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Mezzomom
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Posted: Fri Apr 14th, 2006 03:07 am |
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Otterbein College/Westerville, OH
This school started as my daughter's academic safety and moved up the list steadily over time. She HATES the fact that it's in Ohio (she originally wanted out of the midwest), but her reservations were overcome by the sheer niceness of everyone she's met...that and acceptance into the honors program and a FA package that is beyond generous.
Nice is a namby-pamby word that doesn't do justice to the folks we've met. From the chair of the theatre and dance department who arranged for a student tour when we visited in the summer, to the director of choral activities who sent an incredibly complimentary and thoughtful postcard to my daughter after her audition and has called on several occasions just in case my daughter had questions, to the admissions office which calls students with their acceptance information (the letter arrived a couple days later), to the chair of the music department who comped our tickets when he found out we were coming down to attend a student opera production, to the manager of the bookstore who took 20 minutes giving me a verbal fashion show when I wanted to order a hoodie...I swear there's something in Westerville's water! And that's just the adults; my daughter was surprised at how well she clicked with the students she met. Otterbein draws heavily from Ohio, but the music and MT departments are more geographically diverse, and my daughter definitely felt like she had found "her people" in those particular areas.
So be forewarned, there's an Otterbein troll in your midst !
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jocelynDAD
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Posted: Sun Apr 16th, 2006 02:47 am |
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Allegheny College - They worked with my 4th S when he was struggling with the academic side of college. He was a lazy student and would take the easy way.
The faculty and administration were patient and although it took 5 and a half years and one semester away from campus, he finally got the message and graduated.
So in a nutshell - patience and understanding.
Lafayette College - Both S1 and S2 graduated from here. They were very different persons, but both found separate paths at Lafayette. Each changed majors at least once and that was no problem or loss of credits. They were only one year apart, but each has distinctly different impressions of their time at Lafayette, one was big on frats and sports the other heavy into intellectual pursuits, not into frats, but both enjoyed success and graduated on time.
So - the flexibility to be an individual and different yet succeed.
Washington University (St Louis) S3 loved Wash U period. The atmosphere, the academics, the frat life (he was on the Council his last two years). the friends, he just had a great time.
So - a truly great place for our S, it was a happy time and place for him.
DePaul in Chicago - our eldest D graduated as an older student - She is seeking her Master's at DePaul. She rates the faculty and the administration as being both first rate as well as caring and concered even though she was older and taking classes at odd times (mornings and evenings) fitted around her work schedule.
St Olaf - D2 will attend in the fall, right now it has been the friendliest campus IMO.
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jocelynDAD
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Posted: Sun Apr 16th, 2006 02:47 am |
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Last edited on Mon Apr 17th, 2006 09:34 am by jocelynDAD
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Wendy (wjb)
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Posted: Mon Apr 17th, 2006 01:59 am |
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Washington U. in St. Louis: For my daughter, the best thing about Wash U (and there are many good things about Wash U) is its distinctly Midwestern feel – hard to describe, but very real. Students are bright, but also (in general) non-competitive, open-minded, non-clique-y. My daughter, who transferred after a false start her first year, easily made friends (a somewhat daunting task for a transfer) and is enjoying the social fluidity she missed at her first school, an eastern LAC.
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Pye
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| Joined: | Mon Mar 6th, 2006 |
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Posted: Tue Apr 18th, 2006 02:46 pm |
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Wendy,
I teach American Culture and am particularly interested in U.S. regional differences.
Could you tell me more about what you mean by"Midwestern feel" compared to "East Coast feel"?
If not appropriate on this thread, you ( and others?) could e-mail me at m.caliban@googlemail.com
Thanks,
Pye
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Wendy (wjb)
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Posted: Tue Apr 18th, 2006 06:17 pm |
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Pye -- To avoid dulling the senses of other readers with my strikingly regional response, I have e-mailed you.
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westkymom
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Posted: Tue Apr 18th, 2006 07:51 pm |
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Wendy,
If it would not be intruding on your conversation with Pye, would you please send me a copy of your response as well. Half the reason my son has not applied on the East coast is because "the East Coast feel" is an unknown to us. We are familiar with all parts of the U.S. except New England. I'm familiar with Virginia and south, but don't know a thing about north of VA.
Thanks,
--Rhonda
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skibum
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Posted: Tue Apr 18th, 2006 09:16 pm |
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Actually, Wendy, I wonder if you would be willing to write your thoughts here rather than to send them back-channel. I think the perspectives would be extremely helpful/interesting, and I don't think you'd get anybody's hackles up. Besides, westkymom and I are right here reading with our "visiting mod" fingers on the "delete" button (jk)
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Wendy (wjb)
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Posted: Tue Apr 18th, 2006 09:24 pm |
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I will PM you, Rhonda, but I do want to say that I think it’s impossible (and a mistake) to generalize about the “feel” at any one particular college in any geographic area, especially small colleges. LACS, even those in the same geographic area, can have widely divergent “feels,” i.e., cultures. In the northeast, Colgate and Vassar come to mind. Both in the same state, both terrific academically, but each attracts a distinct crowd, one preppy/athletic/ relatively apolitical, the other artsy/diverse/politically liberal. So the trick with small schools, wherever they may be, is to discern what the predominant culture is, and figure out whether it works for you. I think a good and cheap place to start is by reading the student newspaper. Most schools have their papers online. Over time, you can get a real sense of the hot issues/interests on campus.
So don’t dismiss the east coast out of hand! Evaluate schools carefully. Despite his sister’s experience, my son the 10th grader will most definitely be looking at East coast colleges. But boy, do we ever understand the need to assess the prevailing culture on each campus.
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Wendy (wjb)
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Posted: Tue Apr 18th, 2006 09:47 pm |
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OK guys, here goes. But no flames, please. Did I mention that my closest friend is from the East coast? Really.
First, I’ll admit my bias; I’m a native Chicagoan and a life-long Midwesterner. As you may or may not know from my postings on CC, my daughter spent her first year of college at Colgate. She transferred to Wash U this year, so she’s had experience attending an LAC with an entrenched East coast culture of the uber preppy/athletic/hard-drinking variety and a mid-sized research U with a distinctly Midwestern "feel." (And a school the size of Wash U necessarily has no overriding culture.) She suffered a moderate case of culture shock in the land of the popped collars, and that was part of the reason she transferred.
For her, one of Wash U’s biggest attractions was that it let her return to the Midwest. The infusion of Midwestern values you necessarily get at a Midwestern school is, for her, an intangible benefit, but tough to describe. As her year at Colgate unfolded, we spent quite a bit of time trying to define Midwestern culture. It’s hard to do. What I am about to say is a broad generalization, neither universally applicable nor the least bit scientific. We think that, in comparison to folks from the East, Midwesterners are generally more down-to-earth, more friendly, and more open; and less competitive, less exclusive, and less pretentious than average. We describe Chicago as like New York, only smaller and with people who make eye contact. Maybe it’s because few of us have that Eastern lineage that would allow us to make any claim to distinction!
Example: At Colgate, my daughter quickly made a really nice circle of friends (all of whom were from the East). But she said that the unwritten rule was “stay with your clique.” No one from your gang there when you went to the cafeteria for lunch? Eat alone or skip a meal. Much less cliqueish-ness, much more social fluidity at Wash U.
And all that said, we know lots of kids from around here who are at Eastern schools and extremely happy. My 10th grade son will definitely be looking at schools outside the Midwest. The fact is, Colgate was just a bad choice for my petunia.
Does this help at all, or do I sound hopelessly chauvinistic and provincial?
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CaneMom
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Posted: Tue Apr 18th, 2006 11:22 pm |
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Wendy, first let me say, excellent! I think you nailed it right on the head. Belive me, by looking at my profile you can see where we are. Everywhere. I've lived North, South, East and West. Grew up in the midwest. There are different "attitudes" everywhere. Heck, there is a different "attitude" of folks even when you don't leave the state of Illinois. People can't be more different than comparing those of Chicago from those of Carbondale. I can't say that one attitude is better or one is worse, but I can say without hesitation that they are different. And to be able to articulate it in writing is darn near impossible. Good job.
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skibum
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Posted: Wed Apr 19th, 2006 11:02 am |
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Wendy,
Thanks for sharing your observations and experiences. Funny you should use Colgate and Vassar as examples, as I am quite familiar with both (and graduated from one of them!) I almost went to grad school at WashU (but when I went to visit they had me paired for the day with a grad student who was pretty miserable, so, needless to say, he didn't get me too excited abut the program), so I ended up in the South, and here I stay. I did my grad work in Fla, which is almost like being in NY, except the weather is nicer and you have to dodge alligators. One state away, here in Atlanta, things are quite different. Regional differences are fascinating, and as you said, colleges, even near each other, will be quite diffferent in "feel".
My older s. found that the best book that gave him the "feel" of what it was like at many of the schools he was considering was the Yale Daily New's "Insiders Guide to Colleges". It does a remarkable job of hitting the nail on the head. It is written annually from information from enrolled students. I was amazed by the fact that things hadn't seemed to have changed all that much at the schools I attended many moons ago. Anyway, the book describes the college life, the student population, the academic life, the hangouts, etc. Where the Fiske guide is, for lack of a better word, more likely to be recommended by parents and gc's (guidance counselors), the Insiders Guide is by and for the students. For those of you wanting to get a quick "read" on a school take a look at the Yale guide-- I highly recommend it.
Last edited on Wed Apr 19th, 2006 11:13 am by skibum
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toobusytoday
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Posted: Wed Apr 19th, 2006 02:18 pm |
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I am a Delaware native but now call Pennsylvania my home. I always have a hard time relating when people talk about the feel of the Northeast. Does one mean New England (Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont, Rhode Island), the mid-atlantic states (NY, PA, NJ, MD, NJ and DE) or all of them? Do you mean the city schools in NYC, Philadelphia and Boston or are you talking about small colleges throughout this region or do you mean the state schools in the SUNY system? I think that city schools anywhere in the country would have more in common then say Drexel and Bucknell. Penn State and Ohio State probably have more in common then Ohio State and Denison University.
Now that I've got that off my chest, I'll comment on my daughters college! The best thing about my daughters college (Principia, in SW Illinois) is the positive vibe. Because it's so small there is no getting lost - or hiding! - in a classroom. There are high expectations but help is available for anyone that struggles. I also like how the majority (three-fourths) go on a study abroad. The way they handle the study abroads is pretty cool too. They go with the professors from a certain major. If there's room students from outside the major can go too. My daughter (who is an ed and sociology/anthropology major) was able to hop into the Spanish abroad to Peru and should come back fairly fluent in Spanish.
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atlantamom
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Posted: Wed Apr 19th, 2006 08:35 pm |
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I just have to add my 2 cents! I hate generalizations BUT when I graduated from Vanderbilt eons ago and went to graduate school at the University of Illinois, I felt the difference in the midwestern and southern cultures immediately. I continued to live in the midwest for 7 years and then moved back south, where I still live 25 years later. I LOVE the midwest! In my experience, midwesterners are very down-to-earth and unpretenscious. They are friendly too -- not in a fake or over-the-top way -- genuine.
The South -- I know it best and think that it is a complex place. Would take me an essay to get at being Southern.
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Asdad
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Posted: Thu Apr 20th, 2006 11:30 am |
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I have two kids that got/went to schools in the midwest from the South. They both have nothing but positive things to say.
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Pye
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Posted: Thu Apr 20th, 2006 04:44 pm |
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Thanks to Wendy, Asdad, skibum, toobusy, Atlantamom for sharing your views and helping my research -- more easy-going openness vs. competitiveness seems to come up a lot on the Midwest/East Coast Spectrum. I grew up in New York City and attended college mostly in New England--in later life have had a number of Midwestern friends. I would say for New York that it is faster-paced than almost anywhere else and yes, competitive and I have found Midwesterners to be unpretentious and open. New Englanders more reserved than New Yorkers. On the positive side-- we East coasters are outspoken (in urban areas) with strong opinions, very tolerant of diversity, like a good argument or debate, and tend to find the Midwest too flat, too bland, too "white bread", lacking in exotic spices, unusual ethnic foods ( this may be in the process of changing now), creative chaos, foreign and experimental films, the avant-garde and bohemian tastes and daily challenges demanding fast thinking and keen wits. People in the Midwest seem less cynical and ironic, more down-to-earth and straightforward. Also the East has been somewhat more successful in maintaining cities that still have viable downtowns and places to shop (window shop) that are not mega-malls. That's my 5 or 10 cents worth!
Would be happy to hear more of your thoughts, prejudices and over-generalizations on regions --here or on PM or e-mail as above.
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atlantamom
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Posted: Thu Apr 20th, 2006 05:01 pm |
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Pye, I think you did a great job of pointing out some of the differences between the midwest and the east coast that highlights some of the very positive aspects of the east coast. At least one midwestern city is similar to the east coast cities, however. I lived in Chicago for 4 years and found that city to be wonderfully diverse and full of interesting art, theatre, restaurants, etc. As far as tolerance goes, I was a bit dismayed by some of the strife between groups, but that was a long time ago. I don't know if that strife has lessened or intensified. I also don't know how to compare Chicago to northeastern cities, except Boston, with which I have a lot of familiarity. Boston and Chicago seem very similar to me. I've had various personal experiences with the smaller towns in the midwest over the years and will agree that the life there can be provincial, but I have loved the folks. I don't know what small town life in the northeast is like, however, and cannot compare.
Many of my friends over the years have been and are from the east coast. I think highly of them and agree with your positive characterizations.
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Wendy (wjb)
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Posted: Thu Apr 20th, 2006 05:53 pm |
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Interesting observations, everybody.
Searching the Midwest for “exotic spices, unusual ethnic foods, creative chaos, foreign and experimental films, the avant-garde and bohemian tastes?” Come to Chicago, Pye! Really, it’s all here. Same variety, same quality as NY, just on a smaller and more manageable scale.
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Pye
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Posted: Thu Apr 20th, 2006 07:07 pm |
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Yes, Wendy, I'm sure that's true of Chicago--I am an avid fan of the V.I. Warshawski detective stories, which convey that sense of the city. My characterization was more of suburban to rural Midwest, including some Chicago suburbs though.My college roommate was from Kenilworth. One difference between the two cities--NY vs. Chicago seems to be that in Chicago, middle class people drive to where they're going while in Manhattan people still walk and take the subway or bus or perhaps hail a cab. Can you actually hail a cab in Chicago? Also I get the sense that Chicago is about ethnic neighborhoods--we have those in NYC, of course --but we also have communities with about 15 different ethnicities living together in the same apartment building and where you regularly hear 5 to 10 different languages being spoken on the streets within two or three blocks. I have fond memories of a St. Patrick's day when my D attended a New York public school for several months: I saw an Indian woman dressed in a sari bringing her child dressed in bright green to school and leaving him with the other "green" children--Hispanic, black, Korean, Turkish, Armenian as well as Irish.
Last edited on Thu Apr 20th, 2006 07:25 pm by Pye
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Wendy (wjb)
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Posted: Thu Apr 20th, 2006 09:19 pm |
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You can easily hail a cab in the heart of Chicago – the Loop, the Gold Coast, Mag Mile – and in some of the busier neighborhoods – Streeterville, Lincoln Park, River North, etc. Beyond that, you need to phone for a cab, or use Chicago's great public transportation, or drive (and pay exhorbitant fees for valet parking). But you are quite right, Pye, that Chicago is more about individual ethnic neighborhoods than pan-ethnic neighborhoods (which makes Chicago more like Boston than NYC, I suspect.) There is at least one area I can think of, though, that can be described as pan-ethnic on a modest scale, and that is on the Far North Side (Devon Ave.), which is home to a large Indian and Pakistani community, a large Orthodox Jewish community, and a smaller Caribbean community.
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