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Kareni
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Posted: Thu May 29th, 2008 03:38 am |
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I'm looking for some suggestions on how to whittle down a list of about thirty interesting colleges into a more approachable list of ten or fewer.
My daughter wrote to approximately 30 colleges that have the major in which she is interested (Classics or Latin), and she is now surrounded by mounds of viewbooks, brochures, catalogs, etc. Her test scores are such that she falls in the middle 50% range (with some, in the upper quartile) of all of these. She is fully aware of the fact that she could be happy at many of these colleges, but how does she go about decreasing the list of possibilities?
Ideally, she would visit them all; however, since only three of the colleges in our state offer a major in the Classics, the vast majority of these colleges are at a distance. We'll visit a couple campuses this summer while on a family trip, and she'll visit two more-local possibilities in the fall when classes are in session. Our financial situation does not permit a multi-college visit trip.
Any and all suggestions will be gratefully received!
Regards,
Kareni
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HighlandMom
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Posted: Thu May 29th, 2008 03:56 am |
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Hi Kareni 
Are there colleges near where you live that you could do "practice" visits? tomorrow I'm taking my soph dd to Rice because we live very close to it. It's not on her radar screen (she wants to go somewhere in the mountains but it will be very easy to get our feet wet this way. The hope is when we get to the ones on her list, we'll be better equipped to analyze effectively.
Also (and I can't believe I'm recommending this) you might see whether College Confidential has a section for any of the schools on her list. You might be able to dialog with students at those schools if they're CC members.
Also be on the lookout for schools coming to you in the way of college fairs, etc. About a month ago I took my dd to a seminar sponsored by Harvard, Duke, Georgetown, UPenn, and Stanford. After the slideshows and Q&A you could go to a breakout session with any of the schools. We opted out of that since once again none of the schools is on her radar screen at the moment.
Could she narrow down the list by location? Or other requirements? Sports? Dorm configuration? Religious or social organizations? City or rural? Large state univ or LAC?
One thing I think is helpful is to remember we might find THE best school for our children - but any of the ones they ultimately apply to will (hopefully) be a good fit because of all the research we've done ahead of time.
Just some ideas off the top of my head. I'm beginning to think this part of the process is as much a challenge as trying to teach them to read Last edited on Thu May 29th, 2008 04:02 am by HighlandMom
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Chedva
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Posted: Thu May 29th, 2008 11:56 am |
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What's her learning style? Does she do better in small discussion groups or does she hate to talk? Would she be lost in large lectures, or does she love taking notes? That could help her narrow down some schools. (My d, for example, loves discussions and hates lectures; she's at a small university. Her friend, though, is a deer in the headlights in small discussions; she learns better with lectures; she's at a large university.)
Does she want a rural or urban school? Bucolic campus or no campus? Guaranteed housing for 4 years or availability of off-campus apartments? Large Greek life where a lot of the social life revolves around frats or no Greek life? Big time sports or couldn't care less?
As far as her major is concerned, what's the size of the department? How many professors? If one leaves on sabbatical, will there still be enough classes for her to take? How many classes are there and what are the choices of classes? How often are required classes given? I know one kid who had problems with a required class because it was given only once every two years, and she didn't realize that until her junior year - it wasn't available her senior year.
Does she want a "core" curriculum, with lots of required courses regardless of major (like Columbia or Chicago)? Would she prefer the flexibility of no core (like Vassar or Brown)? Or somewhere in the middle, with "distribution requirements"?
What are her favorite ECs? Which schools have them? What's something she's always wanted to try? Which school might give her that opportunity?
These are some things that might help her narrow down her choices.
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Mrs. Aardvark
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Posted: Thu May 29th, 2008 01:00 pm |
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Is the "feel" of the campus important to her?
Trying searching on YouTube for clips of the campus.
Reading between the lines of school descriptions can tell you a lot about a school. Is it a "work hard, play hard" kind of school? Do they pride themselves on their football team? What kind of pictures are on display when you go to the web site?
What about the questions on the application? Do they encourage applicants to send along additional materials (dance DVD, music CD, athletic clippings, whatever) or do they not accept such materials at all? What kind of questions do they ask on their supplement (is it an intellectual essay type question, how will you add to our diversity type question, why do you want to live in our fab city question)?
I think these are all signs of the kind of students they are looking for, as well as how they assess applicants. Such signs should help your daughter sense if these are her kind of people.
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warblers
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Posted: Thu May 29th, 2008 02:53 pm |
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As far as her major is concerned, what's the size of the department? How many professors? If one leaves on sabbatical, will there still be enough classes for her to take? How many classes are there and what are the choices of classes? How often are required classes given?
If she is at all interested in graduate school, I'd also carefully examine research opportunities and funding. Many colleges proudly announce their emphasis on undergraduate research while providing little support in actuality. My own university, for example, offers virtually no research money to undergraduates outside the sciences. This can be problematic for summer research/programs; many archaeological field schools run around $4-6k, for example.
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Wstrdg
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Posted: Thu May 29th, 2008 03:12 pm |
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I think college visits are important, but I was surprised at how different our visits felt when my S was just a prospective applicant versus when he was an admitted student. Admitted student day is the absolute best time to visit, IMO. Everything looked about the same when S was a prospect. When he was "admitted," tho, it was easy to spot the differences.
Not sure that will help you much, unless you really want your D to apply to 30 colleges! 
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outwest
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Posted: Thu May 29th, 2008 05:18 pm |
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I agree, Westerndog. Visiting before decisions was important, but after acceptances your mindset is different. They could really go to that school so the differences start to show.
This is a bit long, sorry.
My D had an initial list of about 20 - 30 colleges. She whittled some away by size and location first. She decided she didn't want to go to school in the South, so Tulane and Emory came off. She decided she didn't want a giant school so USC came off. She decided against urban, so all of those came off.
Read those college books to get an idea about the school, but keep in mind that those books are not a substitute for visiting! She will need to go and visit after decisions come in, so if finances are tight save your money for then.
One college came off the list after doing one of those on line chats with students. One came off after she looked at the course catalog. One came off when she went on the facebook site for that school. One came off when she looked at the essay questions . When teacher recommendations were due she had a list of ten schools. Three of those were dropped in the Fall. One of those became stronger because of a marketing pamphlet they sent that she really liked.
We did make an attempt to get out there and see as many as possible. We did a PNW swing since it wasn't too expensive and we could hit 5 colleges by driving for four days. Only one of those schools was left after visiting. That visit scenario didn't cost an arm and a leg because it was a short flight, a cheap rental car and moderate hotels. We had never been to the PNW before and we treated it like a minivacation, so it was really fun!
She was told that some of the smaller colleges really want you to show interest. We visited two far away schools. One came off the list before the plane hit the ground back home. She was waitlisted at the other one. All I could think of for a while was the hundreds of dollars and the time we took to go and visit those two. I would say that was a total waste except, again, it was FUN! But, it really wasn't necessary, so don't feel you have to do that now. If I had to do it over again, we wouldn't have visited those two and saved the money for April visits.
Of the final list, she applied to just seven in the end. Of those seven she had visited only three of them. Of the five she got into one of them was not financially possible, so we didn't bother visiting. She had a real choice of four schools. Two of them we had visited so she focused on visiting the two schools she had not seen first. She went to both of their visiting programs. Luckily, they were located in the same state so we were able to do them on the same visit. She revisited the one school that was a car ride away without a hotel involved. If it turned out that she didn't like either one of the far away ones we were going to have her revisit the fourth, but she fell in love with one of the far away ones that she only saw this April.
Try to allow two days at each college when deciding. The first day you are a little overwhelmed, the second day all the good and bad things start to show. One of the ones she visited after decisions came out she loved the first day. On the second day she started to realize that it wasn't quite right for a number of reasons. By th time we left, she was more then ready to get out of there. The college she chose was the opposite. The first day it was so forboding and scary and different she was a little freaked out and talking about going somewhere else. On the second day she had gotten used to the differences from where we live and she started to see all the wonderful things about the college and started to love it more and more as the hours went by. She hardly wanted to leave when it was time to leave.
Visiting was the easiest way to figure out if she wanted to apply or not, but it didn't seem necessary to the colleges. Three of the four colleges we never saw she was admitted to (waitlisted at one). If the college is within driving distance I would say to go and visit for sure. If not, then let the budget decide. Visiting colleges was really fun for us. It was a time with just our daughter that we probably won't see again.
Remember that once decisions come in you will likely have to spend the money to visit some of them next April. If finances are tight, save your visiting money until after decisions are in! Start saving for it now! We had to take our D out of school for several days. She couldn't choose a college she had never visited. We were able to compare financial aid packages and base our final visits on whether or not the college was financially possible for us, too. Also, I didn't want to just send her alone to visit across the country. I wasn't overprotective, I just wanted to see for myself where our money would be going.
Last edited on Thu May 29th, 2008 05:24 pm by outwest
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CardinalFang
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Posted: Thu May 29th, 2008 05:46 pm |
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So far, we have found the Princeton Review book most useful in evaluating the feel of different colleges. But first, your daughter should think about what she likes.
Does she want a cut-throat competitive school, or a more cooperative school?
Does she want a sorority/fraternity presence?
Would she be happy in a city? In the suburbs? In the country?
How would she feel about the cold winters of the Northeast and Midwest? What about the sunshine of the Southwest, or the humidity of the South?
Is it important to her to have a wide variety of classes in her areas of interest?
Are there some sports, clubs and activities that are important to her, that some schools might offer and others not? Music? Art?
Is ethnic and racial diversity important? Some schools are whiter than sour cream, others more ethnically diverse.
Are spectator sports like football and basketball important to her? Does she want a school with "school spirit"?
Does she want a school with a large core concentration, like Chicago, or would she prefer a school with few distribution requirements, like Brown?
Would she like a school with small freshman seminars such as are offered at small liberal arts colleges, or would she be happy in bigger introductory classes such as would be found at large state universities?
Is she the kind of person who will seek out opportunities, who would thrive at a large school with many academic and extracurriculars, or would she prefer a smaller school with a closer, more intimate community? Would she find a close community stifling and limiting?
Would she prefer a school with a serious honor code?
If you list the thirty schools and what kinds of things your daughter is interested in, we might be able to make some suggestions.
Last edited on Fri May 30th, 2008 01:41 am by CardinalFang
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outwest
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Posted: Fri May 30th, 2008 01:27 am |
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I just want to say, excellent list of questions, Cardinal. I am happy to see you added diversity in there because diversity ended up being important to my D when she thought at first it wouldn't be.
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CardinalFang
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Posted: Fri May 30th, 2008 02:00 am |
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And some more questions that you and your daughter should discuss:
First, on the matter of money, how much can the family afford for her college? If the family can't afford full freight, how will the balance be made up? Is the college under consideration generous with financial aid? Will your daughter want merit aid? If so, she'll need to apply to schools where she is well in the top quarter of all applicants.
Does she want to be at a school filled with trust fund babies?
Does she want a school where the women dress up and wear makeup, even for eight o'clock classes, or a school with a more casual attitude toward fashion?
Would she be happy in a women's college?
What about politics? Is she looking for a school where you can be anything but a Republican, or would a more conservative atmosphere suit her?
What about religion? Does she want a school with a particular religious affiliation? Would a school filled with non-believers make her uncomfortable?
What about a school where a substantial minority, or even a majority, of students smoke (cigarettes)?
How about alcohol? Almost all schools have a proportion of drinkers, but would it bother her/would she like a school with a large number of binge drinkers? Rural, coed, white schools with a lot of rich students and a large fraternity presence are reputedly the biggest "party schools" (schools where students binge drink a lot).
What about illegal drugs? How would she feel if a lot of her fellow students smoked dope?
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Consolation
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Posted: Fri May 30th, 2008 07:28 pm |
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CardinalFang wrote: And some more questions that you and your daughter should discuss:
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Does she want a school where the women dress up and wear makeup, even for eight o'clock classes, or a school with a more casual attitude toward fashion?
Are there such places?!?
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CardinalFang
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Posted: Fri May 30th, 2008 08:26 pm |
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Consolation wrote: CardinalFang wrote:
Does she want a school where the women dress up and wear makeup, even for eight o'clock classes,
Are there such places?!?
Either the Insider's Guide to Colleges or the Princeton Review describes one school that way. The name of that ghastly hellhole has been mercifully erased from my memory, but I think it's in the South.
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Kareni
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Posted: Fri May 30th, 2008 10:11 pm |
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HighlandMom wrote: ...Are there colleges near where you live that you could do "practice" visits?
She has visited both large and small schools and she definitely favors the smaller ones.
Also (and I can't believe I'm recommending this) you might see whether College Confidential has a section for any of the schools on her list. You might be able to dialog with students at those schools if they're CC members.
...
Also be on the lookout for schools coming to you in the way of college fairs, etc.
These are two good ideas. I'll keep my eye out for opportunites that are in my neighborhood.
Could she narrow down the list by location? Or other requirements? Sports? Dorm configuration? Religious or social organizations? City or rural? Large state univ or LAC?
Yes for LACs. No to a big Greek scene. Sports don't enter into her figurings. City or rural is harder to figure. She's not one for a metropolis, but I think town or city or suburbs would all be fine.
...
Just some ideas off the top of my head. I'm beginning to think this part of the process is as much a challenge as trying to teach them to read "
Thanks for all the suggestions! (Yes, reading looks easier at least in retrospect!)
Regards,
Kareni
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Kareni
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Posted: Fri May 30th, 2008 10:37 pm |
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Chedva wrote: What's her learning style? Does she do better in small discussion groups or does she hate to talk?
...
She would thrive, I believe, in the smaller discussion setting.
... Guaranteed housing for 4 years or availability of off-campus apartments?
Guaranteed housing would be vital for her. She's not a driver, so I think off campus living would not be a good fit.
...Large Greek life where a lot of the social life revolves around frats or no Greek life?
The latter or a smaller Greek population would both be fine.
Big time sports or couldn't care less?
Couldn't care less for sports!
As far as her major is concerned, what's the size of the department? How many professors? If one leaves on sabbatical, will there still be enough classes for her to take? How many classes are there and what are the choices of classes? How often are required classes given? I know one kid who had problems with a required class because it was given only once every two years, and she didn't realize that until her junior year - it wasn't available her senior year.
These points are really worth investigating for her. She's looked at a few LACs where there are only two faculty members in the Classics department.
Does she want a "core" curriculum, with lots of required courses regardless of major (like Columbia or Chicago)? Would she prefer the flexibility of no core (like Vassar or Brown)? Or somewhere in the middle, with "distribution requirements"?
She'd prefer no core or moderate distribution requirements.
What are her favorite ECs? Which schools have them? What's something she's always wanted to try? Which school might give her that opportunity?
You've given me much food for thought here, Chedva. Thanks so much!
Regards,
Kareni
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Kareni
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Posted: Fri May 30th, 2008 10:44 pm |
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Mrs. Aardvark wrote: Is the "feel" of the campus important to her?
I think that "feel" would be important to her.
Trying searching on YouTube for clips of the campus.
Reading between the lines of school descriptions can tell you a lot about a school. Is it a "work hard, play hard" kind of school? Do they pride themselves on their football team? What kind of pictures are on display when you go to the web site?
What about the questions on the application? Do they encourage applicants to send along additional materials (dance DVD, music CD, athletic clippings, whatever) or do they not accept such materials at all? What kind of questions do they ask on their supplement (is it an intellectual essay type question, how will you add to our diversity type question, why do you want to live in our fab city question)?
All of these are great food for thought!
I think these are all signs of the kind of students they are looking for, as well as how they assess applicants. Such signs should help your daughter sense if these are her kind of people. Thanks for all the suggestions, Mrs. Aardvark (love the name!). We do want her to feel comfortable wherever she goes. (Though I'd also like for her to stretch and grow.)
Regards,
Kareni
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Kareni
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Posted: Fri May 30th, 2008 10:49 pm |
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warblers wrote:
If she is at all interested in graduate school, I'd also carefully examine research opportunities and funding. Many colleges proudly announce their emphasis on undergraduate research while providing little support in actuality. My own university, for example, offers virtually no research money to undergraduates outside the sciences. This can be problematic for summer research/programs; many archaeological field schools run around $4-6k, for example.
Hmm, the long range plan is still somewhat uncertain. She doesn't envision herself going on to graduate school in the Classics, but I'm not sure whether or not that will change.
How would one go about determining whether such funding exists for undergraduate research?
Thanks for the idea, Warblers!
Regards,
Kareni
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Kareni
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Posted: Fri May 30th, 2008 11:39 pm |
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Trying a different approach to commenting as I feel as though I'm taking over the board!
Wstrdg said,
I think college visits are important, but I was surprised at how different our visits felt when my S was just a prospective applicant versus when he was an admitted student. Admitted student day is the absolute best time to visit, IMO. Everything looked about the same when S was a prospect. When he was "admitted," tho, it was easy to spot the differences.
Not sure that will help you much, unless you really want your D to apply to 30 colleges!
Nope, we definitely don't want her applying to 30 colleges, so this is good to hear. I can well imagine the college visit feels different when your child is saying, "Tell me why I should come here instead of going to College B."
Outwest said,
Try to allow two days at each college when deciding. The first day you are a little overwhelmed, the second day all the good and bad things start to show.
This is good to know.
Remember that once decisions come in you will likely have to spend the money to visit some of them next April. If finances are tight, save your visiting money until after decisions are in! Start saving for it now! We had to take our D out of school for several days. She couldn't choose a college she had never visited. We were able to compare financial aid packages and base our final visits on whether or not the college was financially possible for us, too.
We'll start saving now as I think this will be a likely scenario for us as well. Whether the college is financially feasible is going to be a huge driver for us, so it will be good to have all the financial aid offers in hand before planning trips to more distant colleges.
No need to apologize for a long post. I enjoyed hearing how your daughter's list changed due to various circumstances.
CardinalFang said,
Does she want a cut-throat competitive school, or a more cooperative school?
Definitely the latter over the former.
How would she feel about the cold winters of the Northeast and Midwest? What about the sunshine of the Southwest, or the humidity of the South?
She doesn't seem to think this would be too important; however, my husband and I are somewhat skeptical given years of listening to complaints about how cold it was (on a 60 degree day)!
Is she the kind of person who will seek out opportunities, who would thrive at a large school with many academic and extracurriculars, or would she prefer a smaller school with a closer, more intimate community? Would she find a close community stifling and limiting?
This is such a great pair of questions. I'd say she'd love the smaller school with the more intimate community so long as it provided the academic and extracurricular activities in which she's interested! (Can't we have the best of all possible worlds?) She's always been one to have an interest in trying new things, but would she seek those opportunites out? I don't know.
... on the matter of money, how much can the family afford for her college?
Not a whole lot. Financial aid and/or merit aid will be crucial.
If the family can't afford full freight, how will the balance be made up? Is the college under consideration generous with financial aid? Will your daughter want merit aid? If so, she'll need to apply to schools where she is well in the top quarter of all applicants.
Yes, we're trying to look for schools in which she'd be in the top quarter of applicants which also provide generous financial and merit aid.
Does she want a school where the women dress up and wear makeup, even for eight o'clock classes, or a school with a more casual attitude toward fashion?
The latter!
Would she be happy in a women's college? Yes, in fact Bryn Mawr is a school that she visited and liked. She appreciated the fact that it has reciprocity arrangements with other co-ed schools so that she would not necessarily be in an all woman environment all the time.
What about politics? Is she looking for a school where you can be anything but a Republican, or would a more conservative atmosphere suit her?
She'd prefer something more middle of the road rather than extreme in either direction.
Does she want a school with a particular religious affiliation?
No, she'd be comfortable in all but the most religiously conservative venue. As regards drinking, smoking and drugs, she's not a partier; however, I believe she'd be comfortable with those items in moderation. If, however, one needed to drink to fit in, that would not work for her.
**** A priority for her in her chosen college would be the absence of big bugs; however, the size of the resident bug population does not merit a rating in most college guide books!
Thank you for all the ideas. I'm preparing a list of items for my daughter to consider as she goes through her piles of college literature. More suggestions are always welcome!
Regards,
Kareni Last edited on Fri May 30th, 2008 11:41 pm by Kareni
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Mrs. Aardvark
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Posted: Sat May 31st, 2008 12:09 am |
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Just for fun...and to show you why I think the essay question is revealing....
Match the supplemental question with the right college:
A: There are only a handful of nationally recognized liberal arts colleges located in cities. How might XXX’s location in XXX shape your college experience? What additional characteristics influenced your decision to apply to XXX?
B: Some say that oxygen is the most important element on Earth, for without it we would all die. Others say it is carbon dioxide, water, or chorophyll, etc. Select en element, molecule, or compound, and justify ranking it as the most important chemical to our planet.
C: "The XXX College book of love, luck, fame, flops, art, soup, soul, sweat, green lights, big ideas, impossible questions, captains, huggers, band, marmots, glaciers, risks …and everything else otherwise known as life.” What words otherwise describe you or your life? No essay required, just words.
D: Select a fictional character to be your freshman roommateand explain why he/she/it would be a good choice.
E: Name the secondary school teacher who has most influenced you and briefly explain why.
Schools:
Beloit
Carleton
Occidental
University of South Carolina Honors Program
Trinity UniversityLast edited on Sat May 31st, 2008 12:10 am by Mrs. Aardvark
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Kareni
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Posted: Sat May 31st, 2008 12:28 am |
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Mrs. Aardvark wrote: Just for fun...and to show you why I think the essay question is revealing....
Match the supplemental question with the right college:
... Those are wonderful questions! I don't know the colleges well enough to guess which question goes with which college; however, I know that I'd prefer to answer this one ...
C: "The XXX College book of love, luck, fame, flops, art, soup, soul, sweat, green lights, big ideas, impossible questions, captains, huggers, band, marmots, glaciers, risks …and everything else otherwise known as life.” What words otherwise describe you or your life? No essay required, just words.
Thanks for sharing them.
Regards,
Kareni
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outwest
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Posted: Sat May 31st, 2008 04:52 am |
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Well, Kareni, my D will be going to Bryn Mawr next year and is extremely excited about it (that is the school she fell in love with on the second day of our visit). Everything you have said your D is looking for points to a place like Bryn Mawr. Besides, they have great food and dorms. LOL I hope she applies. Also, just so you know, they were one of the most generous financial aid packages she received and they don't even give merit aid. What they did do was give her a financial aid package that really matched our EFC in grant, not a bunch of loans. She won't be taking the loan.There is a rumor that they are considering going loan free. They have not said that in writing anywhere, but it is a rumor. I tend to believe it, though, because they met our efc in grant this year and took into account where we lived and true travel cost, too. We will be paying quite a good chunk, it is not free by any means, but it is a chunk we are happy to swallow for her. I am happy to hear your D liked it there.
Scripps is a similar college in a consortium in California. I hope she looks at it, too.
Last edited on Sat May 31st, 2008 04:53 am by outwest
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