| Author | Post |
|---|
PrimetimeMom
Member
| Joined: | Mon Mar 6th, 2006 |
| Location: | Los Angeles |
| Posts: | 158 |
| Mana: |    |
|
Posted: Mon May 8th, 2006 11:12 pm |
|
My sophmore son attends a very competitive private prep school. He has been there since preschool.
He applied last year for the AP History course and then again this year. He has an A in World History and a 97 GPA. He worked really hard this year. He's not a good test taker or a natural student but he put in the work and saw the results. There were only three spots available as the rest were filled by kids continuing in AP from last year.
When he got in the car, he mumbled that he thinks it's because he didn't do well on the placement test. Why would they need a placement test if he has an A in the class? I'm clueless about AP's, and would appreciate if anyone can clue me in.
I feel bad for him and I guess I just needed to vent here. I have a call in to his advisor to see what the situation is as well.
|
Wstrdg
Member
| Joined: | Mon Mar 6th, 2006 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 397 |
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Mon May 8th, 2006 11:42 pm |
|
Why don't you support him in taking the "regular" history course and then sitting for the AP exam next May? His school is "encouraged" by the College Board to take extra kids (homeschoolers or self-study) at test time. He'll need to watch for sign up dates (January to March).
Go to collegeboard.com and register as a teacher. This is legit and gives you access to the various AP course syllabi. Read the course description and syllabi (there are usually two for each AP course.) Read the old exam questions/scoring rubric.
Now go to the bookstore and check out Barron's and Princeton Review. You didn't say whether this was WHAP, PUSH or Euro but Bs and PR are good for both. Does this look like something your son would enjoy? Pay special attention to the DBQ's as this is something he probably hasn't done before and it's a huge part of the final grade.
The way I see it, he has nothing to lose. If he doesn't like his AP score, he doesn't report it. If it's good, he adds it to his application, even though his transcript doesn't show credit for the course. And it shows the admissions officers that he is resourceful, independent, a self-starter, great singing voice, handsome, etc. 
Nobody has to know (classmate or teacher) until he shows up next May and writes his way to a 5! You could even test at a different school -- the College Board phone operator will help you find a location based on your zip code. They want to sell you an exam, after all. 
|
PrimetimeMom
Member
| Joined: | Mon Mar 6th, 2006 |
| Location: | Los Angeles |
| Posts: | 158 |
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Mon May 8th, 2006 11:56 pm |
|
Wow, wstrdg what a creative and wonderful idea. Thank you! I knew someone here would have a great suggestion
|
mathmom
Member
| Joined: | Fri Apr 14th, 2006 |
| Location: | USA |
| Posts: | 260 |
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Tue May 9th, 2006 12:51 am |
|
PrimetimeMom wrote: Why would they need a placement test if he has an A in the class? I'm clueless about AP's, and would appreciate if anyone can clue me in.
Some schools only want to teach a certain number of sections of AP classes and end up limiting class sizes. Other schools are concerned that kids taking the class are capable of doing well on the exams. AP courses (especially history) tend to cover alot of material and kids need to be good at timed tests and writing essays on the spot. Our school has placement tests in both history and english. I think if a student cares enough though they could certainly try to petition their way into the class. Wstrdog's suggestion is good though if they won't let your child take the course.
|
CarolynLawrence
Administrator
| Joined: | Sun Mar 5th, 2006 |
| Location: | USA |
| Posts: | 3197 |
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Tue May 9th, 2006 01:58 am |
|
Primetimemom, I'm so sorry for your son. It is crazy that some schools set such impossible standards for AP entrance and other schools seem to take all comers.
You might try calling the guidance office and asking if there is any way he can be placed in the class, regardless of his results on the placement exam.
At my children's school - which is also private - parents and students can sign a "contract" that says they understand they haven't met the requirements for the AP or Honors class but want to take it anyhow, and will not drop out even if they find the work too hard.
You might ask if this is possible at your son's school --- this is not "publicized" at our school. I only found out about it when my daughter's 10th grade English teacher refused to give her permission for daughter to go on to Honors English in 11th because she had a B+ in the class instead of the required A -. Ironically, it was my daughter's 10th grade AP Euro teacher - who felt this was nonsense and that my daughter was perfectly capable of taking Honors English - who told me about the "secret contract."
By the way, she did just fine in Honors English and was automatically moved into AP English this year. (And even more ironic: the same English teacher had my son this year. When he got a B on his quarter report, I was sure she was going to say he couldn't go into Honors English either. But, guess what - she called and told me that she thought he was "lazy" but "qualified" and thus had signed his approval form. She seemed to have no recall that my daughter had to get a contract with a higher grade than my son. In my opinion, this only highlights the capricious nature of some of these "decisions.")
If that fails, I like the suggestion of self-studying for the exam. But you could also see if he'd be interested in taking a history class at the local community college. Perhaps the school would even give him credit for the class that way and let him take an elective in the history class slot.
In short, tell your son that there is always more than one way to skin a cat. 
Last edited on Tue May 9th, 2006 01:59 am by CarolynLawrence
|
PrimetimeMom
Member
| Joined: | Mon Mar 6th, 2006 |
| Location: | Los Angeles |
| Posts: | 158 |
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Tue May 9th, 2006 02:39 am |
|
Carolyn I will pursue this tommorrow with the school and see if any options are available.
I think the issue is that they only have three openings for the class - not that he isn't qualified to take the class, but that other kids are more qualified. I do not normally get involved but I think it's warranted in this case. My thought is that the placement test score may have been lower than the other applicants. I can't imagine that it was poor though, History is his passion and one of his best subjects.
My son spoke to his regular History teacher and the teacher said he gave him his highest recommendation for the AP class. He was told by his Advisor that the "administration" makes the decision who get's accepted.
I have to say that I am a little more than perturbed at paying sky high prices to be told that there are only three slots available in the class. If he does not get in this year then chances are even less he will get in next year.
The poor kid was visibly upset when he told me - it broke my heart after all his hard work. He was planning on taking an Italian language class this summer but could just as easily take a History class. I think this would help if he decides to go with Wstrdg's advise.
|
CarolynLawrence
Administrator
| Joined: | Sun Mar 5th, 2006 |
| Location: | USA |
| Posts: | 3197 |
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Tue May 9th, 2006 03:09 am |
|
Primetimemom, The squeeky wheel gets the grease so don't stop at the guidance office if you get the same "the administration makes the decision" line - go to the administration and plead your case. We were also told that my daughter couldn't go into honors English due to space requirements but low and behold when I found out about the "secret contract" option, and mentioned my disappointment at having to pay tuition for my kid to be shut out of classes she easily would have gotten into in public school, they somehow found an extra seat.
I can not imagine that they can not fit in one more student in your son's school too. If they say absolutely not, ask if he can be put on a waitlist if case another student drops out during the first month or two of school as is often likely. Then, order the textbooks that the class is using for your son, and have him ask the teacher teaching it when it starts if he can sit in on review sessions and receive the same handouts that the kids in the class receive. Even if he doesn't get in, he will be better prepared to take the test on his own that way.
Please let us know how it goes. I'll keep my fingers crossed for your son.Last edited on Tue May 9th, 2006 03:10 am by CarolynLawrence
|
Wstrdg
Member
| Joined: | Mon Mar 6th, 2006 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 397 |
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Tue May 9th, 2006 05:05 am |
|
Self-study for AP exams is not terribly unusual. For example, the Siemens Award almost requires that students will self-study for at least some of the AP's:
http://www.siemens-foundation.org/awards/
A student must obtain a score of five on at least three of the following exams in order to qualify. If multiple students have the same number of AP scores of five, composite exam scores are used as the tiebreaker.
Eligible AP subjects include the following:
- Biology
- Calculus BC
- Chemistry
- Computer AB
- Environmental Science
- Physics C: Mechanics
- Physics C: Electricity and Magnetism
- Statistics
Winners are selected by the College Board. There is no application for the student award.
Schools may be a little reluctant to allow your son to test with them, but once you explain that he has studied independently, and that you were referred to them by the College Board, they will probably acquiesce. Be appreciative and take cookies when you sign up, with a nice thank you note.
You can Google for the various history courses and find tons of great teacher and class written sites, with practice MCQ's and essays. If your son likes history, I wouldn't worry about being in the "official" class.
And if he pulls this one off, they'll think twice about denying admission in the future.
And if the course is APUSH (US History) or WHAP (World Histoy), be sure that he takes the May or June SAT II subject exam. It will be a snap after his preparation. It's only an hour long, all MCQ, and not terribly difficult for a student who has prepared for an AP exam in the same subject. Unfortunately, AP Euro does not have a corresponding SAT II subject exam.
|
PrimetimeMom
Member
| Joined: | Mon Mar 6th, 2006 |
| Location: | Los Angeles |
| Posts: | 158 |
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Tue May 9th, 2006 07:07 am |
|
Thank you for the informative responses. I'm revved up to contact the administration now. My call today to his Advisor has not yet been returned  I have a feeling, just like last year, I will get a "pat" response (so sorry, xxx is a wonderful kid, I'm sure he would do well but the administration.... and it's really a shame. but we only have so many spots....blah blah blah).
What they don't know is that I have the collective knowledge of this board to guide me now
|
PrimetimeMom
Member
| Joined: | Mon Mar 6th, 2006 |
| Location: | Los Angeles |
| Posts: | 158 |
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Wed May 10th, 2006 06:06 am |
|
Today was spent playing phone tag with the Advisor. I sent this email and even if it's not appropriate or perfect, it's how I felt at the time and feel comfortable with sending it. My husband later said the "steam coming out of my ears" could have been left out but this is my first contact with the school and it felt appropriate
Hi Mr. XXXX, It appears we are playing a game of phone tag lol. My husband works out of our house so the phone goes over to voice mail when he's on it.
XXXX was very upset that he did not get into the AP History class. I normally do not get involved in these things but I would like to understand how this works and why he was denied a place in the class. He got at A in the class and that would be more than sufficient at most schools. He has worked very hard in all his classes, especially History .
XXXX is a first generation college student in our family and we take a lot of pride in his accomplishments. This was his only chance to get into an AP class. It doesn't seem fair with the tuition we are paying that other kids get to take several AP's and he only wants one. - do they pay more? Can we pay less? It's not right or fair in my opinion. I think he's more than capable of doing the AP work and up for the extra studying/testing it would entail. He said that there were only three slots available in the class ... at 28K for tuition I would think there would be space for whoever was qualified.. XXXX may have a B in his English class but he is a wonderful intuitive writer. He loves learning and writing. XXXXX has had to deal with many life situations that I will not disclose now, but that are very challenging to say the least. Also, his sister XXXXX is at an Emotional Growth Boarding School , which we visit once weekend every month and he is placed with a "XXX school parent" family while we are gone (kids 12 - 23 are not allowed to visit on campus) and has had to overcome the stigma of his sister's name in a few classes - sad to say. He has gone through a LOT more than many of his peers with a smile on his face a great attitude and a sense of humor - I would think this would account for something on his behalf. I
'm not happy with The XXXXX School today - I am more than disappointed, I'm upset and hurt on behalf of XXXXX(my son). XXXXis the school where he has been since a 3 yo an now he is not allowed to take a class that could help his future. As you know, the fact that he cannot take an AP and get an accelerated grade may affect his college choices.
I wanted to contact you first and find out what avenues we need to take to get XXXX into the AP class. I'm sorry but steam is coming out of my ears! Sincerely,XXXXXXXXXXXXX Mother of;XXXXXXXXXX
Last edited on Wed May 10th, 2006 06:31 am by PrimetimeMom
|
HImom
Member
| Joined: | Mon Mar 20th, 2006 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 261 |
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Wed May 10th, 2006 07:40 am |
|
I think you wrote a very carefully drafted e-mail and it hits the points you wanted to make. I hope you get a prompt & favorable response so your son can take this course!
Starion
|
Astrid (Moominmama)
Member
| Joined: | Sun Mar 5th, 2006 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 127 |
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Wed May 10th, 2006 04:00 pm |
|
| PrimeTimeMom, if you don't get a satisfactory answer from the advisor, be sure to copy your reply (with the complete exchange of emails) to the principal/headmaster/dean.
|
PrimetimeMom
Member
| Joined: | Mon Mar 6th, 2006 |
| Location: | Los Angeles |
| Posts: | 158 |
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Wed May 10th, 2006 04:15 pm |
|
He's in! I just got an email from the teacher that he's been placed in the class
I can't thank you all enough for your responses. I love this board!
|
Astrid (Moominmama)
Member
| Joined: | Sun Mar 5th, 2006 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 127 |
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Wed May 10th, 2006 04:21 pm |
|
| Congratulations! Good work.
|
jocelynDAD
Member
|
Posted: Wed May 10th, 2006 06:57 pm |
|
So glad that you have faced this challenge and met it head on. That your son's request was reasonable and that the primary purpose of the school should be your S academic growth could not be denied.
Frankly, I am amazed that you had this problem, especially considering the cost and the fact that your S has been a student for over 10 years.
I would suggest that you now take positive steps to become 'friendly' with the Guidence personnel and do not, in any manner, take credit for this action or even discuss it with other parents.
WHY, well in a short time, your S will need recommendations especially from the GC to colleges.
Since these are normally confidential (like Mackinaw - I am an Attorney and understand the desire to see the recommendation before being sent - however I don't because if the GC or teacher wanted to, they could show one and send another - I do plan for the worst case ) if the GC feels hurt or pushed, well you can imagine how the GC could get back at you/S,
Wait until your S is out of this school and into college before (if ever) you discuss this situation with other parents.
Good luck for the rest of this year and in AP History.
Last edited on Wed May 10th, 2006 06:58 pm by jocelynDAD
|
CarolynLawrence
Administrator
| Joined: | Sun Mar 5th, 2006 |
| Location: | USA |
| Posts: | 3197 |
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Thu May 11th, 2006 04:10 am |
|
PrimetimeMom wrote: He's in! I just got an email from the teacher that he's been placed in the class
I can't thank you all enough for your responses. I love this board!
That is wonderful news! Your email was perfect - right on target and hard to argue with but not obnoxious. CONGRATULATIONS!! I do agree with JocelynDad - don't make a big deal about this with other parents. But, make sure to send a nice thank you note (handwritten, not email) to the guidance counselor thanking them for helping you solve the problem.
By the way, your son might want to file away these two sites for future reference - they have some great links related to US History:
http://www.historyteacher.net/AHAP/AHAPCourseMainPage.htm
http://www.apstudent.com
Also be sure to get him a good APUSH study guide over the summer.
And, if he has ANY doubts about getting in this way, tell him to put them right out of his head: he will do just fine.
Last edited on Thu May 11th, 2006 04:15 am by CarolynLawrence
|
PrimetimeMom
Member
| Joined: | Mon Mar 6th, 2006 |
| Location: | Los Angeles |
| Posts: | 158 |
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Thu May 11th, 2006 08:31 pm |
|
Thanks Carolyn for the helpful links. I have no idea what APUSH is but I will quickly find out. My son actually does not know that I contacted his Advisor. I didn't get a chance to tell him and neither the teacher or the Advisor mentioned the email to him
|
mominva
Member
| Joined: | Sun Mar 5th, 2006 |
| Location: | DC Suburbs |
| Posts: | 332 |
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Thu May 11th, 2006 09:06 pm |
|
| APUSH= AP United States History
|
PrimetimeMom
Member
| Joined: | Mon Mar 6th, 2006 |
| Location: | Los Angeles |
| Posts: | 158 |
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Fri May 12th, 2006 12:26 am |
|
Thanks! LOL I realized it after I posted that.
|
westkymom
Member
| Joined: | Mon Mar 6th, 2006 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 304 |
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Fri May 12th, 2006 01:42 am |
|
It is amazing how different schools handle things differently. Last year, my son's school had 5 students in AP European History. Next year, they'll have 25. My son overheard the Principal and the AP History teacher putting their heads together on what to do about books!
--Rhonda
|
Current time is 03:34 am | Page: 1 2   |
|
