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MaizeBlue
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Posted: Sat Apr 22nd, 2006 05:12 pm |
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Wow, this has turned into a Midwest lovefest. I'll add my two cents (now three with fuel inflation), then get back on topic.
My two kids took off from the PNW for the Upper Midwest for college(s). I have less experience with the middle or lower Midwest, if anyone distinguishes those areas differently. My D is in MN and my son is a Michigan grad (I consider MI as more midwest than east) and is finishing his grad program at Wisconsin. He is engaged to a native Madisonian and will be moving to Chicago shortly to start his new job. Aside from missing the constant green, the varied terrain, and the nice mountain views, my kids will likely not return. They love all of the things about the Upper Midwest that have been posted previously. They even like the weather, especially the variety. The complaints have been the flatness - what Midwesterners consider mountains are really hills here, much like our suburban neighborhood at 1000 ft. elevation, and the BUGS. My SIL lives in Minneapolis, and everytime we visit we are impressed with the extended friendliness and inclusiveness of her neighbors and the people we happen to encounter while there. Not that we don't see that in other parts of the country, it just seems more genuine there. Not for "show".
Carleton: Extremely rigorous academics; very bright, involved, motivated, friendly, down-to-earth kids; professors that go the extra mile to meet their students' needs; most students have on-campus jobs, almost all have some sort of job; intimate environment on a reasonably good size campus with a large arboretum; trimesters (semester curriculum) so that D is home from Thanksgiving to Jan 2-ish; downtown-that-time-forgot is a two minute walk away (what my kid doesn't like: the food)
Michigan: Excellent academics in his chosen majors- in S's graduating class of 5000 students there were 199 history majors and about 400 poli sci majors - S had lots of interactions with his profs; Ann Arbor - what's not to like?; terrific abroad program in Florence with his Italian teacher; having a 4 semester language requirement which many state schools have done away with; rabid football and hockey fans; an alumni network that won't quit
Wisconsin: Demanding law school with excellent internship opportunities in the community due to state capital; gorgeous campus and setting; still feels like Bezerkley in the late 60's and early 70's (when I grew up near there); proximity to Chicago and Minneapolis
Last edited on Sat Apr 22nd, 2006 05:42 pm by MaizeBlue
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skibum
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Posted: Sat Apr 22nd, 2006 06:09 pm |
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maize: "Bezerkeley"?? I assume the typo was intentional  . Cute.
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MaizeBlue
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Posted: Sat Apr 22nd, 2006 08:44 pm |
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| Yup, Bezerkley it was. I wanted to go there, but my parents gently steered me toward UCLA (the conservative version, formally known as Univ of Calif - Southern Branch). There was quite a bit of protesting/sit-ins going on at UCLA too. Ah those were the days, and that side of my academic experience was met. Last edited on Sat Apr 22nd, 2006 08:47 pm by MaizeBlue
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toobusytoday
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Posted: Sat Apr 22nd, 2006 10:17 pm |
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Okay, Maybe I've just been fortunate to live in friendly towns here in Pennsylvania. When we moved to this neighborhood almost 8 years ago, we had at least 6 families come to our door with food and offers of help moving in. Most were natives of this town but our next door neighbors were from upstate NY. But, we've lived in a few states, Delaware, NY, WV, Virginia, and all of our neighbors and most townspeople have been friendly. Maybe there's a deeper level of friendliness in the mid-west that I just haven't experienced. I gotta tell you I hope my daughter doesn't find that to be true because I want her to move back this way after she graduates from College in Southwestern IL!
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westkymom
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Posted: Mon Apr 24th, 2006 03:45 am |
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Thank you all for the fascinating discussion on these regional differences. I do feel the "blandness" of the midwest (excepting Chicago of course). At the same time, when you all speak of the spice and color and excitement of the Northeast, I wonder if it is the urban areas that you mean. I am reminded of the spice and excitement of San Francisco, lovely, diverse, best exotic cuisine! So is that an urban manifestation?
I remember Seattle -- love it of course -- and the guy on the ferry to Vashon Isle. "Hey lady! You gonna get that car on the ferry or what?" But it was not offensive -- it was how they approached life. I'd live there, go to college there in a heartbeat.
Do you think the bland vs. exciting is urban vs. rural? Or is it truly midwest vs. northeast?
--Rhonda
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toobusytoday
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Posted: Mon Apr 24th, 2006 05:20 pm |
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Exactly! Our town has 4 pizza places, one fast food, two italian restaurants, two sandwich shops, a diner and a chain chinese restaurant. We have four times as many churches as bars. Not exactly a diverse metropolis. There may be 30 kids in my sons High School of 1,000 kids that have darker then white skin. No taxis.
I really think that when people are discussing "the northeast" they are picturing the cities when in reality the biggest area is not that populated, not cutthroat, not fast talking, not super competitive just regular people plugging along. Hmm that really makes you want to live out here, eh? Welcome to my part of PA, home of the pluggers! 
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jocelynDAD
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Posted: Mon Apr 24th, 2006 06:14 pm |
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Coopersburg is about 5 miles from the heart of downtown Allentown as I read the map, so that puts your town as a part of the Allentown suburbs and Rt 309 is a rather easy connector to and from Allentown.
Dorney Park is our favorite playland and have been going there for almost 30 years, so you are really living in that fast paced semi urban/suburban atmosphere.
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westkymom
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Posted: Tue Apr 25th, 2006 02:49 am |
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I guess we (my son and I) need to quit fooling around with this issue and strike out into new territory. We need to go to the Northeast, rural and city, and find out. (Had to really twist my arm huh?  ). Now we're back to the issue of finding colleges east of Pennsylvania, north of Virginia that offer a BS in Comp Sci (or Software Engineering, etc), that have less than 4000 students, are undergrad only, are challenging academically but not just a lottery to get into (like Harvard or MIT), where there are no TA's, where there are other strong science programs as back-up majors, have interesting history depts, offer German language, have study abroad options for anyone interested, have excellent freshmen to sophomore retention rate, have a high percentage of grads who go on to masters and PhDs, must be in a safe area -- prefer rural or suburban to urban, residential housing available all four years; oh, and they should preferably be a supportive environment Liberal Arts College (although, he is considering Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology). Nice Russian and Chinese language programs would be nice too. Oh no, he's not picky at all. Oh well, back to the books!
Sorry, I took us way off topic! Thank you for the terrific discussion on the regions, though.
--Rhonda
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toobusytoday
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Posted: Tue Apr 25th, 2006 03:13 am |
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East of Pennsylvania? Like NJ?
Lafayette in Easton, PA is about 20 minutes from the NJ border. Well respected around here and known as a little less of a party school then it's big rival Lehigh. Boy, your son sure knows what he wants! Is that a specific school that you're describing and we get to guess what it is??
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westkymom
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Posted: Tue Apr 25th, 2006 03:53 am |
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...I wish! On his list is: Allegheny (PA), Denison (OH), Beloit (WI) though he's unsure how urban that is, Juniata (PA), Harvey Mudd (CA) which is really a tech school but access to Claremont Consortium keeps it on the list (it's also CLOSE to LA), and Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology (Indiana) which is definitely a tech school.
No, we had just written off the Northeast because we don't really know what the culture is like; it sounded too prestigious and exclusive for plain old midwesterners like us to have a chance at anyway, and the only schools that lept out at my son -- Colgate and Hamilton -- didn't offer a Bachelor of Science degree. Marlboro is a really remote possibility -- just don't know if my son (high school sophomore) is that independent, but we'll see if he wants to visit them when he's older.
I don't know if he's really considered Lafayette, but we'll check it out. Thanks for the suggestion.
--Rhonda
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toobusytoday
Member
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Posted: Tue Apr 25th, 2006 09:31 pm |
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"so you are really living in that fast paced semi urban/suburban atmosphere."
Took me a couple of days to think of a snappy comeback for that one.... Honest, even though we're not that far from Allentown, there is not a suburban atmosphere, definately not urban in my town. Nothing more then three stories and that would be the victorian houses or some new townhouses. In the fall we have Community Day where the crafters sell their crafts and the non-profits sell their stuff, our HS band plays and there's Pennsylvania Dutch food for sale. Third Saturday in September if anyone is in the neighborhood. In October there is a parade down main street where the marching bands and floats go through. A couple of weeks ago there was an Easter egg hunt at the park sponsored by the Kiwanis and HS key club. The library where I work is somewhat of a hot spot since we're in a new building and we have fun events weekly. Tonight, I'm going to participate in a book discussion group! I'm not going to say that we're poor, in fact my township has the highest new house avg. for the county but we're trying to hold onto the open space and the things that made many of us move here. Frankly, the future doesn't look that rosy. A new upscale mall is being built as we speak. If only there was a way to keep those fast talking city folks in the city...
Now Dorney Park, that is a pretty exciting place! When we found we were moving here several years ago, it was the lure of Dorney that made the move palatable for our young kids. But, apparently, it's too close. Our MS instrumental groups alternate between Six Flags in NJ and Hershey Park when they do their spring adjudications.
Weskymom, Looks like you have an interesting group of colleges to look at. Juniata and Allegheny were too isolated for my son but both look like such nice colleges. Can't wait to hear what you think!
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CarolynLawrence
Administrator
| Joined: | Sun Mar 5th, 2006 |
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Posted: Tue Apr 25th, 2006 09:53 pm |
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toobusytoday wrote: When we moved to this neighborhood almost 8 years ago, we had at least 6 families come to our door with food and offers of help moving in.
I've lived in my house for 18 years and two years in another Southern California neighborhood before that. We don't live in an urban neighborhood at all - in fact, it's a small town semi-rural area. I have had very limited contact with my neighbors. Not for lack of trying on my part, more like lack of interest on theirs (and yes, I have considered that maybe there is something obnoxious about me and my husband that has turned everyone off but I don't see a giant love fest in the neighborhood happening behind our backs either). I would be shocked if even one neighbor arrived on my doorstep with food, or even just showed up on my doorstep for a chat. Maybe there are parts of California where people do this sort of thing, but it ain't happening where I live. Last edited on Tue Apr 25th, 2006 09:55 pm by CarolynLawrence
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jadedog
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Posted: Tue Apr 25th, 2006 10:02 pm |
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Asdad wrote: Beloit College - When I get a letter from my D and in the middle she stops and writes "I love my school", then I love it too.
Same for me, except your D actually wrote you a letter!? I asked my S what his impression of the prospectives students was and whether it seemed as though most people were going to end up at Beloit and he replied: "I don't know why they wouldn't come. It's sweet here." This is high praise indeed from him. He is very happy, is growing and learning a lot.
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CalifCarolyn
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Posted: Wed Apr 26th, 2006 02:40 am |
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CarolynLawrence wrote:
I would be shocked if even one neighbor arrived on my doorstep with food, or even just showed up on my doorstep for a chat. Maybe there are parts of California where people do this sort of thing, but it ain't happening where I live.
Hey Carolyn it happens in my Southern Calif neighborhood..feel free to drop in on me if you are ever in Orange County
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toobusytoday
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Posted: Wed Apr 26th, 2006 05:23 pm |
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| Well, we do have a lively night life. Last night after my book discussion group at the library, I rushed home, parked the car and walked two doors up to my neighbors house. She was hosting our monthly bunco group and we were saying goodbye to one of our friends and neighbors who will be moving to Chicago/Indiana this weekend. This is a neighborhood bunco group that was started 13 years ago. Lots of laughter and some tears were shed. I've promised my friend that she'll find some new good friends in her new neighborhood. So, if any of you live in Indiana (about 45 minutes from Chicago) and see a moving van in your neighborhood, please go say hello - and take some brownies with you!
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DesperateDad
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Posted: Wed Apr 26th, 2006 05:41 pm |
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while I love the midwest, as well, let's get back on point
Dartmouth College: [to paraphrase Ike] It's what a college should feel like.
btw: Carolyn, this one item per college thing is tough!
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westkymom
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Posted: Wed Apr 26th, 2006 07:15 pm |
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I'm sorry we went so far off topic -- I'm probably the queen of tangents -- but I just want to acknowledge to toobusytoday, that your input has kept PA happily on my son's list. We're just small town folk (and my son lives in a cyberworld anyway ).
Last off topic note I promise, DesperateDad. (...well in this thread!)
--Rhonda
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InterestedDad
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Posted: Thu Apr 27th, 2006 06:28 am |
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westkymom wrote: I guess we (my son and I) need to quit fooling around with this issue and strike out into new territory. We need to go to the Northeast, rural and city, and find out. (Had to really twist my arm huh? ). Now we're back to the issue of finding colleges east of Pennsylvania, north of Virginia that offer a BS in Comp Sci (or Software Engineering, etc), that have less than 4000 students, are undergrad only, are challenging academically but not just a lottery to get into (like Harvard or MIT), where there are no TA's, where there are other strong science programs as back-up majors, have interesting history depts, offer German language, have study abroad options for anyone interested, have excellent freshmen to sophomore retention rate, have a high percentage of grads who go on to masters and PhDs, must be in a safe area -- prefer rural or suburban to urban, residential housing available all four years; oh, and they should preferably be a supportive environment Liberal Arts College (although, he is considering Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology). Nice Russian and Chinese language programs would be nice too. Oh no, he's not picky at all. Oh well, back to the books!
Swarthmore offers everything you listed except for two minor nits to pick:
a) In a suburb of Philadelphia, it's about 10 miles from New Jersey and is, therefore, not technically east of Pennsylvania.
b) There are two computer related academic paths; the Computer Science major grants a B.A. degree. Or, you could get a B.S. in Engineering with a concentration in computer engineering. There can be considerable overlap between the two.
Otherwise, everything on your list. 1400 undergrads. No TAs. Third highest per graduate PhD production in the country (behind CalTech and Harvey Mudd). Interesting History department. German, Russian, Chinese. Very strong science departments. Study abroad is a piece of cake, either in the colleges own programs (France, Poland, Ghana) or hundreds of approved programs. Very safe, very pretty suburban location, with easy access to Philadephia, NY, and Washington from a train station on campus. 15 minutes to the airport. Basically, everyone lives on campus all four years -- maybe 5% live in apartments in old houses adjoining campus. On-campus Housing is guaranteed. Freshman retention rate is 96% or 97%. Extremely supportive environment.
Hard to get into, but not quite as brutal as Harvard or MIT.
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westkymom
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Posted: Thu Apr 27th, 2006 07:21 am |
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InterestedDad,
We've heard wonderful things about Swarthmore -- from other forum members too -- in fact, that it's just about the best school you could hope for. We're just scared he's not a strong enough student (other than academically) to get in. Presently, he has picked Harvey Mudd (Claremont Consortium, CA) and Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology (Indiana) as his two reach schools -- he would definitely fit in as a "techie."
My (HS sophomore) son is very shy and has no extracurriculars at this point -- none worth counting anyway. Wouldn't it be impossible to get into Swarthmore without being strong in ECs? I expect he'll have all A's and B's, is taking every AP class he can get his hands on (emphasis in science and math) just for the love of learning, and I think he'll get his high test scores eventually -- and he's truly an intellect who is passionate about learning. He is a strong participant in his classes -- and he's very independent and assertive at home. But he has dug his heels in regarding ECs. He takes medicine for anxiety and it's a real process-stop concerning ECs. I don't really know anything about the "Eastern" Colleges, but without strong ECs could he even have a chance at any of those Eastern colleges (which we translate as prestigious)? You see, he wants the college to be very challenging academically, but he's not willing to do the ECs to help strengthen his application.
One other thing, he [illogically] balks at the 3-2 programs, but then excitedly talks about taking an extra year of undergrad LAC so that he'd have time to take any courses that interest him. I'd like him to also look at Colgate and Hamilton (he actually picked them out) and maybe Union (NY) -- but he wants that BS.
Thank you so much for helping us think about this. Any and all thoughts are deeply appreciated. My son listens with interest when I share your collective wisdom with him.
--Rhonda
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InterestedDad
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Posted: Thu Apr 27th, 2006 10:21 pm |
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westkymom wrote: Wouldn't it be impossible to get into Swarthmore without being strong in ECs?
Generally speaking, yes. It would be very difficult without something (and it could be just about anything) standing out on the application beyond pure classroom academics. It doesn't have to be standard ECs (and frankly, I don't think the typical newspaper editor, student council, etc. counts for much). Writing computer game software for fun could be the ticket, though.
The areas you mention (engineering, German, Russian) are three areas that Swarthmore has to actively target in the admissions process. I think a student expressing interest and a background in those fields would have an advantage over a bio, econ, poli sci type. That's why you really have to make a specific estimate for each student because the "odds" can vary quite a bit, even among two students that look similar on paper (GPA, test scores, etc.).
I also think that the same student with a lop-sided engineering/science application would have a better shot at Swarthmore than at Harvey Mudd, despite my belief that, overall, the two schools are pretty much equal in terms of admissions selectivity. It's my "reverse" commute philosophy. Find roads where the heaviest traffic is headed in the opposite direction during rush hour! Harvey Mudd gets essentially nothing but lop-sided techie types. Stop and go traffic, where at least it's moving along, albeit slowly, on the road to Swarthmore's engineering department.
Having said all that, I have no way of knowing whether Swarthmore would be a ridiculous reach or not.
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