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Wstrdg
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Posted: Mon Mar 17th, 2008 02:57 pm |
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An update on the BOARS proposal to drop the SAT subject test requirement:
http://www.universityofcalifornia.edu/senate/underreview/sw.rev.eligibility.02.08.pdf
And an article about the proposal: http://insidehighered.com/news/2008/03/17/uc
I'd have to agree that the tests do add value to applicants to the impacted engineering programs, especially since the Math and Science subject tests are currently only "recommended" and not strictly required:
Brown said that as the idea has been discussed among various faculty groups, there was some concern from engineering professors that admissions offices might lack necessary information about applicants for their programs. Brown said that before making the most recent recommendation, the professors studying the issue ran testing models to identify the predictive value gained for engineering applicants, and while it found slightly more value than for other students, the value was still extremely small. In addition, Brown noted that the proposal going forward gives departments or programs the right to recommend specific tests from the SAT subject portfolio. Generally, Brown said, when programs make such recommendations, applicants follow them, and this might create the possibility for the test being used in a far more limited way.
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CarolynLawrence
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Posted: Mon Mar 17th, 2008 04:59 pm |
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Thanks for posting this Wstrdg. I think this is about more than just dropping the subject exams, however. The proposal basically would change the structure of who is eligible for admission to the UC. Anyone with a a-g unweighted GPA of 2.9 who takes the SAT or ACT would be eligible to apply, and they'd be guaranteed admission if they were in the top 12.5% of their high school class or in the top 5% of students statewide based on their weighted a-g GPA and test scores. So, in essence, this would put less weight on standardized tests overall (or at least that is how I am reading it).
As the article noted, however, the UC's are pretty slow to make major policy changes, so this probably won't happen for next year....still, one never knows.
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Wstrdg
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Posted: Mon Mar 17th, 2008 06:08 pm |
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| Yes, this will make a major change in eligiblity. On page 5 (of the 168 page PDF) they say that historically, changes are implemented so as not to impact current 10th graders.
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CarolynLawrence
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Posted: Mon Mar 17th, 2008 09:17 pm |
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| Heh, heh, you made it all the way to page 168, uh? Thanks for pointing that out. I don't want to get my juniors all riled up unnecessarily.
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Wstrdg
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Posted: Mon Mar 17th, 2008 10:57 pm |
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well, I'm getting to page 168 . . . 
if you're short on time, the summary is on page 8
an interesting factoid: the report found that 15% of applicants who were Calif residents were NOT UC-qualified, and the great majority of these were rejected. that seems to weigh heavily in the decision to ease the stringency of the a-g requirements and eliminate the subject tests
I also found it interesting that the report admits that a-by-e is kept "behind the curtain," and they praised UCSC for applying a-by-e as it was intended. (pg 6)
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lfm
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Posted: Mon Mar 17th, 2008 11:42 pm |
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I made it through page 48 to find the info I wanted. My son applied to four UCs with Entrance by Exam. The report says that only 200-300 applicants use this each year, and that would explain why no one at the UCs really know about it.
The new plan would make the Exam only option more common, which would be useful for my daughter.
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Wstrdg
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Posted: Tue Mar 18th, 2008 02:17 am |
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I made it through page 48
Yoo-hoo!! Go lfm! E-byE was the entrance for my son, too! 48 pages, you rock, girl!
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Wstrdg
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Posted: Tue Mar 18th, 2008 06:08 pm |
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I love this quote, speaking about the complexities of the current UC a-g policy:
“. . . [W]ithout the guidance of competent (and available) counselors, high school students could hardly be expected to know and understand all the intricacies of the a-g policy, particularly beginning in the ninth grade when students must establish themselves on a trajectory to complete a-g by graduation. It is ironic that, while UC is the only public university in the nation that maintains a course-certification and coursework policy like a-g, California ranks 50th among the states in student-counselor ratio.”
(from page 45 of the 168 page PDF)
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CarolynLawrence
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Posted: Tue Mar 18th, 2008 06:21 pm |
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| That quote made ME laugh out loud. I've been studying UC admissions for several years and work at a high school that is run by a UC, with full access to UC admissions people, yet myself and my co-counselor still feel stumped sometimes by the intricacies of UC admissions. I'm for reform as long as it makes it EASIER for students, parents (and counselors!) to understand, not harder.
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leftcoast
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Posted: Tue Mar 18th, 2008 09:20 pm |
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That's a great quote, Wstrdg -- but I have to say that the a-g requirements were well-publicized at the public schools my kids attended. And the school curriculum was structured around those requirements -- it would have been very difficult for my kids to meet their respective high school graduation requirements without completing the required coures.
The problem we encountered -- and where the poor counselor/student ratios really hurt - was when it came to planning for anything OUTSIDE the UC/CSU system.
I think the standardization of the course requirements makes it relatively easy for counselors to disseminate info -- after all, its the same for everyone -- but their caseloads mean that they do not have much time to research or learn about other colleges or issues like financial aid for private schools, scholarships, etc.
I do think it is difficult to understand all of the details in terms of UC's formula and point systems for a student to guage chances of admission to specific campuses -- but the eligibility requirements are rather clear, the UC Pathways web site provides a calculator to determine required GPA in light of test scores, and the online application lets students fill in the form using a drop down list keyed to their specific high school. So I think they've done a pretty good job with smoothing the application process.
I do think that the SAT II's present an extra barrier in terms of the need to schedule exams, and that is probably where lack of good advising has more impact. It's easy to miss deadlines for signing up for tests, or simply run short of funds for required test fees.
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Wstrdg
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Posted: Wed Mar 19th, 2008 02:01 am |
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The quoted section is critical not of the basic a-g requirements in and of themselves, but of the varied ways to meet those requirements, other than taking the 15 a-g's in grades 9-12 and passing each one with a C or better.
For example, LOTE and math courses can be taken in middle school. Passing grades in higher math can remedy D's and F's in lower math. SAT subject scores can remedy deficiencies, as can college classes. But it's not simple to find the exact info you need for a specific situation.
And an even more widespread problem, according to the BOARS report, is that high schools are not updating their Doorways a-g lists.
And I doubt if most students even know of Doorways, let alone check it, when submitting each year's high school class schedule, beginning in the spring of 8th grade.
I have checked our high school each year with Doorways, and it's up to date, in agreement with the high school catalog.
The current system is too convoluted, with all of the risk resting upon the student. And the info is not widely disseminated. The BOARS report readily admits that E-by-E and A-by-E are not advertised as routes to admission. You have to dig, and dig alot.
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