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RMmom
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Posted: Fri Dec 7th, 2007 01:51 pm |
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I haven't seen a thread for this group yet, so I thought I would start it.
Last night, I was sitting at the Cross Country Team EOS banquet and talking to some other sophomore parents. Several of them were talking about meetings they had had with the guidance councelors. So naturally, being the clueless parent that I am, I asked how to set that up. They all said that the meetings had been initiated by the Councelors, not the kids. So now I am wondering, are they only doing this for some kids, or have they just not gotten around to my kid yet. What is the criteria they are using to determine which kids and parent to meet with?
One parent said that they had met with the school councelor, and then hired a private councelor and were told something totally different about curriculum and what classes to take. She said it seemed like the school councelor was giving them the Cal State path and the privat councelor was going the UC or Private path.
Anyway, I just wanted to hear where other sophomore parents are in this process. Do most schools have councelor initiated meetings during the sophomore year? What is the general focus of these meetings? Etc.
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warblers
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Posted: Fri Dec 7th, 2007 02:22 pm |
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I would guess that it's more common in small high schools. In all four years of high school, I only met with a counselor two times- once for my graduation speech and once for a summer program application. My sister has yet to meet with a counselor, and she's a junior.
My school did allow students to schedule appointments with counselors, but I didn't see the point in it because they were utterly useless. 
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leftcoast
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Posted: Sat Dec 8th, 2007 08:38 pm |
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My kids attended different public high schools, -- and I never had a face-to-face, conference with any of their counselors. I met my son's g.c. (1 counselor for 750 students) via phone after college apps were in -- somewhere along the line I called her to thank her for assistance and to offer some of our no-longer-needed college books and mail. My d had 3 counselors at a school with 600 students -- 2 for high school planning, etc. -- and 1 who was a part-timer hired by the PTA for college counseling. I did meet and talk to the college counselor, as he set up an email list for a parents -- but I also was not involved in a face-to-face "talk about my kid" conference with him. I simply assumed that stuff was something the kid did without parents. The email list kept me informed as to what was scheduled -- and I "conferred" with my daughter before & after her meetings with the counselor, so I pretty much knew what was going on.
I do think my son's g.c. was giving advice geared to California UC & Cal State admissions criteria, and that she didn't have a clue as to private admissions -- but given the school demographics I think that made sense. My d was at an arts magnet, so her college counselor was much more knowledgeable about private colleges -- I'll bet he knew all about audition and portfolio requirements as well, though we didn't need it. (D. is not pursuing dance seriously in college).
I am thinking that it might be possible that at your school, the g.c. is choosing to meet first with the kids who are somewhat off track in terms of course selection or GPA -- B & C students who haven't signed up for all the courses they would need to meet for CSU requirements. That would account for the CSU-focus. Of course, if those parents are hiring private counselors then I might be very wrong -- but it would make sense for a busy counselor to set up parent conferences sophomore year for kids who had some sort of problem rather than the ones who clearly are doing everything right.... and I learned a long time ago to take what other parents said with a grain of salt.
In any case, if your kid's grades are strong and the kid is already enrolled in all the courses required for UC admission.... no need to have a conference with the GC sophomore year. You can easily pull that info from the UC admissions site. Two things to be aware of (that some parents might miss) -- both the UC's & CSU's have a fine arts requirement, so somewhere along the line your kid should take 2 semesters an arts course (some high schools build this in as a series of shorter courses or components of other classes) -- and if your kid is an A student, then you want to review the course requirements for ELC ("eligibility in the local context") to make sure that those courses are taken by the 11th grade. ELC is the admissions benefit conferred to students who are in the top 4% of their classes at the end of 11th grade, but the GPA is drawn from a specific set of courses so it is important to make sure those have been covered. Whether or not your kid is UC-bound, meeting UC requirements will provide a good foundation for private college admission as well.
Last edited on Mon Dec 10th, 2007 02:03 am by leftcoast
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outwest
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Posted: Sun Dec 9th, 2007 03:00 pm |
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left coast, nice post. I just wanted to clarify the arts requirement at the CSU and the UC's. The art must be two semesters of the SAME class. You can't take one of photography and one of orchestra, for example. I know more then one kid that was messed up because of that.
Last edited on Sun Dec 9th, 2007 03:01 pm by outwest
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RMmom
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Posted: Sun Dec 9th, 2007 03:45 pm |
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This whole arts requirement is something we are struggling with right now. The way my D figures it, with 3 years of foriegn language, 2 semesters of art, athletics, and 1 semester of health (graduation requirement), at some point she is either going to have to go to summer school or take 7 classes. There is simply no way to fit all those requirements into a 6 period standard schedule.
This is one of the reasons I would like her to meet with the GC, so that we can get a better idea of the best way to fit in all the requirements.
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DesperateDad
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Posted: Sun Dec 9th, 2007 04:16 pm |
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Kids attend a Calif public (2500 kids) with only 3.5 counselors, so Soph one-on-one's are limited to kids who are struggling, either academically and/or socially. Instead, the GCs do provide a "parent's" night for individual classes, where they discuss: 1) HS graduation requirements; 2) Cal State/UC "a-g" course admission requirements (which are now identical, btw); 3) what to expect for the upcoming year.
fwiw: both of my non-artsy kids really enjoyed AP Art History -- it fulfills the UC-Cal State VAPA requirement, and earns a bonus point in the UC gpa calc.
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CarolynLawrence
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Posted: Sun Dec 9th, 2007 04:51 pm |
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I think it is wonderful when a sophomore parent wants to meet with counselors to get a sense of what curriculum will work best. As DesparateDad notes above, both the CSU system and the Cal State system require that the SAME A-G courses be met, so if you meet the curriculum requirements for one, you will meet it for the other system. The difference between the two really lies in how they look at test scores and the minimum A-G requirements for eligibility.
For the UC system, Cal residents need a minimum of a 3.0 GPA in those A-G requirements. For the CSU system, the minimum GPA in A-G requirements is 2.0. Test score minimums for both systems are based on a sliding scale for different GPAs. However, as I said, there are some major differences in test requirements, and how they are used to determine eligibility.
At present (this may be changing) the UC's require the SAT or ACT and two Subject Tests. This is important for sophomore parents to know, because the best time to take those Subject Tests is at the end of the highest level course in the subject -- in some cases, that might be sophomore year, especially for some of the science tests. Additionally, the UCs use all three parts of the SAT to determine eligibility. I agree with Cal Mom - it is a very good idea to visit the UC homepage http://www.ucop.edu/pathways and get knowledgable about how the tests factor in with the GPA.
The CSU's require the same A-G curriculum as the UC's, so if your daughter is on track to meet one, she'll meet the other. However, as I said, the CSU's treat testing differently. They don't require or consider Subject Tests, and eligibility is determined based solely on the math and reading sections of the SAT - writing isn't considered. The lower the GPA, the higher the math and reading scores need to be to be eligible. However, *most* of the CSU's don't even consider test scores if your A-G GPA is above 3.0. There are some exceptions (SDSU and Cal Poly San Luis Obispo, and some impacted programs), but this is a big difference between the UC and CSU eligibility requirements. Also keep in mind that the CSU's primary mission is to serve their local area, so if you meet the A-G requirements and the test score requirements for eligibility in many cases you are guaranteed admission to your local campus. For instance, here in San Diego, everyone meeting the minimums that lives south of Rt. 56 is guaranteed admission to SDSU (this too might be changing however), while everyone north of 56 is guaranteed admission to Cal State San Marcos (again, the guarantee is based on meeting the A-G GPA and test score requirements). You can get details about CSU admissions at http://www.csumentor.edu
Unfortunately, because a majority of students in California really are only interested in the UC/CSU system, school counselors don't always have the knowledge needed to help with private school admissions. Some do, some don't. One of the reasons talking to your school counselor early in the game is useful is to get a sense of their knowledge about private school admissions and their relationships with private school admissions people. If your child is thinking about applying privately, and you sense that the school counselor doesn't have a solid knowledge of private admissions, that's when hiring an independent can make some sense.
However, one caution: there are A LOT of people setting out a shingle and calling themselves "independent counselors" these days, so it is important to really ask questions to make sure that they DO know what they are talking about. I would stick with counselors who are members of either the Higher Education Consultants Association (HECA) or the Independent Education Consulting Association (IECA). Both professional organizations have stringent membership requirements and typically independents who are members of one or both of these are more professional and better informed. Both organizations have searchable member databases on their websites.
Last edited on Sun Dec 9th, 2007 04:56 pm by CarolynLawrence
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DesperateDad
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Posted: Sun Dec 9th, 2007 05:55 pm |
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| small update to carolyn's post: if an applicant is going to submit the ACT to the UCs, they must also include the optional ACT Writing-essay. Note, however, that the optional ACT-W is not required for the Cal States; neither the SAT Writing not the ACT Writing is used in Cal State admissions. Last edited on Sun Dec 9th, 2007 10:06 pm by DesperateDad
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CarolynLawrence
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Posted: Sun Dec 9th, 2007 08:23 pm |
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| Thanks, DD, that is indeed an important distinction, although less so now that you have to take the SAT with writing. They just won't consider it in terms of your eligibility.
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WestrnMom
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Posted: Sun Dec 9th, 2007 09:38 pm |
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One went to public, one to private. The public high school head counselor had one parent/child meeting with the entire senior class in the gym. It was very basic, mostly how to apply to the UCs and Cal States. Otherwise, they were completely on their own unless they made appointments a few weeks in advance to talk to another counselor for 15 minute periods.
The private school has a meeting with the sophomore class and parents, one with the junior class and parents, individual meetings with each student in the spring of junior year, and then a parent/student meeting, also spring of junior year. Students are encouraged to talk to the counselor individually as often as they wanted to. In the fall of senior year, they are required to have another individual meeting, to provide a list of all colleges they are planning to apply to, and the number of recs they need.
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newberry
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Posted: Sun Dec 9th, 2007 09:51 pm |
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| In reading this thread I'm starting to believe that our (high) school taxes translate into tangible benefit. Having seen S1 off to college and now looking ahead for S2 (class of 2010), I can say that our high school counselors schedule a meeting with each student and their parents in the spring of each year to discuss next year's curriculum choices with an eye towards the entire HS career and preparation for college. (I am in upstate New York.) The student generally is paired with the same counselor all 4 years, so the counselors have some personable knowledge of the student when college recommendations come around.
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RMmom
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Posted: Mon Jan 7th, 2008 01:45 pm |
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Well, we finally got notified that our conference with the guidance councelor is scheduled for this coming Thursday. Unfortunately, it is at a time when my husband is not available and they are unable to re-schedule, so I will be going alone (with D of course).
I have no idea what to expect, but would love some suggestions for what to ask. I want to know that she is taking the right courses for college admissions, but I would also like to discuss other factors that might impact her future.
The timing for the meeting is perfect, since we are in the last week of the semester. If there need to be changes to her curriculum, we can implement them right away rather than waiting until first semester of her junior year.
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Fireflyscout
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Posted: Tue Jan 29th, 2008 03:19 pm |
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| And the flood begins. Colleges have now received the PSAT information and have started to flood email boxes and snailmail boxes.
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mathmom
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Posted: Tue Jan 29th, 2008 07:17 pm |
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Our counselors don't generally meet with sophomore parents, but they will be meeting with the kids over the next couple of months planning next years schedules. The head GC and heads of all the departments talked at the last PTA meeting about course offerings and generally what is required to graduate.
The big issues I'm anticipating are whether my son takes another year of Latin - he's finishing up Latin 3, but will only have two years in high school. Another issue will be whether he gets back on the honors track in math - scheduling issues kept him off it this year. Third question will be which AP science he takes if any.
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globetrotter
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Posted: Tue Jan 29th, 2008 09:00 pm |
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Mathmom, I am interested in the outcome of your Latin deliberation. My daughter is a fourth year Latin student, but only a sophomore. She took the Latin subject test and got a 700, but does not want to retake the test. She would like to pursue another language, in addition or instead of Latin, but is worried about not having enough high school Latin years. She is already fluent in German, but would like to add Italian.
Would your son take another language? Does he want to continue with Latin?
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RMmom
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Posted: Sat Feb 2nd, 2008 01:31 am |
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We had a very interesting meeting with D's GC today. She went over the planned curriculum for the next 2 1/2 years and asked D what her goals were. We discussed the pros and cons of taking honors and AP classes and what was required to get into the schools D wants to attend. GC was very positive and upbeat about D's goals and helped her plan a curriculum that would hopefully give her the best shot at the schoold she wants to attend. She did however admonish D to get her grades up.
We talked about good fit schools (UC Santa Cruz, UCSD), stretch schools (BC) and safety schools (Cal State Long Beach). We also talked about potential areas of study.
I found out that we don't need to worry about schools seeing the C in math since they only report overall GPA and not individual class grade. Since her GPA is still strong, she is in good shape.
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outwest
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Posted: Sat Feb 2nd, 2008 03:26 am |
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I've never heard of a school not sending a complete transcript and only the overall gpa. You should check on that. I believe the colleges request the individual scores.
In our public high school they have one individual meeting with the counselor and a group info session at night for the parents and students every year. In Freshman year they do a four year plan with the parents in group sessions of about ten families at a time. That takes almost three weeks of three separate sessions a night to finish. It can be adjusted along the way. In Sophomore year they start talking about their eventual college or career plans. In Junior year they have a financial aid group meeting, group meetings in their English classes and one individual meeting. They can set up appointments with the counselors and they have a college/career office open with loads of books and stuff with a technician to help. They can use that any time. Recently, against all odds, they hired two more counselors in addition to the four they had. Even though I think they do a decent job for a public school and really do try, the bulk of the work is left to the parents. In addition, the bulk of the advising is to the Cal States and UC's, but if you meet those requirements you have met most of the private schools requirements, too.
The only time they purposefully call a parent in to talk with the counselor is if something bad has happened. The parents do make appointments with the counselors all the time, though.
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RMmom
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Posted: Sat Feb 2nd, 2008 03:19 pm |
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My understanding is that this meeting is a one time thing for each kid in their Sophomore year. I know from talking to parents of older kids that the meetings have been going on for a very long time. Judging from the number of students lingering in the hallway and occasionally popping their heads into the office, the GC's have an open door policy for the kids.
As far as the grades go, I may have misunderstood her response to my question. I asked her how the C in math would effect D's chances with some of the better colleges and she said that they only look at overall GPA, not individual classes. GC also told us that since D is clearly heading in a Liberal Arts direction, math and science grades will factor into her GPA, but will not really be figured too much in the admissions decisions.
It is comforting to know at this point that D has a plan in place for HS. We may want to make changes along the way, but at least we know where she is headed in terms of AP and honors classes, clubs, sports, etc.
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jocelynDAD
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Posted: Sat Feb 2nd, 2008 04:20 pm |
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RMmom wrote: GC also told us that since D is clearly heading in a Liberal Arts direction, math and science grades will factor into her GPA, but will not really be figured too much in the admissions decisions.
This GC's comments are risky. I really do not know how any individual Adcom or adcom office might view your D or any child's transcript, BUT as a general statement of Adcom decisions, the GC is all wet IMO.
The quality of the classes vis a vis the opportunities for AP and Honors classes is a key consideration in most if not all selective colleges. Further, the academic performance in the 'harder' classes, most especially science and math are noted and often weighted accordingly.
Why - well math classes tend to govern the selection of students during middle school. The 'better' students are channeled into 'harder' math at the 6th or 7th grade level. These students are considered on the 'fast track' and tend to remain clustered (especially in the smaller HS populations) - so for all their classes the chanelled students remain together for History/English/Language as well as Math and Science.
Ergo: when an Adcom see C's in Math or Science, the chances are high that they then look closer at the entire record and school academic opportunities.
Now a C in the Sophomore year is not a death knell by any means, but it is not a positive IF it causes your D to be in a 'lower track' in her school.
So take a closer look at the school's curriculum and assess yourself the position within the school's academic opportunities that your D's will be undertaking. Then, I suggest, you view it with the eye of a stranger and consider how her schedule ranks.
BTW, the GC's comments would be reasonable if it is to your state's public colleges/universities as the volume of applications and the public funding causes the Adcom to look at the GPA not the individual classes, in most cases.
Private colleges and universities, are another situation entirely.
Last edited on Sat Feb 2nd, 2008 04:22 pm by jocelynDAD
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Chedva
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Posted: Sat Feb 2nd, 2008 04:30 pm |
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These students are considered on the 'fast track' and tend to remain clustered (especially in the smaller HS populations) - so for all their classes the chanelled students remain together for History/English/Language as well as Math and Science.
To some extent this may be true, but look carefully at your high school's population. My d did not take honors math after 9th grade; she dropped down to standard but was still able to take calculus. All her other classes, though, were honors or AP, so for language, history, English, science, etc., she was with the kids who also took honors or AP math.
D's high school had a packet that showed a sample transcript and high school profile that would get sent to colleges. That's when we found out that only final, not semester, grades were sent. You may want to ask if your school has such a sample and see if the C will even appear.
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