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Consolation
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Posted: Wed Jun 6th, 2007 03:54 pm |
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Does your school have them? If so, how many? Do you think they matter for admissions?
Last year I seem to recall our school giving out about 13 awards. This year, there were 10, plus the Phi Beta Kappa award (Colby, Middlebury, Williams, Yale, Harvard, St Michael's [1M/1F]. RPI, Dartmouth, Smith[F]).
One thing that I notice is that almost all of them are given to girls, even in my son's class, which is replete with smart boys who get good grades. Only 3 boys got one this year. Last year there were only 2.
Another thing is that the specifications for the awards are only loosely adhered to at best. For example, the award my son got specified social service as a criteria. Although he does have some social service activity on his resume, it is not his strongest point. The Phi Beta Kappa award was supposed to reward someone who had sought out intellectual opportunities beyond the norm. It went to the kid with a difficult program and the best grades, who has taken no steps to expand beyond the high school curriculum. The kid who best fit that description in his class was actually mine, who has taken the same program in history, math, science, English, and history, but who has taken two languages and skipped the first year of one after self study during the summer, has gone to CTY and studied philosophy, and has taken independent study in AP French Lit, something the school doesn't offer. But his GPA is a few points lower. (I don't mind that he didn't get that award, because it always goes to the kid with serious classes and the best grades, and the kid deserved recognition, but he certainly isn't intellectually adventurous...)
My understanding of the way they do it here is that all of the teachers are asked to list juniors whom they think should be considered for a book award. Then the awards are divided up by someone or a committee. So if my kid were the third boy on the list, for example, and the other two had better grades (which they did), he had to get the St Michael's award despite the fact that he didn't fully meet the criteria for it, because if they gave him instead of a girl with lesser academic credentials, say, the Williams or Dartmouth award, they would have to find another boy for St. Michael's and bump one of the girls off the list entirely.
Another reason why national and standardized tests should be part of the picture. They aren't a popularity contest, and the kid is ultimately the only one who can perform on them.
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jocelynDAD
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Posted: Wed Jun 6th, 2007 04:11 pm |
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No. From your description these awards seem to be a local custom. What an Adcom might think of them is open ended.
Obviously, any award is a positive, but the possibility of it translating into something of primary consideration at any college would be strictly up to the college.
Comment: When you stated that the student took no steps beyond the high school curriculum and later said that he certainly isn't intellectually adventurous 
well I just got out the duct tape normally reserved for college discussions with my D3. They are in High School - mastering the HS curriculum is terrific - how could that be a negative or viewed negatively! 
Last edited on Wed Jun 6th, 2007 04:12 pm by jocelynDAD
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Wendy (wjb)
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Posted: Wed Jun 6th, 2007 04:42 pm |
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Yes, as Jocelyndad says, every award a student receives is a good thing, but book awards, because of their highly "local" nature, probably don't mean a great deal to admissions committees at highly selective schools. Their biggest benefit may be to the high school college counseling office rather than to the individual awardees: The college counseling staff may be able to develop relationships with the local alumni who contribute the books that awardees receive and who interview applicants.
And yes, as a Class of 2008 parent with a son entering the college admissions fray, I'm trying hard to remember, and to help my kid remember, that there will be some disappointments along the way, for sure. Some decisions may seem puzzling or unfair, but that's life. Too much comparison leads the way to ulcers!
Last edited on Wed Jun 6th, 2007 04:50 pm by Wendy (wjb)
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Consolation
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Posted: Wed Jun 6th, 2007 05:50 pm |
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jocelynDAD wrote: No. From your description these awards seem to be a local custom. What an Adcom might think of them is open ended.
Obviously, any award is a positive, but the possibility of it translating into something of primary consideration at any college would be strictly up to the college.
Comment: When you stated that the student took no steps beyond the high school curriculum and later said that he certainly isn't intellectually adventurous
well I just got out the duct tape normally reserved for college discussions with my D3. They are in High School - mastering the HS curriculum is terrific - how could that be a negative or viewed negatively!
Firstly, book awards are not a "local custom": my high school in CT gave them, and so does every school around here that I know of. They are sponsored by the regional alumnae association and/or the college itself, and have been around for decades. Colleges have traditionally sponsored such awards as a marketing tool to raise awareness of their existence among high-achieving students.
Secondly, I certainly agree that mastering a rigorous high school curriculum is terrific--but the Phi Beta Kappa people CHOSE to specify that their award is supposed to go to someone who demonstrated intellectual curiosity, or whatever terminology they use, by pursuing such things beyond the "norm." And this particular kid, although very bright, very hardworking, and an all-around great guy, just hasn't done that, while others have. It's a fact. Nevertheless, I am very happy for him that he got the award in question.
I suppose on thing that getting a book award indicates to colleges is that the teachers regard the kid as one of the outstanding students in their class. Which can't hurt--especially, one might think, in a situation where several kids from the high school are applying to the same place. Other than that, I'm sure it means more to the kids and parents than it does to an admissions committee.
RPI guarantees a $60K scholarship to any winner of their book award who applies and is accepted--a nice guarantee of merit aid!
Last edited on Wed Jun 6th, 2007 05:57 pm by Consolation
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jocelynDAD
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Posted: Wed Jun 6th, 2007 06:41 pm |
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Consolation wrote:
Firstly, book awards are not a "local custom": my high school in CT gave them, and so does every school around here that I know of. They are sponsored by the regional alumnae association and/or the college itself, and have been around for decades. Colleges have traditionally sponsored such awards as a marketing tool to raise awareness of their existence among high-achieving students.
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That is nice and all, but Connecticut is not all the states and when my children were in school in Hamden, CT - I do not recall that 'Book Awards' were given in our High School. The likelihood that colleges beyond the local area or other than the specific college involved would be particiluarly aware are slim IMO.
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Consolation wrote:
Secondly, I certainly agree that mastering a rigorous high school curriculum is terrific--but the Phi Beta Kappa people CHOSE to specify that their award is supposed to go to someone who demonstrated intellectual curiosity, or whatever terminology they use, by pursuing such things beyond the "norm." And this particular kid, although very bright, very hardworking, and an all-around great guy, just hasn't done that, while others have. It's a fact. Nevertheless, I am very happy for him that he got the award in question.
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I can only intrepret that you seem to feel that achieving the highest grade while fulfilling the HS curriculum is NOT beyond the norm!!!!!!!!
What then is the "norm'?
This is High School. If doing everything asked by the HS and doing it excellently and better than her/his peers is not rewardable then the HS should not have awards.
I do not doubt that achievements outside of the standard HS curriculum are significant and noteworthy. Howsoever, if the HS selection process valued those activities beyond the curriculum that the HS established what pray tell is the value of that curriculum?
Achieving the best grades on the topics established by the HS is intellectually noteworthy and deserving of whatever award/reward that the HS has established.
Frankly, if they ignored the student to give the award to someone whose achievements within the curriculum were less it would be a gross error and would devalue the entire curriculum and the four years of effort and achievement that the student and all other students were measured by and against.
Not all students have the advantages of summer programs or special lessons in music, art or other pursues. It is wonderful that some students are able to have these opportunities.
The HS faculty IMO properly considered what all the students had in common, namely the curriculum of the HS. Had they opened the selection to activities outside the control of the HS and not necessarily available to all students it would have been unjust, unfair and would have diminished the value of all the awards.
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Consolation
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Posted: Wed Jun 6th, 2007 07:22 pm |
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I no longer live in CT, and am quite aware that it does not comprose the entire world. I do know that local alumnae associations are the ones who usually sponsor book awards, so perhaps Hamden didn't have a concentration of alums from schools with such programs. Or perhaps the administration didn't want to have them. Or perhaps you were simply unaware of their existence at that time for some reason.
Secondly, no, I do think that one demonstrates an *unusual* level of intellectual curiosity simply by trying to get the best possible grades on the material that is put in front of one. That it is a major accomplishment in itself, and requires discipline and commitment and brains, is without doubt. But even remaining strictly within the walls of the high school, there are such things as the opportunity to take independent studies.
Clearly we have different ideas of what constitutes intellectual curiosity. I'm happy to agree to disagee.
(By the way, you do not need to feel sorry for the kid in question on the grounds of lack of opportunity. He has Ivy edicated parents and has every opportunity to pursue outside or independent studies, but chooses not to. Just as he has private instrumental lessons and plays well, but chooses not to participate in the regional youth symphony, unlike many of his peers. He has other priorities.)
Last edited on Wed Jun 6th, 2007 07:29 pm by Consolation
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CarolynLawrence
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Posted: Thu Jun 7th, 2007 04:28 am |
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Here's what admissions people have told me about book awards (and these are admissions people from very competitive schools, including some of the schools whose names are on the book awards you mentioned): they're fine to list in the honors section of the application, but they don't convey any special "in" with admissions. Admissions people recognize that the standards for who gets chosen to receive these awards (usually) varies from school to school, and that they are subject to all of the political mumbo-jumbo you describe, so as with NHS, admissions people tend to think of them exactly the way JD suggested: as a local award, and not a huge deal in terms of admissions points. Even the ones that have money attached like RPI and the Bausch & Lomb science award from U of Rochester are not an "in" -- you still have to pass the admissions bar like everyone else.
So, they are, indeed, nice local honors to tag on to the application, but the lack of one won't keep any kid from getting into a specific college, nor will receiving one guarantee admission (or even give a huge boost). As for the selection criteria, as Wendy so aptly noted, "Some decisions may seem puzzling or unfair, but that's life. Too much comparison leads the way to ulcers!"
Last edited on Thu Jun 7th, 2007 04:59 am by CarolynLawrence
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scoop
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Posted: Thu Jun 7th, 2007 10:50 am |
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| I found this conversation fascinating as my daughter received one of five art department book awards two nights ago. It was a lovely honor as she is a sophmore and I noticed most of the awards went to juniors. I will note that several of the most academically honored students were males. D1 is my oldest and I had no idea what a book award was. While it will be a nice thing to put on her application, the recognition by her teachers was the most important part. She has had a difficult time reading what the teachers thought of her, so this was a lovely validation. It was a happy week as she found out yesterday that her mural design was one of two chosen to be painted on a high school wall. Our school gave out about 25 awards. From what I got from the descriptions, most of the awards were for school related academics, in school opportunities and community service. Last edited on Thu Jun 7th, 2007 11:28 am by scoop
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atlantamom
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Posted: Thu Jun 7th, 2007 01:15 pm |
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I agree with everyone who has said that these awards are "local" in nature. I think it is interesting that Carolyn has confirmation of that from admissions folks.
I received one of six book awards at my high school back in the early 70's in Kentucky. In my high school the recipients of these awards were all top students who excelled in specific areas. All the students who received these awards always were admitted to the top schools to which they applied. The awards actually did have meaning. The recipients really did excel in terms of the criteria of each award. Of course, I am sure there were politics involved. There probably were other kids who could just as easily have deserved each of the awards, but weren't as popular with the teachers.
My recollection is that we thought of these awards as a reflection of how we were viewed by the teachers. What this meant in practical terms is that our recommendations (by counselors and our selected teachers) reflected this.
THAT IS ALL IS IT MEANT. No one had the opinion that receiving the Harvard Book Award meant any special "in" at Harvard.
At my kids' high school, the book awards change from year to year. IMO, from watching these awards given each year, the counselors simply pick the top ranked kids. If there are five awards, they go to the top 5 students (academic average). If there are seven awards...to the top 7. Thats the way it is there and the recipients rarely have the "other" characteristics mentioned as the criteria for the award. For example, this year the recipient of the Swarthmore Award was supposed to be receiving this award for significant contribution to the world community. I know as a fact that this kid has never done anything remotely like that. Happens to be ranked in the top few. That's all.
So....it seems to me, based on my experience, to vary from school to school.
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hummingbird
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Posted: Thu Jun 7th, 2007 03:22 pm |
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| Our kids' public magnet high school does not give out book awards, that I know of. I went to a tiny Catholic HS and we did not receive these types of awards back then, either. I have not heard of them until now, with your post.
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Consolation
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Posted: Thu Jun 7th, 2007 03:56 pm |
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atlantamom wrote: I agree with everyone who has said that these awards are "local" in nature. I think it is interesting that Carolyn has confirmation of that from admissions folks.
I received one of six book awards at my high school back in the early 70's in Kentucky. In my high school the recipients of these awards were all top students who excelled in specific areas. All the students who received these awards always were admitted to the top schools to which they applied. The awards actually did have meaning. The recipients really did excel in terms of the criteria of each award. Of course, I am sure there were politics involved. There probably were other kids who could just as easily have deserved each of the awards, but weren't as popular with the teachers.
My recollection is that we thought of these awards as a reflection of how we were viewed by the teachers. What this meant in practical terms is that our recommendations (by counselors and our selected teachers) reflected this.
THAT IS ALL IS IT MEANT. No one had the opinion that receiving the Harvard Book Award meant any special "in" at Harvard.
That is exactly my understanding of them. I've never known anyone to think that because you got the Yale book award you somehow had an "in" at Yale.
The only distinction I would draw on the "local" issue is this: the distribution of the awards is "local," in the sense that you are selected by your school, not by some statewide or national competition, but they are not, as I at least understood jocelyndad to be suggesting, a custom restricted to MY locality.
What I find interesting is that they seem to be a long term thing in some schools all over the country, and are a big deal at those schools in that they indicate that the teachers regard you as outstanding, while at other schools people haven't even heard of them.
I also realize that this thread should really have been in "Year by Year Concerns." Oh well...
Last edited on Thu Jun 7th, 2007 03:59 pm by Consolation
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atlantamom
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Posted: Thu Jun 7th, 2007 04:11 pm |
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Consolation,
I think you are exactly right. They are not local, in the sense of restricted to your locality (they are given here in Atlanta and in Ky that I know of personally), and they certainly have been a long-standing tradition in some schools (like mine in Kentucky....goes back to late 60's at least).
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mathmom
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Posted: Thu Jun 7th, 2007 09:05 pm |
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I have no idea how the book awards are determined, though they usually have a blurb about the qualities that are being rewarded. I don't know enough about the other kid's grades or accomplishments to know if they are fairly distributed. I did notice that most of the awards seemed to have wording that meant they went to the humanities, history types. and it did seem to be mostly girls last year. The notable exception is the RPI medal (not a book award) which is a whopping $60,000 merit scholarship (over four years). Unfortunately since it generally goes to the best science/math kid, it usually goes to someone who ends up somewhere else even better known.
We have the awards ceremony tomorrow I'll be interested to see if the book awards are mostly girls this year too.
Last edited on Thu Jun 7th, 2007 09:06 pm by mathmom
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outwest
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Posted: Tue Jun 12th, 2007 02:40 am |
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Our school has the awards ceremony tomorrow night. I am looking forward to it. My DD says it is always the same kids getting the big awards (ie: The book awards this year). Our HS only has a few book awards and a Kiwanis one and a few others that are considered 'big'. I just think it's an honor for her to be invited. I am getting off early from work tomorrow. The awards are always a surprise to all the kids.
I wonder what she's getting??
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ABlestMom
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Posted: Tue Jun 12th, 2007 02:31 pm |
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| My D's private school in Connecticut gives out about 10 book awards every year. Each award has different qualities associated with them that should be reflected in the awarded student. I think they ultimately are the student that would be the high school's top pick to excel at that particular college or university.
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Alumother
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Posted: Tue Jun 12th, 2007 02:58 pm |
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My son's private Catholic high school also gives books awards - but maybe only 3? For a junior class of 115? And like many of you, my son also won one this year . I was really clear that his "Brown" book award meant nothing as far as Brown went. However, at his school they give honors certificates to three kids in every class every semester. Oik. So this book award is just kind of like the mother of all honors awards. He won for his writing. So it was like getting the honors award as a junior in English both both semesters this year - on steroids.
For him it was just wonderful, as his sister would win the maximum honors certificates every semester - each kid can only win three. And those certificates tend to go to the hand-raisers - either the kids who sustain high achievement, the kids who overcome obstacles, or just the kids who need encouragement. My D was a hand-raiser, my S is not. So the book award was great and I told him I was really proud of him.
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mathmom
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Posted: Wed Jun 13th, 2007 05:08 pm |
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I forgot to get back to this thread!
I think the book awards are common wherever there's a fairly active alumni club. From what I can make out the clubs write the description of what they want to award and then the schools look for the candidates. 90% of the descriptions were humanities oriented, i.e. they mentioned writing, history or English. Some mentioned citizenship. Eight went to girls, four to boys.
The Renssalaer Medal went to a great kid.
And oh my goodness, do we have a lot of awards! They have two ceremonies. One on Friday morning (two hours) which includes all the junior book awards, and one on Monday evening (three hours) which has more money and fewer books and included the RPI medal.
Last edited on Wed Jun 13th, 2007 05:10 pm by mathmom
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Consolation
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Posted: Wed Jun 13th, 2007 08:47 pm |
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outwest wrote: Our school has the awards ceremony tomorrow night. I am looking forward to it. My DD says it is always the same kids getting the big awards (ie: The book awards this year). Our HS only has a few book awards and a Kiwanis one and a few others that are considered 'big'. I just think it's an honor for her to be invited. I am getting off early from work tomorrow. The awards are always a surprise to all the kids.
I wonder what she's getting??
One of the things I realized this year, as I attended my third "Evening of Excellence," is that there are to some extent two worlds at the high school: the kids who get something at the ceremony every year, who always attend it (and their families), and those who never get anything and never go. The latter are the majority. The kids who are in the running are often intensely aware of who got what, while there are probably other families who don't even know that book awards and so forth are given. It tends to put angst about which book award you got into perspective!
The book awards are a surprise here, too. The NHS members from whom the awardees are usually drawn are all sitting in 2 rows behind the podium. It's fun to watch the kids try to figure out who is being described as the presenter reads a lengthy description of the awardee's accomplishments. As they figure out who it is, they turn and look at the awardee, with big smiles, while the awardee tries to remain poker-faced and look modest all at the same time.
Last edited on Wed Jun 13th, 2007 08:49 pm by Consolation
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