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WestrnMom
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Posted: Mon Dec 10th, 2007 11:04 pm |
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My children like getting A's. I'm trying to convince them that a B is not failing. S's school didn't give out midsemester grade sheets that I know of, so it's all hypothetical right now. I have no idea what grades he's going to end up with this semester. I'd like to hear your thoughts on grades in college, especially if you have children who are used to getting As and expected to do the same in their college coursework. This must be an issue for children other than mine, since the entire focus of the high school grading system centers around whether they will achieve high enough grades to get into the colleges they are aiming for. It's very difficult to go from needing As to finding Bs or Cs acceptable.
Some of the themes we've discussed are if B's or a 3.0 (or3.2) GPA looks bad when applying to grad school. Do prospective employers look at GPAs before hiring employees with a bachelor's degree? What happens if they get a few C's over the course of their college careers? Will those grades be considered second rate?
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CarolynLawrence
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Posted: Tue Dec 11th, 2007 12:08 am |
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With a few exceptions, my daughter's grades in college have been really close to her grades in high school. She was never a straight A student.
She struggled with math and science in high school, and the same has held true in college.
She earned mostly A's in art, English and social science in high school, and the same has held true in college.
Her overall GPA is just a tad lower than her GPA in high school, and that's mainly due to two courses last semester that she didn't do well in.
What has changed from her first semester in college, however, is that she is gradually getting better at managing her time, which helps keep her stress levels to a manageable roar. However, she has been very suprised, I think, by how HARD college is! I remember her telling me that one of the reasons she wanted to go to Beloit is that she didn't want to go to a school where she'd be running all the time to keep up. Well, surprise, surprise. Beloit may be easier to get into than some, but the workload is still pretty intense, at least for my daughter.
I'm not sure how closely employers look at GPAs. I know that some do (my husband works for a federal lab, and GPA is considered in hiring new entry level workers), but many don't (I never was asked for my college GPA in all my years of working). Perhaps, to some extent, it depends on the field as well.
Last edited on Tue Dec 11th, 2007 12:09 am by CarolynLawrence
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Consolation
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Posted: Tue Dec 11th, 2007 12:12 am |
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When I was at Wellesley in the 70s, the average grade given was a C. You could not drop classes. Eventually they decided to let us drop courses within the first two weeks, but if there hadn't been any graded work handed in yet--which was not unusual in the first two weeks--it was listed as "dropped FAILING"! 
At some point, the administration sent around a memo informing us that there was no such thing as an A+, which caused much hilarity. Most people were wondering if there was such a thing as an A-.
Nowadays, I don't know.
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Consolation
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Posted: Tue Dec 11th, 2007 12:18 am |
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WestrnMom wrote: Some of the themes we've discussed are if B's or a 3.0 (or3.2) GPA looks bad when applying to grad school.
In my experience, graduate departments put more emphasis on your grades and preparation in your field, and your GREs and recs.
Professional schools may look at your GPA more, as well as your scores on LSATs and the like.
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Lynda
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Posted: Tue Dec 11th, 2007 12:36 am |
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When son was a freshman, somewhere we received something that said that you should not be upset if grades were "x" lower in college. I cannot remember what "x" was-I think it was a whole grade less. Redlands does say they want students to to explore and even risk failure, that is why the gpa to keep merit aid doesn't count till the end of the soph year.
I think son's grades were pretty much the same or better in college. He had a couple really tough AP HS teachers that were into making the class "just like college". He learned but it was a struggle to get the B (4.0). Once he was really sweating for a 3.0 C in a lit class-ended up a B. I think he works harder but uses better time management in college than was necessary in HS. He also seems to find something exciting/challenging in each class. This was not the case for HS. Son is always adding on more responsibility, I hope it ends up helping him when he enters the real world. His fraternity involvement has helped him organize his time.
I have never been asked for my grades for jobs. All pharmacists need these days are a current license and a pulse. Grades were important for pharmacy school admisison.
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mattmom
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Posted: Tue Dec 11th, 2007 01:23 am |
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I've heard from my children that some firms, notably financial/investment/banking do have specific GPA requirements, in the 3.5 range and certainly over 3.0. I suspect they are somewhat flexible depending upon school and connections and just don't advertise their flexibility.
My sense, based on an extremely limited sample over the past few years, is that a 3.3/3.4 from a top LAC will work to get you into a very good (top fifteen) graduate or (top ten) law program if GRE and recommendations are good in the first instance or LSAT is outstanding in the second instance. Overall I think some Bs are fine and that college grades are likely to be a few tenths of a point below the high school grades--a school 3.8 would seem to translate to about a 3.5 or less in our experience but I'm sure there are many students who have more than matched their high school grades--my children just don't seem to know them. In any case, there are so many variables in terms of course of study and grading standards. (Med school is presumably less forgiving, but again, a strong MCAT score would probably smooth over some Bs though perhaps not multiple Cs.)
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CarolynLawrence
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Posted: Tue Dec 11th, 2007 02:19 am |
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Consolation's comment about grad schools looking more at grades in the field/major, brings up a good point. If you are struggling to earn B's in your major, perhaps you just haven't found the right major yet.  This was brought home to my daughter last spring when she realized that she could either struggle through Beloit's stats and science-focused psych major earning mostly B's, or she could major in art and earn straight A's. She needed reassurance that majoring in art wasn't taking the easy way out -- it was just following her true passion and what she is best at. I remember having a similar realization in college myself.
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DesperateDad
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Posted: Tue Dec 11th, 2007 06:18 am |
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It's important to remember that, by definition, at every college, 49% of the matriculants will be in the bottom half of thier class.....
Grad schools should be separated between professional schools (law, med, pharm, dent) where overall gpa + test scores are paramount, and MA-PhD programs where grades in major count more vs. overall grades. Moreove,r, Frosh grades aren't as important as upper class grades AND recs.
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Lynda
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Posted: Tue Dec 11th, 2007 03:30 pm |
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Carolyn,
When I read about your daughter's decision, I was reminded of my son. He had a huge cloud drift away when he realized that following his passion and doing something he was good at (teaching) was not taking the easy way out. I can still see and feel when he told us after a concert. He had also just cut his hair, with his relief and new look I didn't recognize him. I said "there's son, oops no, oh it is him".
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leftcoast
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Posted: Wed Dec 12th, 2007 01:24 am |
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When my daughter called me last year in a panic over a C on her first midterm, and stressed out and considering the Pass/D/F in another class where she was struggling, I told her that "in college, a "B" is like an "A" in high school. So that "C" is really like a "B".
I made that up. I have no clue what her college grading practices are like. But it made my d. feel a whole lot better. She thanked me profusely and said she wished someone had told her that to begin with.
After that she started doing much better in those classes -- she has gotten two B's and A's in all her other classes, including an A+ in a 5-unit course in the spring.
So I think it helped her tremendously just to know that it was ok to get B's and C's. I think then she stopped worrying about grades and started focusing on learning - and that in turn resulted in better grades.
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WestrnMom
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Posted: Thu Dec 13th, 2007 02:31 am |
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CarolynLawrence wrote:However, she has been very suprised, I think, by how HARD college is! I remember her telling me that one of the reasons she wanted to go to Beloit is that she didn't want to go to a school where she'd be running all the time to keep up. Well, surprise, surprise. Beloit may be easier to get into than some, but the workload is still pretty intense, at least for my daughter.
That is true for my son as well. His school had the reputation among some students of being easier to get into, but actually, their average GPA is as high or higher than that of schools that turned down a lot of qualified students, so it must be relative. The workload is about right for him, but they have to work extremely hard for the grades they earn. He is working as hard or harder than he did in high school. He seems to be very well organized. Yet he has commented that some of the exams and grading policies are challenging, especially if they grade on a curve. His high school didn't. It was straight percentages, however at least you knew your grades were based only on how hard you work and how well you mastered the material rather than in comparison to others in the class.
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WestrnMom
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Posted: Thu Dec 13th, 2007 02:39 am |
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Lynda, I'm laughing at your take on pharmacists and jobs (license and a pulse). I do like the Redlands philosophy that it's better to try new things and fail or struggle with them than to take a safe and easy path. One of the challenges is that they do take classes in a variety of fields, sometimes with students who are upperclassmen finishing up a last requirement. They end up with a very broad-based education and a lot of life skills. I also like their community service requirement.
Leftcoast, I believe that is true. I told my son the same thing. An A in college is like an A in a AP in high school, B's are more like A's and, C's are more like B's. It may not be that cut and dried but there is some truth to it. At UCLA, for example, the minimum GPA required to be considered for undergrad admissions is a 3.5, where it's a 3.0 for grad school. That doesn't mean someone with a 3.5 can get into undergrad, of course, but they can at least apply and get consideration.
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Thumper
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Posted: Sat Dec 22nd, 2007 05:28 pm |
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| DD's experience with grades has been similar to Carolyn's daughters. Her college GPA is virtually identical to her unweighted GPA in high school (3.39). She gets some A's, mostly B's of some kind, and hasn't gotten a C....yet.
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