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jennyjenny
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| Joined: | Thu Jun 1st, 2006 |
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Posted: Sat Jun 3rd, 2006 04:00 am |
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So I told my son we should try to start our college visits during his spring break. He picks Columbia. Why not aim right for the top, I thought. Here's how it went:
Location - in NYC, as you probably know. My family is originally from there, so I'm cool with the traffic, crowds, bridge tolls and $25 parking garage bill for the visit, but be forewarned if you are not accustomed to traveling in a major city. There will NEVER be free parking. Take public transit if you can, and avoid rush hour at all costs.
Columbia U. is located in Morningside Heights, on the west side of Manhattan between the Upper West Side area & Harlem. Columbia, Barnard College, Manhattan School of Music & I think a couple other schools are within a few blocks of each other. Columbia is quick to tell you they have good security on campus and the crime rate is low compared to other parts of NYC.
Given its urban location, Columbia doesn't have the lush, rolling hills and pretty scenery that is featured in so many college brochures. But it has some elegant, neoclassical buildings like their library, where the names of ancient Greek philosophers are inscribed in large letters. It does have a fairly small quad where students were living up to those "brochure photos" of playing frisbee and studying under trees.
We signed up for an info session and tour. First, the info session:
Our group was led into the Roone Arledge Auditorium (former ABC news president endowed it, he was a Columbia alum). An admissions officer spoke to us. She is one of the full-time application reviewers, so she really knew a lot about potential applicants. And I have to say her talk was extremely refreshing. I was expecting a generalized sales pitch that would gloss over some things.
Instead we got plenty of straight talk about the Columbia application process. The rep clearly explained how they review the apps. Her best piece of advice: on their app, when it asks you why you want to attend Columbia, do not write
"because it's an Ivy League & it's in New York City". That's too obvious; give the answer some real thought. They want to know that why you are really interested in their school specifically.
Incidentally, while the lady was talking to us, we heard some pretty fine classical piano coming from another room. We were in the student activities building, so I don't know if there was a recital of some sort, but it sounded more like someone practicing. Columbia is the kind of place where you'd expect to hear someone just sit down and start playing piano brilliantly. Their students are that accomplished.
After the talk, a student named Mike took us on a tour. He was one of those incredible overachiever types who is pre-med and involved in numerous activities (like giving campus tours). The highlight was Columbia's library, where students like Mike seem to live. The library is open 24/7, and Mike told us that many students stake out their favorite spot during finals. That says it all. I attended a large, state supported school where the library closes at 10 p.m. and was never full.
Unfortunately, our campus tour was mostly exteriors. Our guide pointed out the science building where the famous Manhattan Project was developed. But we saw the insides of the library, student center, and gym only. Would have liked to see the classrooms and dorms. But the tour filled an hour as it was.
Our guide was extremely nice and polite, with no ego despite the fact that he'll probably become a very prominent doctor or researcher someday. Most of the students seemed like that; brilliant, thoughtful, and modest. I was especially struck by the way they dressed. What struck me is that most of the students' clothes were unusually nondescript. They were clean and well-groomed but wore generic-looking jeans and sweatshirts in grey, blue or black. Sounds dull but far from it. These folks are just very focused on their inner lives rather than appearances.
Overall, my son was a little awestruck and so was I. As we returned home, we passed his high school. He said "my school is going to seem like a joke after Columbia". I knew what he meant. He'll apply there anyway, though his chances are slim to none. Heck, the Ivies are even rejecting valedictorians these days, so why not give it a shot? Places like Columbia inspire you to dream big.
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jocelynDAD
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Posted: Sat Jun 3rd, 2006 06:21 am |
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JennY:
As a Boy from Brooklyn who has worked both for the City and the State in NYC, I know the city and the Morningside Heights area as well. NYC is NYC, if you love it, it is the greatest city in the western world.
However, the college age student will be venturing forth into the city, so any comments about crime statistics from the college is just not terribly relevant.
Not lately, but back in the 90ths, Morningside Heights subway stops and ground level entrances were plagued by purse snatchers and muggers. These are the stations, from which and returning to, any and all students must take to travel around the city. Buses are slow and crowded and rarely used for any long distances.
I would look very closely at the dorm situation, are they guaranteed for four years, are they located on campus, if not, where and what is travel times etc.
I do love NYC, but it does require an awareness and a bit of luck to live there.
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leftcoast
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Posted: Sat Jun 3rd, 2006 07:16 am |
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Well, I'm sending my daughter to Barnard -- she has already visited twice on her own, and survived the experience without being mugged. It takes a little bit of street smarts and awareness of one's surroundings.
I think the safety and crime stats of the campus and Morningside heights area is significant, because that is the place where a student is more likely to be outside, alone, late at night -- such as walking back to the dorm from that 24-hour library at 2 am. Sightseeing and shopping around the city is more likely to take place during daylight hours, and when the kids go out on the town for night life they more likely will be traveling in groups. (or at least mine will -- I hope she's not insane enough to take the subway on her own after dark. I'll have a little chat with her about that in any case).
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alanarch
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Posted: Sat Jun 3rd, 2006 10:46 am |
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"It takes a little bit of street smarts and awareness of one's surroundings."
This is all you need. I live on the Upper West Side a few blocks south of Columbia/Barnard. There is no way your D will not use subway at night . As a person who uses the subways all the time (the 1,2, or 3 trains along Broadway), I just do not see this as an issue. If you want the New York, or any other city, experience, you will learn to adjust. It's just what everybody does.
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Pye
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| Joined: | Mon Mar 6th, 2006 |
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Posted: Sat Jun 3rd, 2006 11:09 am |
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The Morningside Heights area of NYC has vastly improved over the last 10-15 years. This doesn't mean that you can walk around at any hour of the night or keep your wallet sticking out of your back pocket. You still need the usual NYC street smarts and to "always keep your wits about you" ( as my lifelong New Yorker dad liked to say). But I grew up in the City and return there often and consider myself a worrywart mom, nevertheless, I would not consider street safety or campus safety a significant issue if my child wanted to attend Barnard or Columbia. I would insist on the child being aware of the necessary precautions and relevant common sense about urban life. Barnard also includes "city life education" in its freshman orientation. Subway after dark should not be forbidden--but subway any later than returning from a Broadway show (between 11 and midnignt) is best avoided.....
Last edited on Sat Jun 3rd, 2006 11:15 am by Pye
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mathmom
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| Joined: | Fri Apr 14th, 2006 |
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Posted: Sat Jun 3rd, 2006 08:52 pm |
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I live in the NYC burbs now, but went to Architecture school at Columbia in the bad old 80s and survived. I echo what everyone says. My son (now 17) went to Saturday classes at Columbia last fall and to summer school last summer and the only time I worried even slightly was the day that we got word of a terrorist threat to the subways. But even I tend to think terrorists are unlikely to target the Upper West Side. Housing options were abysmal for grad students - nearly everyone was on their own - but I think undergrads are better off. I love the city and the area has gotten livelier - there's a regular street fair on Saturdays on Broadway for example. Madeleine L'Engle fans should be sure to check out the area around the Cathedral of St. John the Divine. 
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atlantamom
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Posted: Mon Jun 5th, 2006 12:13 pm |
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I would like to add to this discussion another danger parents seem to ignore that is a factor in other places where their kids will be driving a lot, like in Atlanta. Traffic deaths. This city has more than one traffic death a day.
Personally, with street smarts, I think NYC is safer than Atlanta.
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WestrnMom
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| Joined: | Fri May 26th, 2006 |
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Posted: Tue Jun 6th, 2006 12:45 am |
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What is Columbia like for a student who likes to be on campus late at night?
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macnyc
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Posted: Tue Jun 6th, 2006 07:03 am |
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My daughter attended a Columbia info session and came home disgruntled. The admission director in charge of the session spoke about the applicants' outside reading. At one point he apparently said, "If your favorite book is Harry Potter, we don't want to know about it." This, for D, was a deal breaker!
Of course Columbia is a wonderful school for the right student. The core curriculum is one of the factors that makes Columbia different. You gotta love it, or else you won't enjoy your time at Columbia.
We also visited Barnard and I personally found the tiny campus claustrophic. Barnard is also a wonderful school, though, with the advantage of offering cross-registration with Columbia.
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leftcoast
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Posted: Tue Jun 6th, 2006 12:34 pm |
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Mac, maybe your d. should reconsider Barnard - I think Harry Potter would be ok there. My d wrote about "Eloise" when asked to discuss a fictional character who taught her something. I'm sure they wouldn't mind discussion of characters from Harry Potter.... just as long as the choice is Hermione or Prof. McGonnigal.
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mathmom
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Posted: Tue Jun 6th, 2006 02:16 pm |
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Campus is very safe, it's all walled in too.
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jocelynDAD
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Posted: Tue Jun 6th, 2006 06:32 pm |
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In selecting a college or university, many factors must be considered. As a New Yorker by birth and one who loves the attractions and pace of New York, I must comment on College in New York.
Whether it is Fordham at Lincoln Center, Columbia in Morningside Heights or NYC downtown, just north of Greeenwich Villege or Parsons on 5th Avenue among the many schools that are smack in the middle of Manhattan, part of the attraction must be NYC itself.
The actual campus buildings and environment are almost a side effect for these schools. Any person attending a college in Manhattan is going to participate in the daily life of NY City.
When discussing the singleton topic of campus safety, while it is a important consideration almost anywhere our children might attend, discussing the safety of a campus environment in Manhattan withjout recognition that the student will be part of the Manhattan/NY City lifestyle is impossible.
Any child attending an undergraduate school in a major urban setting is going to be spending a generous amount of time away from the campus and in the city.
Therefore, IMO, that child should be well versed in the pace, tempo and realities of that city prior to making the decision to attend.
NY City and Manhattan can be a wonderful experience, but it ain't easy!
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macnyc
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Posted: Tue Jun 6th, 2006 10:09 pm |
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leftcoast, you're very perceptive! When we toured Barnard in February, there was a big poster from a Harry Potter movie hanging in one of the dorms. That provoked a big  from D.
By the way, speaking of dorms: I always give a college extra credit for actually allowing tours to troop through someone's room. SUNY Bing, yes. Bowdoin, yes. Tufts, no (they said it was because it was summertime). Cornell, no (and no excuses).
And to add to JocelynDad's post: Yes, any undergraduate attending college in New York City will be participating in the life of the city. But for kids living in dorms with meal plans, that's like "Manhattan Lite." Not having to deal with housing or food takes the sharp edges off life in the big city, IMHO.
Last edited on Tue Jun 6th, 2006 10:12 pm by macnyc
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leftcoast
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Posted: Wed Jun 7th, 2006 07:46 am |
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I always give a college extra credit for actually allowing tours to troop through someone's room. Would you feel that way if it were your daughter's room? I understand the temptation to tour, but I'd rather see a college that has a high regard for students' privacy and security. My d. did appreciate colleges that sent brochures with detailed housing info or had virtual tours of dorms on their web sites.
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jocelynDAD
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Posted: Wed Jun 7th, 2006 01:50 pm |
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I have toured too many colleges to count and whenever I have seen a student's room (on most tours) the room usually is either the tour guide's room or a room especially 'open' for the tour.
I have never just been taken to a room where the inhabitiants were not aware and agreeable to allowing the tour(ists) to see the room.
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Chedva
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Posted: Wed Jun 7th, 2006 02:43 pm |
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| When we toured, there was at least one school (and of course I don't remember which) at which we walked into the dorm with the guide, who stuck his head into an occupied room that had the door open, asked the residents if we could look and they said sure. It was clearly not a specified dorm room, mess and all! I loved getting a "real look" at the rooms.
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Lderochi
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Posted: Wed Jun 7th, 2006 02:56 pm |
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| And the worst, the absolute worst, are the schools that take you to a "mock-up" of a "typical" dorm room. While such fantasy rooms might be okay for getting a general feel for room dimensions, they look like something out of a Pottery Barn catalog.
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Pye
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Posted: Wed Jun 7th, 2006 03:08 pm |
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We toured Columbia in the summer last year. Were taken to a girl's room (Broadway show posters on the walls) --she told us she gets the room free for the summer and a small salary in return for promising to be "in" at certain hours to accommodate tour groups-- room looked ordinary and typical not especially neat or fixed up.
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mathmom
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Posted: Wed Jun 7th, 2006 10:55 pm |
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Our tour guide at Caltech showed us her room - and it wasn't particularly neat, though it wasn't horrible either. The funny thing was that there were a group of students eating lunch in the area just outside her room and they all teased her because her room is nicer (slightly bigger) than the typical double. She had told us that her room was bigger than average BTW.
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leftcoast
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Posted: Thu Jun 8th, 2006 03:53 pm |
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Well, summer might be a good time to show visitors dorm rooms, because the dorms generally aren't filled and often are being used for various purposes, to house various participants at different events.
But I personally would not want my daughter to have to live on a floor where campus tours would be coming through, even if it weren't her room -- again, its a matter of privacy.
Unless a college has dorm rooms that are all identical, I don't really see the point in any case -- you might see a spacious double in a quiet dorm and be impressed, but that doesn't mean your kid isn't going to end up crammed into a triple in the party dorm.
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