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newberry
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Posted: Wed Oct 18th, 2006 01:54 am |
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I’d appreciate any advice/insight about my son’s situation. His LD involves mostly spelling and decoding problems that made reading/writing very slow and tedious in elementary school. In high school he has been granted accomodations (use of computer spell check and extra time for tests). Through all this he has developed wonderful perseverence, methodical study habits that should serve him well in college, and the willingness to seek help as needed.
He’s a senior at a large public high school with multiple course offerings. He has A’s and B’s for an unweighted HS average of 93 (12th percentile). He has mostly honors courses in soph and junior year. No AP courses. Test scores: SAT M-690, CR-630, W-610, SAT II biology 720, ACT 32 (28 in english and writing, 32 science, 34 in reading and math). Has a range of EC. Interests are business, maybe engineering. Current college list includes several SUNY schools (Binghamton, Buffalo, Geneseo), Clarkson, RPI, maybe Union, Case Western, WPI.
His test scores are competitive for the schools listed, but I’m not sure how to evaluate his chances of admission, since many schools state that they place considerable emphasis on the rigor of the high school record in their admissions decisions. Should he look at other schools? (interested in northeast, not large city)
Trying to decide the best academic environment for him has been a perpetual dilemma. My sense is that we have underestimated his potential in the past; as he seems to figure out what he needs to do to perform reasonably well. What clues can we get as to how he’d respond to the challenges of a given school? We haven’t even begun to ask questions of colleges in terms of how they approach a matriculated student with this background, but after reading the discussions here I believe I should begin talking to schools about this. (Continued spell-check and extended time on tests will be useful.)
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CarolynLawrence
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Posted: Wed Oct 18th, 2006 02:12 am |
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Hi Newberry,
Yes, I think it is important that you be proactive about asking if and how each school on his list will support any specific accomodations he might need. A phone call to the disabilities services office at each school should help you track down some answers. Based on what you learn, you might want to add or subtract a few schools. The rule of thumb I would use is to assume that your son will need the same accomodations he has had in high school, and check out their availability, whether there are any issues with some professors not accepting them, any extra costs associated with them, and so on. It's better to know up front what is available, and then not need to use them, then to assume they will be available or that he won't need them.
When colleges talk about "Academic rigor" they are not talking just about the number of AP and honors courses on the transcript. They are also looking at the student's overall curriculum, especially in core academic subjects - how many years of English, math, science, foreign language, social studies? How far has the student gone? Has he or she challenged themself by taking calculus, or more science and foreign language than the high school requires? (They'll know the last from the school profile the high school will send with the transcript). Where does the student rank in his high school class (if available)? How do his test scores match up with the median test scores for this high school (again, on the profile)? All of these will be looked at, not just the number or lack of AP/Honors classes.
Another factor to talk with his guidance counselor about before he or she writes your son's recommendations is whether to disclose the LD in the counselor recommendation, or on your son's own application. There are various schools of thought on this - some are of the mind that mentioning the LD somewhere helps admissions people put the student's achievement in context, others think mentioning the LD should wait until after the student is admitted. (I personally lean towards the first, not the last, but it really depends on the individual situation).
Your son has excellent test scores and good grades - certainly, they are fine for all of the schools on his current list. But, without knowing more about your son's curriculum choices (the questions above), or what else he may have to offer, no one can really give you an accurate prediction of his chances at any school. Still, I hope the above gives you some additional information to use in assessing where he might stand.
Last edited on Wed Oct 18th, 2006 02:16 am by CarolynLawrence
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Northeastmom
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Posted: Wed Oct 18th, 2006 02:34 am |
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| newberry, You might want to look at Northeastern U. too. I know of someone who has a son that was in their LD program a few years ago. He was an engineering major. They were very happy with their program. I believe it requires an interview with their LD department. It has a pretty good business and engineering program, and it offer coops. I think that your son would be in the running for some merit aid too. Last edited on Wed Oct 18th, 2006 02:35 am by Northeastmom
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CarolynLawrence
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Posted: Wed Oct 18th, 2006 04:51 am |
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| Excellent suggestion Northeasternmom!
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CalifCarolyn
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Posted: Wed Oct 18th, 2006 04:21 pm |
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My D is at Northeastern and her BF is an engineering major. D works in the admin office doing tours if you'd like her to scout out who to contact I can ask her to do that for you. she will be in Boston until Dec. and then here in So Cal for the spring doing her 1st co-op.
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WestrnMom
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Posted: Wed Oct 18th, 2006 08:50 pm |
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Carolyn, wouldn't you mention the LD in advance mainly if that information will be taken into consideration for enrollment? Many schools don't have a special admit process, so it wouldn't matter.
Newberry, make sure he has current testing that includes a written diagnosis supported by the test results. Colleges want to see "dyslexia" "dysgraphia" "dyscalculia" rather than just the numbers. Testing should also include a list of all recommended accommodations, plus indication that he has used them during high school (and prior if applicable).
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newberry
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Posted: Thu Oct 19th, 2006 03:17 am |
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Thanks, Carolyn, for the perspective on the high school curriculum. He will have 4 years foreign language (no small feat for someone who can't spell in English), 4 of science including honors physics this year, math through precalc as well as college level English, economics and accounting this year.
We had read about Northeastern early on and I can't remeber why we didn't pursue further except that it's in a large city. I'll take a second look.
My son's counselor recommended we disclose the LD early to insure services/accomodations are available. I asked her to mention it in her recommendation letter. I also talked to one admissions officer who suggested putting the information in the section of the application that allows comments on anything not covered elsewhere. In my son's case I think the information helps keep his school record and his test scores from seeming incongruent, but with so many variables in the admissions equation, who can tell what impact the information really has?
WestrnMom, the last testing was in 9th grade through the school psychologist, so I have my work cut out for me in arranging new testing. I don't recall a specific diagnostic label. I'm going to try to start conversations about this with colleges soon, so I'll will ask specifically what testing they require.
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CalifCarolyn
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Posted: Thu Oct 19th, 2006 03:45 am |
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Newberry-is he still on an IEP? If not under IDEA the requirements for qualifications did change last January and you may be able to re-qualify if he has a processing disorder even if there isn't a discrepancy between ability and performance (I am an SLP and H is a Spec Edu teacher at a HS).
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HImom
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Posted: Thu Oct 19th, 2006 09:19 pm |
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Just for a contrary point of view, while we & the recs did mention in passing the challenges our S overcame thru HS (he has a chronic medical condition which causes frequent & prolonged absences), we did not speak with the disabilities offices at any of the schools he applied to until after he had been accepted & was trying to choose among them.
I guess we were thinking that the main accommodation for him is U being understanding & flexible about absences caused by his medical condition rather than anything in particular we needed the school to provide. It was important to have the conversation in making the decision about which school would work best for our S, but we just had the conversation later (after S had been accepted). If we were to do it again, we'd probably follow the same timing. As our D has a similar situation, we may follow the same timing for her next fall as she applies.
If your child needs accommodations by the school, it would be important to discuss how the school meets such accommodations with other students before bothering to apply. Your child has done very well and I'm sure there will be many attractive choices in April.
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CarolynLawrence
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Posted: Fri Oct 20th, 2006 03:30 am |
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Four years of foreign language with a language disability is truly an accomplishment. That shows a lot of grit and determination on your son's part. Again, I am of the mind that some mention of his LD should be made in the guidance counselor recommendation, but care should be taken to make sure it's only to put grades in context, not make excuses for them or in any way suggest he can't handle college work. My feeling is that the guidance counselor should be the one to disclose the LD, again, without making too much of it, and putting it into proper context. One thing you do not want to do is make the entire application (including recommendations) about the learning disability (or other disability) - you don't want the student to be known as the "kid with the LD" but rather to be known for his or her positive qualities just like any other application. I know others have a different point of view, so I'd trust your own judgement with feedback from the guidance counselor who knows your son's full picture.
I understand HiMom's point of view, but I'd rather know up front whether all of the schools can provide the accomodations he needs. You never know how things might pan out in terms of acceptances, and it would be difficult if the only options he has are not going to meet his needs. By the way, the disabilities services departments do not get involved with admissions decisions in any way so there is no reason not to contact them now.
Last edited on Fri Oct 20th, 2006 04:54 pm by CarolynLawrence
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WestrnMom
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Posted: Fri Oct 20th, 2006 06:37 pm |
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Carolyn, we ran into just one private school and several public that take LDs into account when making decisions on admission. However, in S's case, he's a match for those school, and they are also a good fit, so it seemed unnecessary. I would only mention the LD in passing and then only if it's in a positive manner (overcoming something difficult) rather than focusing too much on it. I edited an essay written by a student last year whose essays all contained extensive LD info. This student is not using resources in college (he overcame the disabilities that caused him problems in school and ended up testing out of resource) and it seems to have affected his admission to every highly competitive school. On the schools he did get into, he got NO financial aid, even though his GPA was extremely high (3.95) It made me wonder if his choice of subject matter was the reason.
Last edited on Fri Oct 20th, 2006 06:38 pm by WestrnMom
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CarolynLawrence
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Posted: Fri Oct 20th, 2006 06:52 pm |
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WestrnMom, I suspect your example proves the point I was trying to make: Don't make the application just about your LD -- you don't want the admissions people to think of you as "that LD kid" but "as that really great math wiz, artist, soccer player...whatever" The LD should be secondary in their minds, once you've established that you can do the work. In the case you describe, I wouldn't be surprised if your hunch about the subject matter was on target.
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newberry
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Posted: Mon Oct 23rd, 2006 01:33 am |
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CalifCarolyn wrote: Newberry-is he still on an IEP? If not under IDEA the requirements for qualifications did change last January and you may be able to re-qualify if he has a processing disorder even if there isn't a discrepancy between ability and performance (I am an SLP and H is a Spec Edu teacher at a HS).
CalifCarolyn, he has had a 504 Accomodation Plan since ninth grade reviewed and renewed annually (is that the same as an IEP?). Last formal testing was in 9th grade and included Wechsler Intelligence Test for Children (4th ed) and Wechsler Individual achivevment Test (2nd ed). The major finding was slow processing.
In elementary school I was told that the discrepancy between abiltiy and performance was not signficant enough for him to qualify for an IEP. (He was consistently 1 ½ years behind expected reading level, but not 2 years.) Fortunately, the school district was able to provide support anyway through about eighth grade with extra help with reading and decoding skills. Ironically, he was doing fairly well academically in the ninth grade, but I called his counselor when he lost 15 points on a social studies test for spelling errors to point out that a kid with his history shouldn’t be paired with a teacher who cared that much about spelling. His counselor immediately suggested repeat formal evaluation, and the accomodations followed. Spelling, switching letters and words, leaving out prepositions, using the wrong word etc continue to be problems, no matter how careful he is.
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