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HImom
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Posted: Mon Mar 27th, 2006 11:01 pm |
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Until recently, I always thought students had to come up with their own funds to go to graduate school. While this is stipp mostly true for most professional schools like medicine & law, I have learend that many grad schools offer funding to promising grad students via research opportunities or teaching assistancships or fellowships or grants.
Just today, I heard of one young lady who turned down Stanford for her master's in Engineering with no funding to accept Duke with a teaching assistantship where she will get her masters in 1.5 years.
Just trying to think ahead, as I believe many of our kids will want to get advanced degrees--grad and/or professional schools & many of us are barely able to get the money for undergrad much less figure out how to fund grad school too!
HImom
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overeducated
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Posted: Tue Mar 28th, 2006 04:47 am |
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A friend's son was recently awarded decent merit $$ to one law school while also being accepted to several more selective schools without $$. So I am questioning the "no $$ for professional school" common wisdom.
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HImom
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Posted: Tue Mar 28th, 2006 05:38 am |
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| Come to think of it, you're right. My niece was offered good merit aid at Willammette (she never applied & didn't request any FAid). She turned them down & they offered her MORE money, but she still turned them down & went to local state U because she wants to practice law in HI. I've also read of some folks getting a full ride to pharmacy school & some aid for the combined BS/MD programs, so I guess no "hard & fast" rules. Generally, it is tougher to get merit aid for professional schools tho.
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mackinaw
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Posted: Tue Mar 28th, 2006 05:15 pm |
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If you're thinking of PhD programs, then it is normal for students to get full funding for 4 to 6 years, from a combination of teaching assistantships, research assistantships, and fellowships (whether from the given college or from an external source).
My advice to my son was this: "If you're any good, you'll get full funding for doctoral studies." Implication: if you don't get full funding from a good program, you probably shouldn't be looking for a PhD in that subject.
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Capt. Jack Sparrow
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Posted: Wed Mar 29th, 2006 04:38 pm |
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I'd be interested in knowing what fellowships and the like their might be for Law Students.
And if someone doing a combined Law/Master's program might get any funding for the Master's portion (one year).
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CaneMom
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Posted: Wed Mar 29th, 2006 09:13 pm |
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Implication: if you don't get full funding from a good program, you probably shouldn't be looking for a PhD in that subject.
As you know wp, CaneBoy is taking the MCAT, but can't really decide between Med school or PhD curriculum yet. (It is going to obviously hinge on those scores), but he (and I consequently) are starting to do a little research into the Phd realm. Just how does one go about picking the right Phd program? From the looks of it, his GPA will put him in pretty much anywhere, including a few of the ivy's (WOW!). He is sssoooo excited about doing his summer research (I've never seen him so excited!) but just how does he know which programs to apply to? Is this like under-grad in that he should apply to safety's, match's and reaches? And do you take into consideration stipends, fellowships, etc., when starting to narrow down your choices?
CM
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mackinaw
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Posted: Wed Mar 29th, 2006 09:45 pm |
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CM, first of all I imagine CB will have to take the GRE if he applies to PhD programs, though conceivably they would accept an MCAT. I don't know enough about the latter to say how much, if any, overlap in content there might be, for example in getting a quantitative score. The GRE's are pretty much a glorified SAT, though taken on-line, not with pencil-scorsheet.
A major difference between an MD and PhD is that the latter focuses mainly on research (and teaching, which may be teaching in part in a med school!), while the former focuses mainly on working with patients (though they could also be in research in the lab or in experimental trials or in diagnosis and treatment). But there are many many types of cross-over, in which MD's conduct research, and PhD's help in developing medicines, devices, treatments, behavioral programs (such as nutrition, dietetics, and exercise) and so on -- and both may be involved in experimental or lab-based work.
I think CB will have to look into the types of programs that would likely train him in the types of research he's interested in. It would be a good idea, I think, for him to contact one or two people who are mainly doing medical research, to get some suggestions for fields, but really I imagine there is a very wide range of possibilities from physiology to genetics to microbiology/molecular biology to biochemistry, to biomechanics, to neurobiology, to environmental toxicology, etc. I have a hunch that Shennie's hubby is in one of these fields, so you might send a PM to her. There are a lot of cross-over research fields involved in health and medicine, including not only the fields I mentioned but also, say, psychology (psychologists at my university cooperate with biologists in a neurobiology research center, for example).
If CB has a particular interest, this may help him make some choices. What aspects of health or medicine excite him? I know a couple of people who are physiologists, for example, one who seems to specialize in kidneys, and whose research and teaching involves collaborative work with MD's as well as with faculty in a variety of other departments and schools; and another is involved in the study of of human nutrition (including diet and exercise) and cooperates with other faculty in food-science as well as in the med school.
I hope we might have some "experts" on these issues and how to make the choices somewhere on this board.
Last edited on Wed Mar 29th, 2006 10:04 pm by mackinaw
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CaneMom
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Posted: Wed Mar 29th, 2006 10:05 pm |
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What aspects of health or medicine excite him?
His summer research is with his Parisitology professor and is in conjunction with infectious disease. The main reason he is taking the MCAT is that his advisor told him to do so. She was pretty adament he take it, and told him a great score and he should apply to combined MD/PhD programs. He is quite leery of what kind of scores he will get, (thinks he can do much better on GRE) so is planning on taking it as well. He admits that working with patients as an MD isn't what he really wants to do; it's all about the research with him. But it seems that every single Grad school he's looking at pretty much have a grad program which has Microbio and/or Molecular Biology. I'm assuming, (and this is a big assumption) that he will be looking at schools which not only have the dual degree, but also a grad program in infectious disease therefore.....
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overeducated
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Posted: Fri Apr 7th, 2006 03:26 am |
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| Capt Jack, the above mentioned friend's S received a decent amount (maybe half? I forget) to USF Law School while being admitted without $$ to Boalt, Hastings and some others. Not sure if that answers your qx.
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Capt. Jack Sparrow
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Posted: Fri Apr 7th, 2006 04:48 am |
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Unfortunately, it answers my question in a negative sort of way. But I may be putting Descartes before the horse...need to see which direction D wants to go. If Law is part of it, I think she'll do it if and only if it's the context of a Top 14 school...which for her reasons, is actually a reasonable take.
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WestrnMom
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Posted: Wed Jun 21st, 2006 04:01 am |
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I had full funding for graduate school at a very expensive, competitive university. This was some years ago, so it may have changed. Everything else about college has changed since then...
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Capt. Jack Sparrow
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Posted: Wed Jun 21st, 2006 04:49 am |
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My understanding...and I'd be very happy to be corrected...is that it's a lot easier to get funding for an academic graduate degree than a professional one.
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pencilnpaper
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Posted: Wed Jun 21st, 2006 12:55 pm |
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Another word of advice I overheard but would like to verify:
At the end of undergraduate school (especially in the sciences), apply directly for PhD programs. I had always assumed you would apply for a Masters, then go on for a PhD after that. However, I was told it is typically better to apply directly for the PhD, since there is more funding available. You achieve the Masters along the way. Can anyone else confirm that experience?
Second Question: Is Architecture now considered a "professional" degree for aid purposes, similar to law or medicine -- or is financial aid available for the Master programs?
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DesperateDad
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Posted: Wed Jun 21st, 2006 02:22 pm |
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Cap'n Jack:
In the main, you are correct. The "professional" schools, such as Law, Med, Dental, PhamD, and B-schools, rarely come free. Most other grad programs offer teaching assistantships and/or research to offset the tuition and room and board.
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mackinaw
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Posted: Wed Jun 21st, 2006 04:05 pm |
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pencilnpaper wrote: Another word of advice I overheard but would like to verify:
At the end of undergraduate school (especially in the sciences), apply directly for PhD programs. I had always assumed you would apply for a Masters, then go on for a PhD after that. However, I was told it is typically better to apply directly for the PhD, since there is more funding available. You achieve the Masters along the way. Can anyone else confirm that experience?
That is essentially true of PhD programs in major disciplines/subjects. Students apply to the PhD program, and may earn a masters on the way (sometimes with a "thesis" or equivalent research paper, and sometimes just with completion of certain courses and total credit hours). Sometimes students who begin in a PhD program end up with a "terminal masters" if they either drop out of the program or fail their comprehensive exams or prelim exams and thus do not continue to the dissertation and doctoral degree. The masters diploma looks the same but has different consequences for whether one finishes the doctorate.
Sometimes there are "professional" knock-offs or more meaningful professional degrees in the same or similar subjects as doctoral degrees. For example, one can get a Masters in Public Administration (MPA) or Public Policy (MPP) as a professional degree, but this is generally not viewed as a stepping stone for earning a PhD in political science. Someone interested in a PhD in political science would get an MA "on the way" as described in the first paragraph. I should add, however, that if you are interested in a professional degree at a masters level (e.g., MPA, MSW (social work), MPH (public health), etc.) there may be some financial aid for such programs.
I might add that financial aid at the graduate level is rarely "need based" for PhD programs. Students are assumed to be financially independent, and parental income or wealth has no bearing on the level of fellowship or assistantship support that a program offers. OTOH, for some professional programs in which students may get some aid from the school (e.g., law), parents may well be expected by the school to contribute to the costs for students receiving funding from the school.
Last edited on Wed Jun 21st, 2006 04:15 pm by mackinaw
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DesperateDad
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Posted: Wed Jun 21st, 2006 04:11 pm |
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| a good friend is a faculty member at UCLA, and he readily admits that they accept a lot of candidates for thier PhD progrm (in his department) with the PLANNED rationale that most will drop out after a masters. He said they do this since they need the TAs for undergrad classes.
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Capt. Jack Sparrow
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Posted: Wed Jun 21st, 2006 06:00 pm |
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Mackinaw, yeah, that's what I've heard, too: if your student is going for a Ph.D., the parents are off the hook. But if the target is Law or Medicine, you're on the hook until the student is age 25.
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MaizeBlue
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Posted: Sat Jun 24th, 2006 08:50 pm |
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| Capt. Jack: Some law schools consider a 22 year old as independent from parents. In particular, our S attended UWisconsin Law School immediately upon graduation from UMich. They required that he file his own FAFSA (no CSS Profile). Nothing was expected from us - no FAFSA, no tax returns, nada. However, financial need for professional schools is met by a combination of loans, the maximum subsidized (Perkins, Stafford) and maximum unsubsidized (Stafford, etc.), as well as work-study. He lost his Perkins after his 1L summer when he saved his earnings from a fairly nice job. For law schools just a few notches down the USNWR list, he was offered some merit aid.
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CarolynLawrence
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Posted: Mon Jul 3rd, 2006 04:12 pm |
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Here's an interesting study, conducted by the Department of Education, on how graduate students (to doctoral level) finance their educations. It separates out some of the different degree programs (i.e., MBA, education masters, etc.) and shows major funding sources.
http://nces.ed.gov/pubs2006/2006185a.pdf
I do want to point out that statements made by folks above about financial independence for graduate school are incorrect according to this report. ALL graduate students, whether they're pursuing a master's degree, a doctoral degree or a first professional degree (i.e., law, medicine, etc.) are considered financially independent of their parents regardless of their ages, and financial aid is therefore based upon their income/savings. (See page 10 of the main report where this is clearly stated.) There is NO difference in this based on type of degree. Now, whether this is true in practice is another issue, but according to the U.S. Department of Education, thems the rules.
Last edited on Mon Jul 3rd, 2006 04:23 pm by CarolynLawrence
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WestrnMom
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Posted: Mon Jul 3rd, 2006 06:52 pm |
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That is discouraging news for those pursuing an MFA which is a terminal degree. There are no Ph.D.s given in some areas of the arts. The amounts for MAs is less than Ph.D.s and much less than the professional degrees.
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