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globetrotter
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Posted: Tue Jan 22nd, 2008 09:49 pm |
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How can you get a sense if one is more suited than the other for your child.
Her freshman year my daughter scored a 30 on the ACT with sub-scores of 32 Eng/28 Math/33 Reading/26 science.
As a sophomore this year she scored 71 CR/ 66 M/ 690 W on the PSATs.
She would like to self-prep for them next year, but doesn't know which to focus on more. I have seen some conversion charts, but still can't get a sense of which would be better for her.
Can anyone steer in the right direction? Thanks.
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DesperateDad
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Posted: Tue Jan 22nd, 2008 11:20 pm |
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A 206 Soph psat is an excellent score (a 200 Jr. year is top 5% in the nation), and your D has a real shot a NMSF, depending on your state. If she is gonna do summer prep, I'd recommend the SAT, since it will also serve as ACT prep, and she'd have a shot at merit money from those schools that target NMSF's. The SAT math is a little more "tricky" for lack of a better word (or 'visual' or requires more 'logic') than the ACT, which is more straightforward but requries more speed. Thus, learning the logic/tricks of the SAT makes the ACT math that much easier, IMO.
Of course, the plus side for the ACT is that some colleges will accept it in lieu of SAT + Subject Tests. But, since she's in the running for National Merit, I'd lean towards SAT first.
btw: ACT science is really a speed test of reading graphs and charts, and requires its own strategy. Princeton Review offers great tips for the ACT science section. It shouldn't take much effort for your D to increase that science score.
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CarolynLawrence
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Posted: Wed Jan 23rd, 2008 12:45 am |
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| Her scores are pretty comparable if you allow for the fact that she took the ACT freshman year and the PSAT in sophomore year. If she's game, I'd have her take both at least once, and see how they turn out, then focus on retaking the one she felt most comfortable with. Don't forget, however, that she may also need the SAT Subject exams for some colleges even if she takes just the ACT, so plan accordingly.
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globetrotter
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Posted: Wed Jan 23rd, 2008 04:35 pm |
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Thanks, Desp. Dad and Carolyn.
D-Dad's plan sounds good. She will prep over the summer for SAT and take the PSAT in the fall. I have copied much of the test prep advice that appears on this site and sent it to her, and placed a large order to Amazon, including PR (thanks Desp.Dad!) to help with both tests.
We will have her take the ACT again -- this time with some preparation, especially for the science portion.
She does appear to be willing to study for and take both of the tests, because she feels like her test scores will be looked at more closely, because of her untraditional schooling and the paucity of actual graded courses on her transcript.
What she does NOT want to do, is retake the Latin Subject test. She took that in December and received a 700. She is fervently hoping that this will be "good enought" -- any thoughts on this?
She is also petrified of the science SAT subject tests, but hasn't even taken a practice test there, so we don't know how she would do. How would it look if she didn't submit any science test? Would it be okay, if she were able to pull up the ACT science portion significantly?
Thanks, everyone!
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Consolation
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Posted: Thu Jan 24th, 2008 05:00 pm |
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According to what I've read from all sources, the ACT science section does not requireactual knowlege of the sciences: the whole thing is about an ability to interpret the graphs they show you.
Most schools that require SATIIs probably *prefer* one from the humanities/social sciences and one from the math/science area, although they often say "any two." For those, your daughter could take Math IIC (after precalc) or the like. Of if she really doesn't like Math science, she could take a social science, such as history. The usual recommendation is to take the SATII after completing the relevant course. (How that fits with your daighter's course of study is another matter.) There are still a few schools that require 3 SATIIs, and a few that require specific ones. Some of the combined under grad/premed programs require certain sciences and maths, as do some of the engineering/technical-oriented schools.
I've also read that for homeschoolers it can be advisable to take more SATIIs, because it places their work in context and/or validates it against an established standard.
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WestrnMom
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Posted: Thu Jan 24th, 2008 08:18 pm |
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We also found that SAT prep carried over to the ACT, with the exception of science. I looked at the test prep materials. The ACT science focuses more on the ability to understand graphs and scientific data than actual knowledge of science. I find it to be a much more accessible test for most of the students I've worked with (they have LDs for the most part, some are ADD/ADHD) with accommodations. Without the accommodations, students must have the ability to work quickly. A benefit is that incorrect answers are not counted against students, where they are on the SAT.
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globetrotter
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Posted: Thu Jan 24th, 2008 08:32 pm |
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Thanks, Consolation and WesternMom. It certainly is good to know that the SAT prep will benefit ACT, as well. Consolation, you are right about the SAT IIs and homeschoolers -- Pomona requires 4 of them for homeschoolers, and a Georgetown rep. told us they would like to see "like 6"...
My daughter will augment the SAT prep with specific prep for the science portion of the ACT.
Claremont McKenna requires a Math SAT II, so it looks like she will take that. (She has already taken the Latin SAT II, and will likely take the World History one, as well. She has taken a lot of history and will continue to do so, but I think she may try to prep specifically for the test. I am hoping that there is a good book out there for that.
She could always take the German test, for whatever it is worth. And we are hoping to get away with Community College class grades for sciences, instead of taking the subject tests, but maybe we are just being paranoid about the tests. The thing that makes the SAT tests so stressful is the lack of score choice.
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DesperateDad
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Posted: Thu Jan 24th, 2008 09:13 pm |
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Globetrotter: no need to fret over Subject Tests since your D can self-test at home. Just pick-up CB's Real Subject Tests (whatever the current version), and take a test on a Saturday morning, under timed conditions. The score achieved at home should be a good indicator of the actual score -- of course, everyone reacts differently with under real stress/endorphins. While not necessarily easy, the math-science subject tests are consistent over different test dates; while the CR and Lit tests are supposed to be consistent, one big difference is that some of the passages are just so BORING, a kid can barely stay awake while reading them, much less focus to answer questions. 
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globetrotter
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Posted: Thu Jan 24th, 2008 09:53 pm |
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| Great advice, Dad. CB book has been ordered, and we will schedule in some test runs. I did not know how reliable a predictor the practice tests were, but we will give them a try in any case. Thanks!
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Northeastmom
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Posted: Thu Jan 24th, 2008 11:40 pm |
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| D'dad, about the science section, are you referring to the Princeton Review book to prep for the ACT? Thanks.
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DesperateDad
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Posted: Thu Jan 24th, 2008 11:52 pm |
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| NE mom: yes, like xiggi, I recommend only using material from CB or ACT for actual practice tests (since they write the real thing). But, for test-taking strategies, particuarly for the Science section, I like Princeton Review. For example, ACT will not tell you the best way to tackle the time-consuming "dueling scientists" questions, but PR has a nice strategy for attack them, or skip 'em and focus getting all the other ones right. However, a lot is just personal preference: your child may prefer Kaplan's discussion over PR's, or Barron's 'hardness.'
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mackinaw
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Posted: Fri Jan 25th, 2008 12:17 am |
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I concur that there is a certain amount of transferability of skills across these exams. Just pay attention to the different penalties (incentives) for guessing. The idea of taking 'real' exams while using PR for tactics and tricks is a good one.
(My D used this approach recently in prepping for the GMAT, which is used for MBA admissions. An on-line PR course (with multiple practice tests), along with a book, did the trick. A friend of hers who was prepping for the GRE even used a few hours of the PR GMAT course for that purpose (hours that my D didn't use up but had purchased). She did well, too.))
Last edited on Fri Jan 25th, 2008 12:35 am by mackinaw
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Northeastmom
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Posted: Fri Jan 25th, 2008 02:18 am |
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D'dad, Thank you for clarifying.
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Fireflyscout
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Posted: Wed Apr 23rd, 2008 01:51 am |
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Was doing some googling and found this site that offers a very good analysis of the differences of the tests and which works better for what kind of student:
http://www.appelrouthtutoring.com/jedsaid.php?article=jul2006
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CarolynLawrence
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Posted: Wed Apr 23rd, 2008 02:55 am |
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| Interesting article, although I disagree with a few of his points. In particular, I wouldn't say that it is "extremely difficult" to get testing accomodations for the ACT. Getting extended time is a pretty straight forward process as long as you have a written IEP already in place to send them, and they are a little more flexible, in my experience, in terms of last minute requests for accomodations than the College Board is. But, that is just my experience with the students I've worked with so maybe I have just been lucky -- have others have had different experiences? Would love to know. Last edited on Wed Apr 23rd, 2008 02:57 am by CarolynLawrence
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Northeastmom
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Posted: Sun Apr 27th, 2008 02:48 pm |
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| Do you find a bias for the SAT over the ACT in some parts of the country with respect to admissions? For example, lets say a student applies to a school in the New England area and only submits ACTs with writing. Another applicant submits SAT scores and the writing test. Both students have the same scores and same gpa from similar high schools and have similar ECs. Does the applicant who submitted SATs have an advantage over the student who submitted ACTs if both applicants are from a northeastern state, lets say Connecticut for this example?
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scoop
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Posted: Sun Apr 27th, 2008 11:44 pm |
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| We are Connecticut residents and my daughter is likely to score higher on the ACT, given what I have learned about both tests. Since she would like to stay in the NE, I have wondered the same thing. Our guidance department says that there is no bias.
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Northeastmom
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Posted: Mon Apr 28th, 2008 12:01 am |
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| Scoop I really thought that there is no bias, but I am still reading that some suspect a bias. I would like to read more opinions about this. This has me nervous, because my son plans to only take the ACT. I really don't want to drive him crazy by preparing for and taking both of these tests. Last edited on Mon Apr 28th, 2008 12:02 am by Northeastmom
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scoop
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Posted: Mon Apr 28th, 2008 03:32 pm |
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| I do know a couple of kids who submitted only ACT scores to schools in the NE. They were admitted and offered merit money. These kids took both tests but only submitted their better score, which happened to be on the ACT.
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Northeastmom
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Posted: Mon Apr 28th, 2008 11:37 pm |
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| Thanks, scoop.
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