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WestrnMom
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| Joined: | Fri May 26th, 2006 |
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Posted: Sun Sep 3rd, 2006 08:09 pm |
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leftcoast, we tried that strategy (big, small, private, public) but still found that seeing a particular campus with students on it made a big difference. We still have many more to visit locally but we did get to all the out of town schools. One was so far off from what the literature said I'm very glad we went. Also, hearing from the ad com gave us a different impression of another school, as they tend to throw out tidbits you can't get from the mailers.
I found out that two schools on S's list are probably moving to triple rooms, which is another consideration. Also, by visiting one town we found out that it rains constantly there during the winter, which is something we didn't know as we visited when it was hot and sunny.
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jocelynDAD
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Posted: Sat Sep 9th, 2006 06:30 pm |
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Careful, careful, careful, are the three words of advise that I would give parents when their child is looking at colleges. Like the Real Estate mandra, careful is what is your role as to the Social Scene.
Whatever your opinions, IMO you must allow her child's assessment of the other students and the social scene to govern.
Now Security, outside environment, costs and academic reputation/offerings are all very legitimate items to review with your child, but social scene is IMO personal and what we might like is rather irrelevant. It truly is the child's view that counts.
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CarolynLawrence
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| Joined: | Sun Mar 5th, 2006 |
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Posted: Sat Sep 9th, 2006 07:07 pm |
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alanarch wrote: Carolyn, you might want to ask her now whether she thinks that is still a valid way to judge a school.
Actually, I already know the answer to that: yes. One of the things she liked about Beloit when she originally visited is that when we had lunch in the dining hall, no one looked twice at her, and several students introduced themselves, sat down, and started chatting away with her. She actually cut a few schools for her list because she felt the kids in the dining hall had "stared" at her (note: I did not notice this, but she apparently has a different radar system). Now that she is on campus she has told me several times that meeting people is really easy: she just goes into the dining hall and if she doesn't see anyone she knows, she introduces herself, sits down, and starts chatting away...
However, I absolutely positively agree with what JocelynDad said about letting your child be the one who evaluates whether the social scene is a fit. This really is critical because they are the ones who will be living there! And, some kids might not feel comfortable admitting some of the things they're looking for to parents, or the parent's idea of a "social fit" might differ from the child's. For instance, I think *most* parents are concerned about drinking and use of illegal substances, but this might not matter in the same way to the student.
My daughter is a tea-totaller. When we first started looking at colleges, I kept recommending schools that had officially dry campuses because I thought that would be the "best fit" for her. She had other ideas, however. She didn't care if there was drinking or other types of partying going on as long as (1) there would be enough activities that didn't revolve around drinking to keep her busy (2) other people would also be participating in those activities so she'd have friends to hang with and (3) people would accept her preferences, just as she tolerates the partying of others, so she could still do things like go to parties and not be pressured to do things she didn't want and (4) the people were quirky and kind of off-beat just like her.
When she did college visits, she always asked the students she met questions about these sorts of things, and she ruled out a few colleges that she liked otherwise when she didn't get the answers she wanted. (For example, at one school, the tour guide said people like her usually lived in the sub-free dorm, and that "the sub-free dorm people pretty much keep to themselves." ) When she went for her second visit and overnight at Beloit she specifically asked admissions to assign her to a host who "wasn't a partier" and they complied. The two girls she stayed with didn't drink, didn't do drugs, and reassured her that it wasn't a problem. Not only that, but they introduced her to their broader group of friends, who daughter thought were pretty cool people.
So, now she's been there three weeks. Has what she expected held true? Absolutely, she says. She picked the sub-free dorm (mainly because that was her best chance of getting a single) but hasn't found that living there is limits her social interactions with the rest of campus. She says, yep, there's a whole lot of partying going on, especially among freshmen. But, she's found a great group of friends who aren't partiers and is having a great time doing things like Swing Dancing, going bowling, etc. Best of all, she says that when she does go to parties where alcohol and other substances are present, no one thinks twice or pressures her if she says "no thanks" and, in fact, several people have said, "Hey, that's cool." So, she is a happy camper.
Again, my instinct was to say "pick a campus where there is very little partying" but her's was to pick a campus where, yes, there's partying, but there's also plenty of else to do and no one judges her negatively for saying no. So, as JocelynDad says, leave the social fit to your kids. Sometimes they know what they can handle better than we do.
Last edited on Sat Sep 9th, 2006 07:09 pm by CarolynLawrence
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WestrnMom
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| Joined: | Fri May 26th, 2006 |
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Posted: Sat Sep 9th, 2006 09:10 pm |
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I've learned with my children that just as we have a parental radar for things important to us, they have one for the areas that matter most to them.
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alanarch
Member
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Posted: Sun Sep 10th, 2006 02:06 am |
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| I absolutely agree with JocelynDAD. His social life is none of my business. If I did not trust him enough, I would not let go away to school. I just assume that there will be drinking and drugs everywhere. I am sure he will experiment but I trust that he will learn how to deal with it even if he makes a few mistakes along the way. That is why I feel that the college experience is a once in a lifetime opportunity to, relatively safely, try out many aspects of life that later on will be much more complicated and much less safe. Mostly it comes down to trust.
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DesperateDad
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| Joined: | Tue Mar 14th, 2006 |
| Location: | California USA |
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Posted: Sun Sep 10th, 2006 03:22 am |
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disagree with Alan and J-Dad.
To further J-Dad's analogy: real estate is location, location, location. If spending $200k, location (social scene) can be important. Why send a free-sider to Reed) or Swat or Oberlin to study Econ? [IMO, the social scene can be symbolic of the academic scene.]
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alanarch
Member
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Posted: Sun Sep 10th, 2006 04:36 am |
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Desparatedad, you seem to be assuming that these colleges have extremes of social lives where some students might be incompatible. Also, I don't think most students come in with a major let alone understand the subtle distinctions that the school might have in any given major. Am I reading you correctly? I think all a parent can do is to make suggestions along the line of your reasoning and leave the decision up to him. In my case, the schools that he is considering are all relatively similar (Northeast LACs, at this point). Yes, each campus has a personality but I will lleave up to him to make the final decision. Again, I feel it is a matter of trust.
At this point, my major concern is not pushing anything too far as he has become extremely sensitive about our pushing the college stuff. By treading very gingerly, I feel that we are getting the desired results. He is working on his essays. He is practicing for some potential interviews in the coming weeks. We have actually been planning out a relative aggressive schedule for the next two months about visiting colleges and the many visiting adcoms coming to his school and in the area. (we live in NYC). I would do very little to stress out that relationship. If we can't talk, then the process is doomed to failure.
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DesperateDad
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| Joined: | Tue Mar 14th, 2006 |
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Posted: Sun Sep 10th, 2006 12:21 pm |
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Sorry, Alan, I did not mean to direct my post directly at your personal situation. It was more generic, in nature, and, with the prospect of $200k over four years, I do believe that we can have input by pointing out the marketing hype.
And, yes, I do beleive that colleges can have extremes in the social arena, which makes them not a good fit for some (many?) kids. There is a reason that kids transfer each and every year. This week, I met a a kid on campus that spent a year at Columbia and hated it -- transferred to Dartmouth. I just shook my head in amazement -- those schools couldn't be more different, socially and academically. I was thinking to myself: why would a kid with such a personality even be attracted to Columbia in the first place? Other extremes: the academies, and religious schools, all of which provide and excellent education for kids who want that experience. Other schools have a high greek-football weekend environment -- fun for many, but it can be boring if its not a kid's thing. Two LACs may appear similar, but thier campus culture can be dissimilar.
btw: "Inteview practice" wow, I salute your son for being way ahead of the game. When we went thru this process last year it seemed like my S was the only kid in town working on a Nov 1 EA/ED deadline (at least according to him - LOL). But, however, he saw the light when all his friends were skipping classes the last few days of Nov to finish thier UC apps and he was done! It was even better when his friends were buried the last week of Dec finalizing thier apps, when S had his early acceptance and was relaxing.
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jocelynDAD
Member
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Posted: Sun Sep 10th, 2006 03:04 pm |
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DDad: You have match two very different items. $200,000 and the Social Scene.
Yes, college is expensive - at one time I had two sons in Lafayette and one in Washington University in St Louis, when one Lafayette graduated, my D1 started at Denison.
Three very different schools for 4 very different children.
The issue I addressed was the Social Scene not the cost to the parents. If you are buying a car or a house, cost is paramount.
If costs are paramount to you that is your privilege, however in the area of Social Scene, IMO cost is not the criteria - what is important is the child's views and needs and wishes for his/her association with fellow students for the next four years.
What my opinion of these students or your opinion of the potential fellow students is does not or should not count at all.
Neither you nor I will be attending the college/university, our children will or are.
True many children transfer, perhaps it is because they were influenced to attend a school that suited their parents wishes/wants/etc and therefore they were unhappy and unsuited for that school.
I was stationed at the USAF Academy on the Dean of Faculty's staff as a Library clerk.
The summer of 1964 saw a group of young men come to the Academy, there was about 1,040+ in this group. Within the first 4 days, while they were being processed on to the campus (and before they were turned over to the Cadets for Beast Barracks), they were walked around (marching was left to B. Barracks) by members of the USAFA Band, as unmilitary a group of military persons imaginable). In those 4 days, approximately 40 young men quit.
These young men were told to wait in the library (next door to the Dean of Faculty's offices) and so myself and other staff members were 'put in charge' of these unhappy persons. Invariably the complaint these young men had was their parents or father wanted them to come to the Academy, but they wanted to go to XXX or YYY school and did not want a career in the military.
Obviously, these young men were unable or unwilling to challenge their parent(s) and so took the easy (actually the hard) path of waiting until they were able to say no and someone would listen.
So again I offer this opinion, the child must thrive and survive the next four years at the college/university. Their opinions/needs/wants as articulated by them should govern the selection of the Social Scene.
Last edited on Sun Sep 10th, 2006 03:08 pm by jocelynDAD
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CarolynLawrence
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Posted: Sun Sep 10th, 2006 07:36 pm |
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DD, My daughter told me a funny story yesterday. There is a girl on her floor in the dorm who is from a rural community in Southern Illinois. She is very conservative and religious. She has gone home every weekend so far, but this weekend my daughter and her other friends convinced her to stay because there was going to be a Folk music festival on campus. My daughter said that at one point, as the second folk band climbed the stage, her friend looked around at her fellow Beloiters in the audience and said in total shock, "I just realized something - Beloit is kind of a hippie school, isn't it?" My daughter was still chuckling over this when she told me the story, and wondering how anyone could visit Beloit several times and not come away sensing that it isn't exactly mainstreet USA. 
I had a girl last week contact me for feedback on her college list. She said her *favorite* schools were Rhodes College, Vanderbilt, Oberlin and Reed. Obviously, she knew absolutely NOTHING about the social scene at any of these schools because Rhodes & Vandy are polar opposites in terms of campus culture from Reed & Oberlin. Yet, they were all her "favorites."
I do think that it is very easy for kids to miss the essential differences between schools. Sometimes I shudder to think how often it occurs. Maybe the parent's role is to point out the differences, and then, like JD suggests, step back and let the kid figure out which "personality" is the best match.
Last edited on Sun Sep 10th, 2006 07:37 pm by CarolynLawrence
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leftcoast
Member
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Posted: Mon Sep 11th, 2006 12:22 am |
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Carolyn, do keep in mind that some kids are very flexible in terms of "fit" and social scene. My kids have some very different circles of friends that they move between. I think they both ended up feeling that they were uncomfortable without a certain level of diversity, but I am sure that there are many students who might do quite well in campuses that seemed to be very different from one another in terms of campus culture. It just takes a kid who is not that strongly tied to their own comfort zone or preferences -- kind of like your daughter being comfortable socializing with kids who drink, even though her personal preference is substance free. I do agree that kids need to at least be made aware of the dominant social milieu and campus culture -- but hey... the world is a complex place. I think a small, isolated LAC can be kind of tricky.... but the larger the college and/or more urban the environment, the more likely it is that there will be a variety of different "types" of students and outlooks.
Anyway, I wouldn't assume that the kid who is looking at both Oberlin and Vandy is out of her mind -- I'd just dig a little deeper into the reasons. Keep in mind that colleges like Vandy, Rhodes, Reed & Oberlin are full of kids whose top choice was a more prestigious college with a very different ambience.
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WestrnMom
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Posted: Mon Sep 11th, 2006 01:29 am |
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S just took a school off the radar because he didn't like the "feel" of it from talking to other people about it. You never know just what it is they are going to connect with and what will turn them off. Another school we visited that was off the radar is now back under consideration after two people who know his personality said the things he didn't like about it on a visit are not necessarily what you will have to contend with as as student. Although school was in session, the campus was too empty that day to get a real feeling for the social climate.
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