 |
| Author | Post |
|---|
hummingbird
Member
|
Posted: Sun Sep 23rd, 2007 07:25 pm |
|
A student would need 4 years of English, Math, Science, etc. so how do they do that in 3 years? My freshman daughter is mulling over the idea. I suggested she talk to her guidance counselor, but in the meantime, I wondered if any of you know?
Obviously there's a lot to consider here - socially, emotionally, etc. But she is an extremely bright girl who is, in some ways, much more mature than her peers. Academically she is way ahead of her peers, and finds it frustrating that others don't take schoolwork as seriously as she does. I'm wondering if maybe a year (or half year) as an exchange student might not be a better idea. But, oh, we would miss her.
|
WestrnMom
Super Moderator
| Joined: | Fri May 26th, 2006 |
| Location: | West Coast, USA |
| Posts: | 1161 |
| Mana: |   |
|
Posted: Mon Sep 24th, 2007 01:49 am |
|
Summer school or taking extra classes at a community college in the evening.
|
CarolynLawrence
Administrator
| Joined: | Sun Mar 5th, 2006 |
| Location: | USA |
| Posts: | 3191 |
| Mana: |  |
|
Posted: Mon Sep 24th, 2007 02:59 am |
|
If she just wants to graduate from high school, then, yes, she'll need to meet graduation requirements.
However, if her plan is to go to college immediatelly after her junior year of high school, things might be a little different. Some high schools will accept the first year of college as the last year of high school as long as the student meets the h.s. grad requirements with their college courses. She'll also need to plan her schedule carefully so that when she is ready to apply to college in junior year, she'll have already taken a crack at the SAT/ACT and any required subject exams, and have taken the right courses to make herself an attractive "early entrance" applicant at colleges.
One option you may want to look at is Simon's Rock College of Bard in MA - http://www.simons-rock.edu/ IT is a college specifically for kids who want to get out of high school early. Most kids start there after junior year, some after sophomore year. They can stay there for four years, but many then transfer after their sophomore college year (which would be their high school senior year). You might also want to look at the early entrance program at USC - they take about 50 or so kids at the end of junior year each year, and house them together and give them special support. There are also many community colleges that have similar programs. Many colleges will look at kids applying in junior year, but the student generally needs to be HIGHLY qualified and to demonstrate that he/she has solid reasons for wanting to leave high school early to attend college.
Starting with the GC is a good plan, but don't be surprised if the GC is sort of negative about this plan. High schools aren't set up for kids like this. 
Good luck to your daughter!
Last edited on Mon Sep 24th, 2007 03:03 am by CarolynLawrence
|
Wstrdg
Member
| Joined: | Mon Mar 6th, 2006 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 396 |
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Mon Sep 24th, 2007 03:07 am |
|
1. Univ of Southern Calif has an early entrance program called Resident Honors Program: http://www.usc.edu/dept/LAS/general_studies/RHP/
It's very selective and does not guarantee a high school diploma, in and of itself, but you will have sophomore standing at USC after you complete the year, and if you wish, you can apply to another university as a transfer admit.
2. The most selective private colleges don't require a high school diploma, but they are so hard to get into that it's not a safe bet. Harvard, for example, admits a few students after junior year, not under a special program like USC, but just as regular entering freshmen.
3. Good test scores (SAT/ACT plus SAT subject tests) and a GED might fill the bill.
Where does your D want to go to college?
|
hummingbird
Member
|
Posted: Mon Sep 24th, 2007 02:55 pm |
|
Thanks for the replies. My D wants to go to a LAC, straight out of high school. At this time (realizing she's 14) she wants to be an Oncologist. But I wouldn't be suprised if she ends up majoring in English, because that's really her love. Right now she's interested in Occidental College. She has no particular region of the country in mind.
A couple of students at their small HS have graduated early, so she's going to nose around and figure out how they did it. She did hear that the GC is not keen on students graduating early.
When she took the 8th grade version of the ACT last year, she did super well, so I'm expecting her test scores will be very good.
|
Wstrdg
Member
| Joined: | Mon Mar 6th, 2006 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 396 |
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Mon Sep 24th, 2007 03:23 pm |
|
| I don't see anything on Occidental's site about "admission requirements," such as recommended high school course load or whether a high school diploma is required. Have you called?
|
Wstrdg
Member
| Joined: | Mon Mar 6th, 2006 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 396 |
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Mon Sep 24th, 2007 03:32 pm |
|
A student would need 4 years of English, Math, Science, etc
The specific courses may be more important than whether or not they were studied in grades 9 - 12. For instance, the UC application specifically asks for math and foreign languages taken pre-grade 9: usually this means Algebra 1 in grade 7 or 8, foreign language starting in grade 7 or 8.
If your D is on an "honors" track, she probably took advanced science/math/foreign lang pre-gr 9. If her application documents that work, then she should be an attractive applicant after her junior year.
Birthdate and maturity do not necessarily coincide. And philosophies vary in different areas of the country. When we lived in the South, boys, especially, were "held back" until age 6.5 for first grade. Starting K before age 5 was discouraged. In Calif now, my son is starting college with roommates who began K at age 4.5, and first grade at 5.5, so he is a full year older.
Homeschooled high-achievers, particularly, will apply to university early, with success, especially if they have demonstrated ability at community college.
If this is what she wants, she needs to get busy and make it happen. She can always change her mind later. What's she planning to do this summer?
|
hummingbird
Member
|
Posted: Mon Sep 24th, 2007 03:43 pm |
|
No, I haven't called any colleges because this idea just came up.
My D started Japanese in 8th grade, so she will have 4 years by the end of Junior year, so she's OK there. She wouldn't mind doubling up on a science, so she would be OK there. She took Alg. 1 as an 8th grader, is taking Geometry now, will take Alg 2 as a Soph, and Pre-calc as a Junior. She is taking all the Honors courses available: right now Honors Biology, Honors English, and Honors Social Studies.
The real question is English. The AP Lit "class" is done differently here. It's offered as a Junior PLUS Senior class. You take it Junior year (it's called Lit & Comp 11), then take the Senior version (and the exam at the end of Senior year). That's when the AP part counts on the transcript. She would have to take both of them her Junior year, somehow. Our school also has a Capstone in Senior year that is a year-long project, and is a graduation requirement. So she would have to take Capstone as a Junior.
Don't know what she'll do this summer yet. She wants to volunteer at the hospital I work for. She would also love to take some summer college classes at the community college, but she might be too young for that. (?)
|
leftcoast
Member
|
Posted: Mon Sep 24th, 2007 06:22 pm |
|
Why does she want to graduate early?
Here's a different take: I graduated early and went to college at age 16. At that time my high school only required 3 years of English -- I applied to a UC campus as an out of stater and was admitted. The UC's required 4 years of English but apparently waived that requirement for me, perhaps because of my SAT scores. I did fine in college, went to law school immediately after graduating. In hindsight I gave up my childhood for no particularly good reason. I was a practicing lawyer at age 23, but I could have started at age 25 or 27 and my life would have been the same. There was no advantage to being young in a world where experience counts for a lot. I do think my youth and relative inexperience & lack of maturity limited employment prospects -- it always seemed like my classmates managed to get the better jobs.
My daughter took classes in 9th grade at her school that ordinarily were for 10th graders - geometry, biology. She took a semester abroad and lived in Russia 4 months during her junior year. During that year she arranged to take Honors English on an independent study basis -- working from a pre-agreed reading list and sending in assignments by email while she was abroad. She came back and had a somewhat tough time senior year, feeling more worldy than her peers and ready to move on, but she reaped the benefits when it came to college admissions -- she got admitted to her top choice colleges, all big reaches. Needless to say she had great material for her essays.
My d. had a high school friend, same age/grade, who decided to graduate early and applied to a large number of colleges - about 20. He was rejected from all of his reaches and ended up at one of the less selective UC campuses. I simply think that with only 3 years of high school he didn't have much to show those colleges.
There can be many good reasons to graduate from high school early, but even I didn't make the decision to do so at age 14. I was 15, finishing my 10th grade year when I decided to graduate, and my unhappiness at high school plus conflicts at home with my mom were major factors. It wasn't even my idea -- my mom suggested it, and I honestly think she was looking for a way to nudge me out the nest sooner.
It worked out o.k. for me but I am seeing my own kids both having more opportunities than I had. My son is 25 and won't graduate until next spring (he took 3 years off from college & worked full time) -- but he is an intern with a congressman this semester -- it was a competitive internship and I'm sure his maturity and experience helped him get the position.
It's hard for a 14 year old to understand the social advantages that are brought about with age -- but the older I get, the more I see the benefits of maturity & experience in all aspects of life.
Last edited on Tue Sep 25th, 2007 07:19 am by leftcoast
|
DesperateDad
Member
| Joined: | Tue Mar 14th, 2006 |
| Location: | California USA |
| Posts: | 829 |
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Mon Sep 24th, 2007 07:27 pm |
|
taking classes at a juco is easy in California -- the state will even pay for them!
In addition to the points raised by leftcoast, another thing to think about is possible merit aid. A friend's son tripled in the AP sciences so he could apply to college after Jr year. He was accpeted at a couple of excellent places, including Pomona (who suggested he wait another year and they would hold his spot), and USC. But, he didn't receive much money from USC, even tho he was a 4.0/240/2400. He completed senior year and then had offers of full rides from several highly selective colleges, and acceptances in combined BA-MD programs. (He was not accepted into a combined program after Jr year.)
|
WestrnMom
Super Moderator
| Joined: | Fri May 26th, 2006 |
| Location: | West Coast, USA |
| Posts: | 1161 |
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Mon Sep 24th, 2007 07:59 pm |
|
Leftcoast is right. (I've been waiting for a chance to say that somewhere!) There is also the maturity factor. A 16 yr old may feel as mature as any other 18 yr old, but attending college when one is 2 years younger than most freshman put additional social pressures on a student that she won't have in high school. I was also a young freshman and if I had it to do over again, I would much rather have gone through high school at the appropriate age, but in those days a lot of students skipped grades in elementary school to alleviate overcrowding and to avoid offering a lot of expensive honors classes.
|
hummingbird
Member
|
Posted: Tue Sep 25th, 2007 12:28 am |
|
Thanks for your replies. Fortunately, no decisions need to be made any time soon. I think her wanting to do this stems from feeling different than her friends. They don't take school very seriously, don't get the kinds of grades she gets, don't care about college yet, and just aren't as academic as my D. My D has also been envious that her brother skipped a grade - so that's certainly a part of it too.
My H had the chance to graduate a year early and got talked out of it by his older sisters. He's always regretted that decision. So there's that, too.
I had not considered that colleges might not want to extend an attractive offer to her, if she graduates early. We'll have to look into that, as well.
|
leftcoast
Member
|
Posted: Tue Sep 25th, 2007 07:39 am |
|
If she really wants to finish early -- consider a gap year -- or consider a year abroad in high school. A foreign exchange experience is a wonderful opportunity -- I am very glad that both my children had that opportunity (even though for my son it was only a month).
Watch out for that competition-with-sibling syndrom -- (brother skipped a grade, now she wants to do it too). I actually had that going big-time in my family -- that's actually how the whole semester abroad idea got started.
Daughter: You never let me do anything. You always let BB do so much more!
Me: He's 5 years older than you, you will get to do the same things at the same age.
Daughter: He got to go to Thailand! You don't let me go anywhere!
Me: He was 17, you are only 15 -- but you can go abroad if you want to, too.
Daughter: I can?
Me: Sure. My only rule is that if you want to go on a foreign exchange, it has to be a country that is not easy to travel to on a tour -- if you just want to visit English & France, I'll book you on one of those tours for teens instead.
Daughter: Well, I don't want to go to Thailand.
Me: How about Russia? It will help you get more fluent in the language.
Daughter: Not if I'm only there for a month.
Me: Well you could go longer -- you could go for a semester or a year.
Daughter: A semester?! You would let me go that long???
Me: Sure.
Daughter: Wow! That would be cool. Just wait until BB hears about this!
So with my d. it has always been about one-upmanship. She loves to call her brother and brag about famous profs or visitors to her college campus -- today was a great day in sibling rivalry. My son started his first day on his congressional internship -- but d. went to hear Ahmadinejad speak on the Columbia campus, an even more newsworthy event and thus in her mind a triumph.
My d's experiences are wonderful, but the sibling rivalry part is really not the best of motives. Fortunately the age difference is enough that my son views it all with a sense of detached amusement.
Last edited on Tue Sep 25th, 2007 08:43 pm by leftcoast
|
hummingbird
Member
|
Posted: Tue Sep 25th, 2007 02:39 pm |
|
Re: foreign exchange: I wonder if she could do that her senior year, assuming she has all of her required coursework finished, perhaps with the exception of Capstone. She could put together her Capstone project wherever she is - and then come home and present it to the school in May (which is when they do it). And then graduate with everyone else. That might be a good compromise.
My younger sister went to Japan for a year, her Junior year. She came back 50 lbs heavier (no kidding!) and to a new school because our HS shut its doors right after I graduated. She had a very rough Senior year and fell in with the wrong crowd because she had no friends at the new school, was overweight, and was feeling lost. It was a really hard time for her. I was married already and had moved away, so she didn't even have big sister around.
For a lot of reasons, I like the idea of study abroad in college better than in high school. The student is older and more independent in college; maybe better equipped to deal with the new culture.
|
mmaah
Member
| Joined: | Mon Mar 27th, 2006 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 57 |
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Tue Sep 25th, 2007 03:38 pm |
|
I think many good LACs support the admit-deferred entry because they recognize the advantages a year gives in terms of social maturity. So if she doesn't go with the abroad plans, I'd keep that option in play if she is admitted as a junior. Especially if she is considering some of the schools with combined programs or med school links (like Knox), you want her to have some breathing room built in. I know some kids who sprinted for selective schools and are now on the fast track into grad school. They seem a little wistful about where they are going to fit in the road not taken because the pace picks up and they worry about falling back in the pack.. (too many metaphors in there...need more coffee...)
|
WestrnMom
Super Moderator
| Joined: | Fri May 26th, 2006 |
| Location: | West Coast, USA |
| Posts: | 1161 |
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Tue Sep 25th, 2007 06:34 pm |
|
Hummingbird, she needs new friends. If it's too difficult to find a new crowd within her high school, can she meet other, more studious friends through an EC? Leftcoast is right about not giving in to sibling rivalry. It won't go away. Rather than buying into it, deflect it. Every child is different and what works for one won't be exactly the same for another.
|
leftcoast
Member
|
Posted: Tue Sep 25th, 2007 08:56 pm |
|
I do think a senior year or gap year foreign exchange is preferable to a junior year exchange, because of the adjustment issues with the final year of high school. My d's friendship with her best friend since middle school fell apart as soon as she got back -- there is just too much of a change. We briefly hosted a Thai student who had spent a year attending school in the US (mostly in southern Cal, we were just her "vacation" hosts so she could visit San Francisco) -- and she still had a year of high school to complete in Bangkok and was miserable that last year.
But my d is very stubborn - I also thought that for purposes of gaining fluency, a year is better than a semester -- but my d. not only had a very set idea of what she wanted, she even chose the exchange outfit by the dates she wanted to depart and return. My son had been an AFS'er, but my d. went with YFU because she liked their scheduling better.
And yes, my d. did return from Russia somewhat zoftig, to the consternation of her dance teacher. Host moms in foreign countries really like to feed their charges, and depending on choice of cuisine the food can be hard to resist. The first thing my son did when he got back from Thailand was insist that I buy a rice cooker -- he had stayed with a dirt-poor family without even benefit of western-style plumbing, and he simply was awed by the fact that they had TWO rice cookers and (apparently) a limitless supply of cooked rice to offer him. At least the Thai food was really healthy -- lots of intriguing new fruits and veggies to sample. Russian cuisine is full of all that artery-clogging comfort food that my daughter loves - rich, fat-laden & sweet. So my d. was happy, but she did pile on a few pounds.
---
If a foreign exchange is too expensive/ too scary/ too far --- consider an gap year with Americorps. My son managed to combine a half-time job with Americorps last year with attending college full time (but he's older, age 23) -- but definitely reported back very positive experiences from Americorps.
When I spoke of social maturity I am not just referring to socializing -- I am also referring to all other aspects of navigating an adult world. Workplace experience really is valuable in that respect -- there is a level of confidence and poise the kids pick up over time. That's what I think I was missing when I was 17 and looking for a summer job and my college classmates were 19; or when I was a 22 year old law student interviewing and my classmates were 24 on up. I just didn't have that aura of trustworthiness and readiness to take on greater responsibility that my slightly older peers had gained.
Last edited on Tue Sep 25th, 2007 09:04 pm by leftcoast
|
mathmom
Member
| Joined: | Fri Apr 14th, 2006 |
| Location: | USA |
| Posts: | 260 |
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Wed Sep 26th, 2007 03:06 am |
|
Let me add myself to the chorus recommending a gap year should your daughter decide to graduate early. I graduated high school at 16, but spent a year with a French family before attending college. I never felt like I missed out on childhood, but the year in France was good for me in all sorts of ways. I'd spent a good part of my childhood overseas in Africa, but living in a different culture is a very different thing than living with an American family in a foreign country. It probably made me less of a nerd than I otherwise would have been, interestingly enough.
|
jocelynDAD
Member
|
Posted: Wed Sep 26th, 2007 07:24 am |
|
You are a long time old, don't be in a rush to get there.
Take time to smell the flowers
If being old was so great, why do the old wish they were young again?
I could go on with the bromides, but the fact is that your daughter is very young and while it might sound alluring, she should be advised to do her best and find as much interest in the activities appropriate with her age.
Regardless of how mature she (or you) might think she is, life has a way of coming at you fast and furious enough without racing headfirst into it.
Only my opinion, hope she and you make the best decisions for her future.
|
mmaah
Member
| Joined: | Mon Mar 27th, 2006 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 57 |
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Fri Sep 28th, 2007 01:54 pm |
|
One more voice here for the virtues of gap year learning about just managing everyday life as an adult before taking on collegiate responsibilities. In the process of being away and on his own my son also mastered some at-home skills that have proved invaluable: finding your way around on your own in a strange place, figuring out in another language what to do when the ATM doesn't work and you can't call a parent, keeping track of luggage, laundry and schedules. He went to college as an organized, self-reliant young man and I did not have to stress about those kinds of basics. (Believe me, there were many I'd tried to teach and failed when he was still at home--so it wasn't trying, it was readiness on his part).
|
Current time is 06:56 am | Page: 1 2   |
|
|
|
|
