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joy
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| Joined: | Fri Feb 23rd, 2007 |
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Posted: Tue Feb 27th, 2007 03:58 am |
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I have been so impressed with how you all find all these interesting statistics to consider when researching colleges. I'm becoming well acquainted with the college board search site, and have started looking at the Common Data sets for a few schools. Here are 2 questions that I haven't figured out how to research:
1) How many classes are taught by TAs?
This is on the Princeton Review site for each school but the answer seems to be a code maybe?? I can't find the part of the site where the code is explained! I know it's there but that site has a few dead-ends that I keep getting stuck in. Is there a better way to get this info?
2) How easy is it to complete a double major with either Engineering or Biology and something like Spanish?
I know at many schools this would be either very difficult or prohibited. I'm guessing that if the percentage of people who finish in 4 years is low it might also be hard to complete a double major, but maybe there's a way to learn this more directly?
I figure several of you have probably already found creative ways to find this information.
Thanks!
Joy
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jocelynDAD
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Posted: Tue Feb 27th, 2007 07:00 am |
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First things first, what schools are your child interested in considering?
Colleges with 2 to 4,000 students, colleges with 2,000 or less?
Universities with over 30,000 students?
If you are looking at Liberal Arts colleges, or Engineering universities, or just a large university, your questions are either answered, could be answered or are unanswerable.
Now what does that goo doo mean?
LAC with under 3,000 students almost never have a TA teaching anything. Lac's usually are quite easy in allowing and encouraging two majors, or a major and a language minor.
Universities tend to have some, many or who knows how many TA's teaching sections where the class is large or very large. But, this varies with the major and the various course selections. The first year tends to have many and it tends to get less in the subsequent years, but but it does depend on the school inside the university and the number of students following that major(s).
Schools that are larger than 3 to 4,000 but smaller than 15,000 have many variances and you have to ask that school thiese questions directly and follow up at the major level with the faculty in that major.
Besides all that, any statistics that you might find, could be very misleading. Say the university days only 15%^ of their classes are taught by TA's.
Great, right, but it turns out that in your chiuld's major, half of all classes are taught (essentially) by TA's (many with English as a second language).
Remember, figures lie and liars figure!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! So much IMO for statistics.
Taking two majors at a university might on first blush seem easier than at a small college, but not so, the need to take the specialized classes at the 200, 300, 400 levels in two different majors (and quite possibly two different colleges inside the university ) can be very difficult from availability and scheduling standpoints.
Nothing beats directly asking the individual college/university the questions, either thru the site or when visiting. 
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CarolynLawrence
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| Joined: | Sun Mar 5th, 2006 |
| Location: | USA |
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Posted: Tue Feb 27th, 2007 02:53 pm |
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Great answer, JD.
I'd also add that universities that use TAs often list them on department websites as part of the faculty list. They may be called "graduate asisstants." While some graduate students won't be teaching, of course, when you see a department faculty list that has 10 full professors and 15 "graduate assistants" you can probably assume that TAs are relied upon heavily in that department to support undergraduate teaching.
However, all TAs are not necessarily bad, so you need to dig a little deeper to find out how they are actually being used. In the sciences, for instance, it is very common for TAs to supervise labs while "regular" faculty do the main lectures. Or, the TAs lead smaller discussion classes after a larger lecture. That is different than a school where graduate assistants are doing more of the teaching. So, look beyond the numbers as well.
Since you mentioned Spanish, you may also want to keep your eyes open or ask about the reliance on "adjunct" and part-time lecturers/teachers in the languages. I have noticed that some university language departments have an impressively long faculty list, until you look closely at the titles and realize they really only have two or three full time faculty with Phd's, the rest are part-time "adjuncts" with masters. As with TAs, there is nothing inherently wrong with adjuncts, but I would tend to prefer a department that doesn't rely on them over one that does.
You also want to check on the availability of classes. Don't be impressed with the catalog listings that may show 50+ courses as being offered in the department. You want to know how many actual courses in the department are typically offered each semester and how hard it is to get into them. Many schools have their course schedules online, especially towards the end of semesters (do a search on the website, or look under registrar), and often they indicate both the number of course sections, number of seats, number enrolled, and whether classes are filled. This is all useful information because it can give you a sense of whether your kid will be able to get into the classes he/she needs for graduation.
Of course, as JD suggests, the best "research" is asking lots of direct questions, especially of current students in the department. But, it's also a good idea to look at the graduation/course distribution requirements of the institution overall, see which other departments you'll need to take classes in, and doing a bit of research on those.
You should also check out the general education requirements/distribution requirements for graduation if double majoring is being considered. A school with heavy GE requirements can make it more difficult to double major in some cases. And, of course, there is always the possibilty of minoring in a second subject instead of double-majoring. (But do check out the availability of minors in subjects as well). At my daughter's college, nearly everyone either double majors or does a major and a minor, but graduation requirements are fairly flexible (basically, two courses in the three different divisions). At a school like UChicago or Columbia, where there are greater requirements, double majoring might be harder.
One other thought: Language majors are usually advised to do some sort of study abroad in order to perfect their fluency. Unfortunately, studying abroad in the sciences and/or engineering can sometimes be tricky, with some schools offering ver limited study abroad opportunities for engineering/science majors. Therefore, a student interested in double majoring in a language and science/engineering might need to be very careful about planning their four-year academic schedule in order to graduate on time. So, that's probably another question to ask and consider.
Engineering curriculum is pretty "set" from institution to institution in terms of number of credits required, and specific courses required. The difficulty/ease of double majoring at any particular school will probably depend on the academic intensity of the program itself because that is usually the biggest difference when it comes to engineering programs. At one school, the workload may be light enough to make double majoring possible, at another the workload in engineering may make double majoring difficult. So, you want to ask lots of questions about the expectations and time requirements of the engineering program when you're looking at the double majoring issue (and, of course, some schools specializing in engineering may have limited liberal arts majors to double major in!)
If you're looking at engineering programs, two good resources are: The American Board of Engineering Training (ABET), the accrediting agency for engineering programs (http://www.abet.org) where you can learn a bit about what courses are required for specific engineering programs to be accredited, and the more student-friendly Try Engineering site, (http://www.tryengineering.org) which has a very useful searchable database and tons of information for students interested in engineering.
I would say the issue of double majoring would possibly not be as difficult for a "pure" science like Biology, but, again, it depends quite a bit on the academic intensity and requirements of each school.
Last edited on Tue Feb 27th, 2007 03:09 pm by CarolynLawrence
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joy
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| Joined: | Fri Feb 23rd, 2007 |
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Posted: Tue Feb 27th, 2007 04:22 pm |
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Thank you both for your wise responses.
We are in the very preliminary stages of figuring out what type of school would be a match. We've not visited schools yet (d is a soph.) but we did go to my husband's reunion at Swarthmore last June and to an admissions talk there for all age of high school students. I was so impressed with the fact that many of their engineering majors are double majors. I guess my bias is towards a LAC where there are no TAs and an actual encouragement of double majors and also study abroad.
Many of the top students at d's high school (in CA) go to UC Berkeley and a few to Stanford. I guess I just assume that at Berkeley many classes would be taught by TAs and it would be much more difficult to double major but I don't want to make judgements without getting the facts. I don't know about Stanford.
I'm just trying to figure out if there are internet resources available to help me until my d is ready to start visiting schools. I will follow your suggestion of looking at the department web-sites at some schools.
I realize that these 3 schools are very very different in every way (except that getting in would be a total crap-shoot at any one of them!) We obviously need a much longer and more balanced list to start with.
Thanks again
Joy
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DesperateDad
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| Joined: | Tue Mar 14th, 2006 |
| Location: | California USA |
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Posted: Tue Feb 27th, 2007 05:50 pm |
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joy:
the engineering curriculums at top Unis like Cal & UCLA essentially preclude many electives, so a double major is nearly impossible unless its an engineering double. (EECS is probably the most difficult major at Berkeley if one wants to graduate in four years.) btw, don't confuse TAs or the absence thereof wrt to double majoring - it's the curriculum design that matters.
SWAT's engineering Department is unique in that it only requires 12 classes for a BSE. But, I gather that their degree is more designed for students going on to graduate work, than directly to the work force which they would do with a Engr degree from Engr College.
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CarolynLawrence
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| Joined: | Sun Mar 5th, 2006 |
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Posted: Tue Feb 27th, 2007 11:41 pm |
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Exactly right DD. You said it much more eloquently and succinctly than my rambling post. 
Yes, Joy, start by figuring out what would suit your daughter best first. Just because many of the top students at her high school go to school XYZ and XXX doesn't mean that she has to, or even should, march lock step after them. When you're ready to do a few campus visits, it might be a great idea to include both places like UCB and Stanford and places like Swarthmore and Trinity College, or even Dartmouth, for comparison sake. At this point, try to keep ideas pretty open, and keep talking with her about what she might like or want in general terms.
The two websites I gave -- in particular the tryengineering.org one - are good starting points if she's absolutely sure about engineering. If you do a search on my blog for "engineering" I have listed other useful sites in the past as well.
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