 |
| Author | Post |
|---|
limner
Member
| Joined: | Sun Jul 16th, 2006 |
| Location: | Tennessee USA |
| Posts: | 809 |
| Mana: |    |
|
Posted: Thu Aug 30th, 2007 05:41 pm |
|
I'm just about to do a google search on block scheduling, but I'd like to hear what folks on this list have to say. There's a burgeoning movement in our town to start school later by a group calling itself "Save our Tennessee Summers." We currently start about early to mid August, although it does seem to be creeping up (We started this year on Aug. 9, next year calendar says Aug. 6).
The school board apparently gives block scheduling as the primary reason (both middle schools and high schools) for starting this early. I don't mind the early start really, and parents in the AP-reading discussion mentioned another good reason for starting early: AP tests.
Anyone have any other positives? Negatives? As far as I can tell, this group is primarily opposed because they don't like their vacation schedules interfered with.  Last edited on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 05:42 pm by limner
|
pencilnpaper
Member
| Joined: | Wed Mar 8th, 2006 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 64 |
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Thu Aug 30th, 2007 06:09 pm |
|
There's a lot of old discussion on the "other board". I copied a post I made there, but you can find lots of other viewpoints as well.
I see no reason that block scheduling has anything to do with how early the school year starts. Is it because they are trying to reach a certain point by the Winter holidays? Is it due to AP schedules?
Plus, what type of block scheduling do you have? (4x4 where only 4 courses are taken per semester? A/B where classes are held on alternating days but for longer periods?)
We've experienced both schedules (traditional and 4x4). However, my daughter only had one year of the 4x4, before transferring to another school (for reasons other than the schedule). She liked it. She preferred the longer classes, fewer exams at one time, and the ability to be done with a class she did not like in only half the year. She prefers the Humanities and the Arts. The longer classes seemed great for these classes.
There were also disadvantages. I found math to be a particular problem in 4x4 schedules. Math is similar to a language in that many students do better if they are given small amounts of new concepts at a time, then take the ideas home and practice (homework). In a 4x4 schedule, much more information must be presented at once, with less time to absorb or practice the concepts. Many students often went for over a year with no math courses at all. (Algebra in the fall, Geometry in the Spring of the following year). Even though these are "different" subjects, many of the concepts are continued, and unfortunately forgotten with such a long breaks. I also believe math helps sharpen your mind for critical thinking in other subjects as well, and like any exercise should be done on a continual basis to be most effective.
The school solved the language "problem" by guaranteeing that all language courses would be continuous. This did have a benefit that a student who loved languages could double up, and take two separate languages during their high school years.
The school explained that the 4x4 schedule offered more opportunities, but that was not true. They corrected the AP problem by having AP classes last 3 of the 4 blocks, to roughly coincide with May AP exam dates. All their honor science courses were also 3 of 4 blocks because they did not feel they could cover the material in only 2. Once that was factored in, it limited additional class slots for the students taking more advanced courses.
I also believed that 90 min. classes were long for some subjects. The good teachers varied their teaching styles to include some lecture, some discussion, some work time, etc. Other teachers seemed to just provide "filler" (movies, homework time, etc.). It was great for art classes!
Many local private schools have adopted the A/B block schedule. This seems a good compromise in that courses are still taught all year long, but allow for extended labs, studios, discussions, etc. Missing several days due to illness is not as catastrophic. Math classes are also longer, but a student also has 2 days to absorb the material (or do homework).
|
limner
Member
| Joined: | Sun Jul 16th, 2006 |
| Location: | Tennessee USA |
| Posts: | 809 |
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Thu Aug 30th, 2007 06:15 pm |
|
| Thanks, pnp. My S's former (!) school has the 4X4 schedule. The early start is so that they can get their exms in before Christmas. They could do APs, but an early start is definitely advantageous for AP classes. Otherwise, they're really scrambling in the spring.
|
CarolynLawrence
Administrator
| Joined: | Sun Mar 5th, 2006 |
| Location: | USA |
| Posts: | 3216 |
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Thu Aug 30th, 2007 06:49 pm |
|
The main reason we decided to send our kids to private school was the 4X4 block scheduling at our local public. The way the block schedule is run at our local public, kids only take English and math for half of the year, and can go as long as a year without either subject. I felt strongly enough about the need for having these two subjects throughout the year that we looked for other options. Another side to the way our local 4X4 system works is that not everyone starts and ends the day at the same time. Depending on their schedules, some kids don't go in until 9:30 while others start at 7:30, and the same is true at the other end as well.
My kids' high school is on an A-B block schedule. They take six courses, three of which meet on A days, three on B days. A and B days alternate. The year is divided up into two semesters, and mid-terms for full year courses are in late January (as are finals for half year courses for fall semester). Our school starts a week later than the local public and gets out two weeks earlier. We only have ten days off at Christmas. There is a one-week break in the Spring for Easter, and very few days off other than that.
This system seems to work well. The teachers get the extended classroom time, kids get an extra night to complete homework, and everyone starts and ends the day at the same time so everyone can do extracurriculars.
|
Lupine
Member
| Joined: | Thu May 17th, 2007 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 135 |
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Thu Aug 30th, 2007 06:53 pm |
|
We have what's termed a "modified block" schedule -- 8 periods a day three days a week, and then four periods a day on one day and the other four periods on the other day. The blocks get dropped (and kids take the regular 8 period schedule) on weeks with two off days and the week leading up to semester exams.
Kids seem to like it -- I haven't yet heard a kid say they didn't like it. The big bonus is that on the two block days there is a shared 40 minute lunch break for the entire school. Lots of clubs meet during block lunch, which is great for kids who do a sport or drama or the like after school, and you can often grab a teacher if you have a few questions even if your regular off period doesn't match the teacher's. Labs are almost always on block days, and many teachers schedule exams and socratic seminar discussions on blocks as well.
The downsides include ending up with an hour and a half gap in your schedule on the relevant block day for any period you don't have a class assigned. My sociable child doesn't have trouble using this, either for an extended off-campus lunch with friends, or as a chance to hit the library and get some homework done, but I have heard from parents whose kids use it as a chance to escape school never to return that day. You also get dinged with two absences for each class you miss on a block day, and we have a punative attendance policy that begins penalties after 11 excused absences.
I'm not sure why (traditional) block scheduling would affect the date school starts quite so much in your district. You're just rearranging how the hours are allocated, not changing the overall In our area, credits are determined by "seat time" -- you need a certain number of hours of time in class in order to earn a Carnegie unit. In Colorado, it doesn't matter how the hours are broken up, just that the hours get met. (That's also why, at least in our state, you get just as much credit for PE class as you do for AP Calculus BC, despite a much different homework load.) I'm not a big fan of that system, but I understand that it is pretty widely used. So if you need 1080 contact hours of instruction (our requirement in Colorado), you could chop that up into two semesters, each with 77 or so days assuming 7 instructional hours per day. Excluding Thanksgiving week entirely, there are still 15 full weeks between September 1 and Dec. 22, for a theoretical total of 75 possible instructional days, so even beginning school the last week of August should allow the instructional days to be met before Christmas for first semester unless there are a lot of in-service or other vacation days. Perhaps some states (yours?) have a much higer contact hours requirement? Mathematically I'd think that block scheduling would actually allow a later start, at least here, because you'd have only four passing periods a day rather than seven in a regular eight period day. We're not allowed to count passing period time as instructional time, so that's a differential of 12 minutes a day or a savings of about 30 hours of instructional time in a full block schedule each year.
I guess that without further evidence I wouldn't rush to accept their notion that a block schedule would necessarily drive an earlier start to the school year.
Last edited on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 06:54 pm by Lupine
|
DesperateDad
Member
| Joined: | Tue Mar 14th, 2006 |
| Location: | California USA |
| Posts: | 832 |
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Thu Aug 30th, 2007 07:07 pm |
|
I, too, think a 4x4 block is not in a child's best educational interest. Subjects like math and foreign languages need frequent repitition, IMO. Otherwise, can be six+ months before a student takes the next class in sequence.
Our HS also has the modified version, and it works really well with 90 minute class periods. We have a standard time for lunch. One downside to the modified block is the increased possibility of cheating since tests are given over two days.
Interestingly, the first HS in our district to start with the block schedule does the 4x4. But, they quickly changed it to daily for most AP classes, and for "slower" classes. For example, passing Algebra is a grad requirement, so it is offered daily for those kids are aren't strong in math.
Block schedules should have ZERO to do with when a school starts - 180 academic days = 180 academic days. If a school wants to complete finals before the winter break, then it must start in August, but that is a separate issue from a block schedule.
|
Fireflyscout
Member
| Joined: | Sun Mar 5th, 2006 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 182 |
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Thu Aug 30th, 2007 07:25 pm |
|
| My daughter attended a 4x4 block HS. The pace suited her, but it's not for everyone. Absences are "magnified" due to the accelerated pace. Transferring in or out is difficult, given that a block student may not have taken any math then transfers midyear to a school on a tracitional schedule (and vice versa).
|
Kayleigh_9109
Member
|
Posted: Thu Aug 30th, 2007 07:52 pm |
|
My school in Tennessee was block.. I guess it was 4x4.. I loved it. I would give anything to have it again, it was less stressful. More manageable workloads, less of classes I don't like etc.
I understand where some people think it's not for the child's best educational interest but I feel I learned a lot more Freshman year than last year, despite the teachers and curriculum. I just felt I learned easier with Block.
It may not work for kids with an accelerated course list but for me I think it did. Because I could double up on my math classes every year almost, with Foreign Language there was a gap but it done properly. You took level 1 at the end up your first year, level 2 end of second year, then 3 and 4 back to back. So you really only have a gap between one and two. English on the other hand I would've ended up with a gap, but I don't think English as is troublesome as math or language.
So I've experienced Traditional Scheduling, and 4x4 block. I haven't dealth with A/B Block though. I fully support Block scheduling. I think it is easier for a child to accelerate, and I think it's even easier to get help if you need it. Because lets say in a normal class you get 10 minutes for homework, so in a 2x as long class, you'd probably get atleast 15 unless its a more lecture based class. Plus we had 10 minute breaks in between each class. So thats almost 25 minutes that if you are completely lost you and the teacher can try to sort it out right then and there.
It really does depend on the students, teachers, and school if it will work. But I think at my school it worked and I loved it.
|
Lupine
Member
| Joined: | Thu May 17th, 2007 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 135 |
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Thu Aug 30th, 2007 07:59 pm |
|
Interesting on how they did foreign languages. I could see that working.
Math's the one I would have struggled with -- I don't think that I'd have done too well taking one year of math and finishing by Christmas freshman year, and taking the next course either seven or twelve months later depending on whether I got a fall or a spring block.
|
limner
Member
| Joined: | Sun Jul 16th, 2006 |
| Location: | Tennessee USA |
| Posts: | 809 |
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Thu Aug 30th, 2007 08:10 pm |
|
Thanks for all the input! My H and I had the same worries--math and foreigh language--when S started HS. My H was especially concerned about the math. S did fine, but I can see the downside of those gaps. However, S, like Kayleigh, liked the block schedule.
Our school system isn't perfect, but they've obviously put some thought into these decsions. Our HS kids start school at 8:30; the MS and Elem. kids start at 7:45 a.m. The HS late start is something other schools in the U.S. are now trying because of research into how teens' body clocks work, well, later than the rest of us.
|
Shennie
Member
|
Posted: Fri Aug 31st, 2007 06:42 pm |
|
| I work in a district that has 4x4 at the high school. In our state (Wisconsin) schools, by law, cannot start until after Sept. 1. (The tourism lobby has a lot of clout here.) Anyway, we still do a 4x4 in spite of that. It does create a problem for AP classes. There has been some thought to offering some AP classes during 2nd and 3rd quarter so they are done before the testing, but that causes other problems. I think that Calc. if offered all year.
|
mom61
Member
| Joined: | Fri Jun 23rd, 2006 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 247 |
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Fri Aug 31st, 2007 11:24 pm |
|
My two oldest attended schools with a 4X4 block. We started after labor day. They are now starting a week earlier. It is a problem for spring ap classes.
It has it pros and cons. I think it depends on the teacher and the kid. For one of my kids it worked great. For the other it had some benefits but some drawbacks. I think at our high school in the regular college prep track they don't get a whole year in one semester. The Gate and Ap track seem to have worked out a stronger program with the block. W
When my 3rd is ready for high school I will seriously look at the other high schools in the area with a traditional calendar.
|
Consolation
Member
| Joined: | Mon Apr 9th, 2007 |
| Location: | USA |
| Posts: | 483 |
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Sun Sep 2nd, 2007 01:18 am |
|
I don't know what you would call our high school's schedule, but they have a rotating 4-day (ABCD) schedule. All classes meet all year, except for classes that are specifically designated as semester courses. The maximum number of courses with regular class meetings you can take per semester is 7.25 (lab sciences are 1.25, the rest are 1)It is possible to take another course if it is an independent study, since meeting times can be arranged out of the regular class schedule.
|
Lupine
Member
| Joined: | Thu May 17th, 2007 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 135 |
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Sun Sep 2nd, 2007 01:50 am |
|
Consolation wrote: I don't know what you would call our high school's schedule, but they have a rotating 4-day (ABCD) schedule. All classes meet all year, except for classes that are specifically designated as semester courses. The maximum number of courses with regular class meetings you can take per semester is 7.25 (lab sciences are 1.25, the rest are 1)It is possible to take another course if it is an independent study, since meeting times can be arranged out of the regular class schedule.
Sounds like the evolution of my California HS schedule from many moons ago: 26 15 minute mods per day on a 6 day cycle, with classes taking 3,4, or 6 mods (PE and science labs were six mods, I remember) -- you could have Chemistry day 1 and 3 lectures for three mods, chem lab on day 2 & 4 for six mods each, and a three mod chemistry small group on day 6. (Day 1, cycle 1 could be a Monday, in which case day 6 cycle 1 was the subsequent Monday, and the following Tuesday was day 1 cycle 2.
Coming out of this, I think we were some of the few college freshmen who thought putting together a college schedule was a breeze. I don't think the high school kept this schedule very long, and I can't imagine how they ever did the master schedule for this in those largely pre-computer days. (Students put together their own schedules based on the master schedule. ) Only in California.....
Last edited on Sun Sep 2nd, 2007 01:50 am by Lupine
|
hummingbird
Member
|
Posted: Sun Sep 2nd, 2007 02:02 am |
|
My kids' school has the A/B version of block scheduling. Each day they have 4 classes. A days have one set of 4 classes. B days have a different set of 4 classes. But a few days a week they also have Ohana (anyone who has seen the Disney movie "Lilo & Stitch" might recall that "Ohana" is Hawaiian for "family."). Ohana is like their homeroom. On Ohana days, which are either called A+ or B+ days, their classes are slightly shorter in order to fit Ohana in there.
They love the A/B schedule, which their school adopted just last year. They like it because it gives them two days to get their homework done (since the next day is a different set of classes). It also means that each class is longer than they would be otherwise, which gives them more in-depth time to work on things in the classroom.
They have two semesters each year. Most classes are two semesters long, but some classes are only one semester long. In that case, the next semester it will be replaced with another class.Last edited on Sun Sep 2nd, 2007 02:04 am by hummingbird
|
Deja
Member
| Joined: | Thu Apr 13th, 2006 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 158 |
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Sun Sep 2nd, 2007 09:24 pm |
|
Hummingbird, we have the same schedule (without the "Ohana").
I have a question, though -- does your high school have a lunch time? If kids want a lunch period, they have to give up a full block (90-something minutes). Part of that is lunch, and then part becomes study hall. To have a lunch period each day, they would have to give up two blocks.
My son (jr) insists on taking 8 classes each year. He says to have a study hall would be a "waste of time." I disagree, but he's adamant about it. So he has no down time during the school day. It's go-go-go. He does bring a lunch to eat in class.
Our school days are 6.5 hours, which I've come to realize is on the short side when compared to other systems nationwide. It's all about get 'em in and get 'em out.
|
Kayleigh_9109
Member
|
Posted: Sun Sep 2nd, 2007 09:28 pm |
|
I didn't have the A/B schedule but what we did for lunch is during our 3rd block it was 30 minutes longer and and there were 4 lunch periods. You went the 1st 30, 2nd 30, 3rd 30, or 4th 30 minutes of the 3rd block for lunch.. Then again we weren't allowed to eat in any classes.. Come to think of it we aren't allowed to eat in any of my classes now, or have anything to drink. Some let us have water but most don't.
I'd have to agree with your son Deja, i think that study halls are a waste of time too.. But that's just me...
|
hummingbird
Member
|
Posted: Sun Sep 2nd, 2007 09:59 pm |
|
| Deja -- Yes, they do have a lunch period, but no study hall. I think it's crazy to make the students miss a class in order to have lunch. Wonder why can't they just add 30 minutes to the day to accommodate lunches?? BTW, the school day at my kids' school is also 6.5 hours long. Last edited on Sun Sep 2nd, 2007 09:59 pm by hummingbird
|
Descartes
Super Moderator
|
Posted: Mon Sep 3rd, 2007 01:09 am |
|
Lupine wrote: Sounds like the evolution of my California HS schedule from many moons ago: 26 15 minute mods per day on a 6 day cycle, with classes taking 3,4, or 6 mods (PE and science labs were six mods, I remember) -- you could have Chemistry day 1 and 3 lectures for three mods, chem lab on day 2 & 4 for six mods each, and a three mod chemistry small group on day 6. (Day 1, cycle 1 could be a Monday, in which case day 6 cycle 1 was the subsequent Monday, and the following Tuesday was day 1 cycle 2.
....
Only in California.....
Actually my Wisconsin HS also had a flex mod schedule - 20 mods of 18 minutes length with 4 minute transition times on a six day rotation - A through F days (this circa 1975). Classes were as you described - different lengths for different purposes on different days.
I didn't know it then, but I loved this system because it gave me so much unstructured time during the day in which to do homework and hang out. My S's high school allows its students exactly 0 free time - they are in class every minute of the day except for transition times and a 20 minute lunch period. I think this "accountability" is the chief reason why the administration liked this scheduling system.
|
Kayleigh_9109
Member
|
Posted: Mon Sep 3rd, 2007 01:47 am |
|
| I think I would love that ^^^ type of school. Whenever I see movies or TV where they have time to hang out at school I always thought it was just for TV. Then I hear about types like that and I wish we had something like that. We get no free time. We get 5 minutes between classes and 20 minutes (30 if you include the 5 before and 5 after) and that's it. During lunch we have to stay in the cafeteria or in one hallway and that's it. I would think that system would be so much more beneficial than say a Study Hall. If it was broken up I would think something productive would be done, when I had a full period for a Study Hall I'd try to do homework but couldn't get into it, and most people simply slept.
|
Current time is 11:26 am | Page: 1 2   |
|
|
|
|
