful to me at this stage.
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pencilnpaper
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Posted: Thu Mar 22nd, 2007 06:30 pm |
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My daughter has had very mixed results so far -- she has been excepted everywhere (waitlisted at her #1 choice). She was even admitted to one school we never imagined! BUT...the financial aid has not followed -- even to the "safety" schools, which has come at a bit of a surprise. (Packages have been received). So, while we are celebrating her accomplishments, and it appears there are many choices, in reality, there are only a couple, and unfortunately not the ones she prefers. It is not over until May 1 of course, and she is looking elsewhere for aid as well.
Everyone advises to choose safeties wisely, including schools that they "love". We tried. We DID explain the financial picture in advance, stressing that merit aid would be necessary. We DID encourage (required) her to apply to a variety of schools including financial safeties. We studied the CDS information where available, looking for schools that are generous with merit aid. Our choices were more limited, due to her intended major, but there were options. But now that that there are a few BMW's sitting in the drive next to the Chevy, it becomes very difficult to step back to the Chevy. Not a new life lesson of course! ( I'm not sure how to advise differently because I don't believe in not reaching for the stars at all. Just do so cautiously.) I also recognize that she has done extremely well with regard to the admissions half!
I'm convinced that the standardized tests are more important than we are led to believe -- perhaps not for admissions, but definitely for financial aid. We had the experience of an older sibling to compare. They had very similar EC's, involvement, leadership, grade, rank, courses, teachers, guidance, parental income, etc. The major difference was their test scores. Hers were very good, His were stellar. VERY different financial aid results so far. It could also be the time difference. Costs have continued to rise at a fast rate; and perhaps aid has been fixed, and harder to get. However, I'm still convinced the standardized tests were a critical part of the picture. So the advice part: If aid is an issue, make sure they prepare for the standardized tests...and then prepare some more. It is unfortunate, but I believe critical.
Side note: Early action programs are WONDERFUL.
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ChicosBailBonds
Member
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Posted: Thu Mar 22nd, 2007 07:07 pm |
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P n P
I think you make a good point about financial aid. Whether they will admit it or not, most schools are looking to improve their rating in US News. An easy way to do this is to raise the ACT or SAT 25/75, so they are enticing the high scoring applicants with great merit aid packages. I also know that many schools are seeing a record number of applicants, so students who might have been given good scholarship money now find themselves relatively lower down the food chain.
A lot of schools show their merit scholarship calculations on their websites; a combination of grades and standardized test scores yield X dollars. In finding financial safeties, this is a good place to start.
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mominva
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Posted: Thu Mar 22nd, 2007 08:34 pm |
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P & P
I think it is more telling that HERS were very good and HIS were stellar.
It seems that schools are scrambling to fill those male seats so they lure the ones who will also bring up their selectivity stats.
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WestrnMom
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Posted: Thu Mar 22nd, 2007 10:19 pm |
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If financial aid will be the deciding criterion that should be a key factor in choosing where to apply. Mine received some excellent aid packages. He received nothing at one school that is very similar to the other two, except they offer aid based on different factors. They hold test scores much higher than they do grades, where the other schools offer aid based on grades over test scores and on other characteristics. The best package favored grades, leadership and community service, and didn't mention test scores. He was also offered a talent scholarship verbally at another private school (nothing in writing and no dollar amount) at a school that ultimately didn't admit him. His GPA and test scores were within their range, but he wasn't wildly excited about that school, and every one of their essay topics was geared to judge interest. I know of one student with lower stats for whom that school was the #1 choice, who was admitted.
Turning what I said into advice: If merit aid is important, look at how scholarships are given out, and make sure your child's stats and ECs satisfy the scholarship requirements. If you can't tell from their websites, contact their admissions offices. Merit aid comes through the admissions office. Talent aid comes through the departments. Need-based aid comes through the financial aid offices.
If continued aid is important, look at what is required to keep that aid. At one school, it's a 3.0, but after questioning their admissions office, I found they will help scholarship students maintain the grades if the students work hard--they will provide tutoring if needed. At another school with lower stats, the required GPA is 3.2 and they don't offer as much support, so at School #1 the student will be more likely to sustain the scholarship for 4 years. Talent awards may require a lower GPA, so look into that as well and don't assume that merit and talent aid requirements are identical. I know one girl who lost her scholarship after her first semester of freshman year, where other schools don't review transcripts for aid until sophomore year.
Also, if your child gets talent aid, are they required to participate in activities to keep it? How much time will those activities take?
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