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mom61
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Posted: Wed Jul 5th, 2006 06:31 pm |
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In our search we have noticed that many schools require documentation to qualify for Learning and Disability services. Many note that the testing needs to be less then 3 years old.
My son was last tested in grade 9 so we will have to have him retested. I was thinking that we need to get moving on that soon.
Any advice before we start the testing again. All his previous testing was done before he began taking any meds for ADD. His grades have skyrocketed. Should the testing be done minus any medication for most accurate results. I would think the gap between ability and performance would decrease while on medication.
If anyone has already started the process with a school and has advice on the process it would be helpful
thanks
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WestrnMom
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Posted: Wed Jul 5th, 2006 06:40 pm |
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I'm doing this on my own, not with a particular school in mind. If you go to each college your S is interested in, look at required documentation. Most want the WIAS-III (Wechsler Adult Intelligence Scales) and a reading test, usually Woodcock Johnson, plus achievement tests. They are looking for exact diagnoses, such as Dyslexia or Dysgraphic. You need to find an evaluator who is used to giving tests to adults and getting accommodations for college. If S is 17 (I think it's 16 or over) you must use the adult scales. The colleges prefer them. If he's over 18, it's mandatory. The adult testing should use material that is at a college level, where some of the reading, for example, in the children's tests is just too easy. I would suggest he not take his meds while being tested, so you get an accurate assessment of what he's like without any accommodations. However, that should be discussed with the assessor. I might be able to recommend someone if you tell me where you are locatead. You can PM me if you prefer not to post it. The history is VERY important, as they want to make sure students aren't suddenly manufacturing testing for college.
This is from Chapman University. They don't mention tests by name but other schools will.
Required: -A summary of the student’s history.
-A clinical summary including a summary of the diagnostic interview.
-Measurements of aptitude, academic achievement, and information processing, including, all scores, scales, percentiles on sub-tests. For example, a measure of fluid reasoning is of potential value where mathematics related impairment or dyscalculia is indicated.
-Be reasonably current (assessment done in late high school or as an adult, or following any additional injury or therapy that is relevant to the impairment).
-A statistical analysis of specific discrepancies if any, identifying how expected performance level was calculated and how actual achievement has been contrasted with expected.
-Test score, sub-scores and normal measure intra-individual patterns and intra-individual discrepancies if any. Be technically sound, reliable, valid for the adult population and document the nature and severity of learning disabilities, if any. A clear and specific diagnostic summary.
-The name and signature of the qualified professional (licensed psychologist, psychiatrist, etc.) who administered the test battery, and the name of the professional who prepared the report if different. A brief summary of the psychologist’s or psychiatrist’s background and expertise in assessing learning disabilities should be attached (or put on file with the Academic Resources Center, Office of Students with Disabilities).
Last edited on Wed Jul 5th, 2006 06:41 pm by WestrnMom
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CarolynLawrence
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Posted: Thu Jul 6th, 2006 03:21 am |
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WestrnMom, you are a treasure and I have learned so much from you. Thank you for all of the information you share.
As an aside, I noticed on another board that parents were saying not to disclose any LD's in the admissions process. I truly wonder about the wisdom of that because (1) disclosure allows admissions people to put grades and test scores in some context (2) you do want to make certain up front that the school will be responsive and understanding of LD's.
True, sometimes disclosure of an LD might influence an admissions decision, but would you really want your child to attend a school where that was the case? Seems to me that is a clear message right there that the school may not be as responsive as necessary for LD students.
On the other hand, I don't think that this is necessarily an issue that the child should disclose. If a guidance counselor can address the issue fully, or perhaps a teacher who has first hand knowledge of LD's and the child's abilities (i.e., a learning center director or teacher). I would not, however, send testing results directly to admissions - those should go to the disability services department. But, addressing the issue in related application materials seems like it could definitely make sense if it helps explain or put into context some of the student's background/transcript/test scores.
I'd be interested to hear everyone's thoughts here on this issue.
Last edited on Thu Jul 6th, 2006 03:23 am by CarolynLawrence
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Deja
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Posted: Thu Jul 6th, 2006 12:15 pm |
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This is a good site for information on disabilities and college:
http://www.ahead.org/resources/bestpracticesdoc.htm
Be sure to check out the other links on the lefthand side, too. There is some interesting stuff. I thought this article was especially good -- "Making Accommodations: The Legal World of Students with Disabilities"
http://www.ahead.org/resources/Grossman_Making_Accommodations.doc
My son has Asperger Syndrome. We were fortunate that the high school allowed delay of his three-year eligibility testing (testing is no longer necessary for establishment of continued IDEA eligibility, BTW), so that it would be closer to when he graduated. However, school systems are not required to do college disability documentation -- see this federal memo:
http://www.pattan.net/files/OSEP/CY2002-4qu/Moore01.pdf
The school system's neuropsychologist (yes, my school system has a licensed clinical neuropsychologist) did the testing for him. She asked what accommodations we thought we wanted, then went ahead and did testing to show the need for those accommodations. It was wonderful (we already had a relationship with her). She even documented the need for priority registration (which he got anyway as a perk of being in a Honors College) and a single room.
Last edited on Thu Jul 6th, 2006 03:53 pm by Deja
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mom61
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Posted: Thu Jul 6th, 2006 04:23 pm |
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WestrnMom- you are a great resource. I will PM you with my area.
I am curious about how much to say about son's disabilities. His transcript is going to be viewed oddly if we don't disclose it. He has around a 3.4 but it is not because he is a strong B student. His transcript has many A's but it also has C's and even a D+. And there is no rhyme or reason to the grades in certain subjects. His SAT scores also make more sense if it is disclosed. He also has the framework of a decent essay already written that talks about the changes he made in his life to get to where he is now academically.
He will apply to a number of Cal States where you don't have an opportunity to disclose anything. Most of these he should get in. For the smaller liberal arts schools that he might apply to I think that his LD will be a factor in whether they admit him or not. How the different schools view this will be difficult to predict. I think that would be a reason that he might apply to a few more schools then average.
He has been identified as LD since age 7 so we have history on our side. Our school psychologist changes from year to year so they aren't any help. Most years they are interns. His last testing was done privately. The guy was okay not great but we will probably use him again. I don't have many choices unless I am willing to drive 2 hours each way. Thanks for the heads up on the testing on the adult scale. From looking at his previous tests he was given the tests that most schools want.
As far as the counselor or teacher's addressing the issue, I have found that they are nice helpful people but I would be hesitant to leave it up to them.
Like WestrnMom I have started looking up individual schools. It looks like some schools you send the Disability information to them at the same time as you apply. Others it appears like the student provides the material once they are at the school. Some schools such as U of Arizona you might get admitted to the University but not the SALT program since the need for services exceeds the capacity. Some sites seem very friendly and helpful whereas others don't give off that feeling.
We have not done any visits yet with this child. I am interested if anyone has done visits that included an appointment with the disabilities office?
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Deja
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Posted: Thu Jul 6th, 2006 05:37 pm |
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This is a link to the Evaluators' Section of the ets.org website. Although it relates to testing to receive accommodations on admissions testing, I think it's also relevant for college accommodations disability documentation:
http://www.ets.org/portal/site/ets/menuitem.22f30af61d34e9c39a77b13bc3921509/?vgnextoid=73844deaa99f9010VgnVCM10000022f95190RCRD
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WestrnMom
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Posted: Thu Jul 6th, 2006 11:36 pm |
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I have the advantage of having wonderful mentors in parents whose children have already gone through the process. The consensus is not to write about it in a detailed essay as the adcoms want to see that your child is more than just a walking disability who needs accomodations. They want to see the whole person. The only time I'd suggest writing an essay including an LD is if one is very positive about it and has grown from the experience. Otherwise, it can run the risk of sounding like one should get in because of the LD rather than on one's merits and abilities.
However, I don't know of one parent yet who has hidden this from the school. You must know in advance if it's a match for your child. If they don't admit based on disabilities, they run the danger of being sued for discrimination, especially if the school operates on federal money. If it's a private school, if they have services available, they usually are very willing to take LD students if they feel your child can do the work. The last thing you want is a situation where your child is unable to keep up because the coursework is too hard, whether the student is disabled or not. So you need to find a match school, and also one which has the right services.
After talking this over with my husband, we decided that the services are our #1 priority in determining the best schools. That means we are looking further than S thinks he wants to go to cover all bases.
A mom told me her son got into all the major LACs he applied to, Redlands, U of the Pacific, Cal Lutheran, Santa Clara, U of Puget Sound with a B+ average, average SAT across the board, except a 620 or 640 in Math, and told every one of them he has LDs. He used the GC to give the information, rather than talking about it himself.
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WestrnMom
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Posted: Thu Jul 6th, 2006 11:56 pm |
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Deja, what that site doesn't explain is that they routinely turn down requests based on public school testing of high school students. Most public schools are trying to exclude by middle school rather than include, so the testing tends to show that. S was evaluated in high school by the public school rather than private testing, and the school psychologist told me most of their students test out. How is that even possible since learning disabilities, like Dyslexia, don't magically disappear? It's because they are not doing adequate testing. S was turned down for accommodations that he routinely gets and uses in school because the testing didn't give enough depth. The paper from ETS even said, insufficient data. The school refused to retest, and said, It's not our job to get your child accommodations, all we need to do is show whether or not he still qualifies for services. They basically tested him out. We later found out that they used child-normed tests when he was over 16, at which time he should have had the WAIS. However ETS didn't say, "We need to see the WAIS" Instead he was given the WASI, which I later found out NO private psychologist even uses. ETS didn't accept it, but didn't tell us that, they just said, "Inadequate testing"
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Deja
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Posted: Fri Jul 7th, 2006 09:50 am |
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WestrnMom wrote: If they don't admit based on disabilities, they run the danger of being sued for discrimination, especially if the school operates on federal money.
Yes, but it could be extremely difficult to prove that this type of discrimination was what happened in the seemingly inconsistent and often inexplicable world of (particularly elite) college admissions.
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Deja
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Posted: Fri Jul 7th, 2006 10:03 am |
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WestrnMom wrote: It's because they are not doing adequate testing. S was turned down for accommodations that he routinely gets and uses in school because the testing didn't give enough depth. The paper from ETS even said, insufficient data. The school refused to retest, and said, It's not our job to get your child accommodations, all we need to do is show whether or not he still qualifies for services. They basically tested him out. We later found out that they used child-normed tests when he was over 16, at which time he should have had the WAIS. However ETS didn't say, "We need to see the WAIS" Instead he was given the WASI, which I later found out NO private psychologist even uses. ETS didn't accept it, but didn't tell us that, they just said, "Inadequate testing"
If the inadequate testing was done as part of sped re-eligibility testing, then it was your right by federal statute and federal sped regulations to request that an Independent Education Evaluation (IEE) at public expense be done. The school would have only two responses: grant the IEE at public expense or take you to due process to show why their testing was adequate. The overwhelming majority of schools choose to grant the IEE at public expense, because it's a lot less money and time for them. A parent can be asked, but they don't even have to say, why they are requesting the independent testing at public expense.
There are some advocates who say that ALL school testing should be questioned. And then there are some who say that outside evaluators paid for by the school system may not be as independent as they should be.
My son's requested accommodation was granted by College Board, so I don't have personal experience with an accommodation being denied for college admissions testing. But then he had a longstanding history of eligibility, services and accommodations by that time. He refused to agree to ask for extended time (which, for math, should have been one of his accommodations for the SAT). His reasoning was, "That test is long enough already; why would I agree to make it even longer for me?" I don't doubt that he would have been granted extended time if needed, though.
As with most things disability related, though, the devil is in the details. "Appropriate" in spedspeak becomes "reasonable" in the disability language of post-secondary institutions. And there is more to college disability accommodations than great documentation testing (which we had) and accommodations granted on paper. The college/university can still make it difficult to get those approved accommodations. But that is a story for another day...
Last edited on Sat Jul 8th, 2006 10:50 am by Deja
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WestrnMom
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Posted: Sat Jul 8th, 2006 03:01 am |
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Deja you were so fortunate! It's important to understand one's own district as to how they treat special ed, testing and services. Ours doesn't care. They do sloppy testing, and try to test out as many students as possible. When parents go to due process they drag it out past the point where the children need services, and it's usually dropped. They feel if they can make an example of families who try to use it, that fewer will opt to do so, and it's worked.
California education budgets are stretched to the limit. Some districts, especially those that get proportionately less funding, put as much as possible into honors and as little as they can get away with into special ed. This has been a long, arduous process for special ed families. Other districts are willing to work with families to get the best possible results. We were told by many people to get private testing, which we are now doing.
I wanted to add that we are evaluating colleges first by their special services, then by their other programs, majors, etc. If they don't offer the right services, it doesn't matter how good the school is, it won't work.
Last edited on Sat Jul 8th, 2006 03:03 am by WestrnMom
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Deja
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Posted: Sat Jul 8th, 2006 12:19 pm |
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WestrnMom wrote: Deja you were so fortunate!
Yes, we were when he was in high school, with (mostly) appropriate services, supports and accommodations and a dynamite transition evaluation for college disability documentation, but things were very different in middle school. Although he'd had an IEP since the day he entered public school kindergarten, he was so misunderstood and what I consider to be emotionally abused at times in middle school that he was suspended multiple times, moved around to three different middle schools (and no, we hadn't moved) and ended up out on homebound placement for most of 8th grade. Trust me, Asperger Syndrome can be very misunderstood.
It's important to understand one's own district as to how they treat special ed, testing and services. Ours doesn't care. They do sloppy testing, and try to test out as many students as possible. When parents go to due process they drag it out past the point where the children need services, and it's usually dropped.
There are plenty of complaints from others about my system, and in fact there are huge problems with special education throughout the country. Funding (and now special education teacher qualifications, particularly at the secondary level) are big problems everywhere. Since my son was labeled both gifted and sped, I have walked in both worlds at the same time. And it's an uneasy journey between the sped and gifted worlds, hindered by the fact that schools often have difficulty understanding the dually-labeled student.
While I no longer have a child receiving special education services (oh, and BTW, for others reading, special education is a service and not a place, and special education does not have to mean a segregated special education classroom), I am still interested in special education issues. I believe that schools are not forthcoming with information for parents. For example, many parents have no idea that they are entitled to question school evaluations for special education and request IEEs at public expense. Unfortunately, parents have to almost become experts in federal, state and local special education policies, procedures and law in order to give their child the best chance of receiving FAPE (Free Appropriate Public Education). Until my son hit rock-bottom at the end of 7th grade, I did not really know these things, and then I had to give myself a crash course to begin to learn about special education.
Back to testing, though -- does your school system take parents to due process rather than grant them Individual Educational Evaluations (IEEs) at public expense? That would be more expensive for them, so I would be really surprised to hear that they do that as a matter of course.
Here is some general information that I'm posting, in case parents of students receiving special education services (or who are being tested for sped eligibility) are reading:
http://www.wrightslaw.com/info/test.iee.steedman.htm
When Parents & School Staff Disagree
When parents and the school district disagree about the need for an independent educational evaluation (IEE), there are certain conditions in which a school district may be forced to pay for the evaluation. If the parents present an evaluation that the school district previously refused to conduct, the school district may be required to reimburse the parents for the costs of this evaluation - if it is determined that the evaluation provided information which impacted the child's education, services or placement.
Additionally, if the parents disagree with a school district evaluation and request an IEE at public expense, the school district must obtain the IEE and pay for it unless the school district requests a due process hearing and the hearing officer rules that the IEE is not needed. 34 C.F.R. 300.503.
In other words, the school district cannot simply refuse the parents' request for an independent evaluation. The district must consent to the IEE at public expense, or request a due process hearing and prove to a hearing officer that the school evaluation was sufficient. Finally, if a hearing officer orders an IEE during the course of a due process hearing, it will be conducted at public expense. Id.
And here is a letter from OSEP (Office of Special Education Programs) regarding parents choosing their own evaluator as opposed to being limited to one on the school's list of approved evaluators:
http://www.wrightslaw.com/info/test.eval.choice.osep.htm
I wanted to add that we are evaluating colleges first by their special services, then by their other programs, majors, etc. If they don't offer the right services, it doesn't matter how good the school is, it won't work.
That is very wise of you. My son pretty much refused to do that (you'd have to understand Asperger Syndrome to understand why this isn't surprising).
In thinking about this whole issue, I also think that it needs to be brought about that different kinds of disabilities need different considerations/priorities in the college selection process. I'm thinking particularly of the developmental, emotional, and behavioral types of disabilities. I had a wonderful conversation with the associate disability director of one of our very large state universities (who really impressed me, BTW, because of her interest in learning about and understanding Asperger Syndrome). She told me that professors often have a hard time understanding Asperger Syndrome. A local psychologist who specializes in AS told me that he's had 3 out 4 clients recently have to leave their colleges because they were not accommodated properly. As in public k-12 schooling, it's very difficult for kids with these kinds of issues. Yet they do have disabilities, and therefore rights. Like I wrote in a previous post, though, the devil is in the details.
I didn't mean to climb on my soapbox about all of this, but it is something that I've been passionate about for years now. Although I pretty much vowed to just be a lurker until my second son was a little older (he's a rising hs sophomore), sometimes it's very hard for me to keep my hands away from the keyboard! 
Last edited on Sat Jul 8th, 2006 12:23 pm by Deja
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WestrnMom
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Posted: Sat Jul 8th, 2006 11:09 pm |
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Deja I didn't realize you were talking about AS. I'm very familiar with it, as a friend's child has it. He's now an adult and opted not to go to college because he couldn't handle it. Instead, he lived at home, went to tech school and last I heard was working in retail, maybe at Blockbuster? Not what we expected for him at all, as he's very bright.
S is LD and gifted, and oh yes, we've been through it all. Our public school system has no means of dealing with comprehension issues in gifted students. They can't. They don't know how, nor are they willing to allocate resources for it. We pulled ours out of district after elementary because our middle school is known for losing those kids who fall between the cracks. As a result, we had to find and create a program with another school who was eager to work with us. They had a wonderful program in place, we taught them how it works for our child.
The district will give an IEP to any student who qualifies, and they will even write in accommodations, however all they wanted to do was modify his coursework. As in dumbing it down. Instead, he's in an environment that is more like college. The teachers give lectures, computers are available, teachers hold office hours during lunch and after school, they mentor the students, they know them by name and by interests. The LD kids are required to do all mainstream work and take all mainstream classes. Grades are given based on papers, essays and testing. They do projects, all very much like college, very little like our local high schools. There is a quiet room for proctored exams, with computers and scribes available if the students need them. They also encourage them to work in small groups, to answer study questions before exams, and to print up group copies so each student has something to use to study from. They don't rely as heavily on textbooks as they do on interactive learning. We are looking for colleges with the same options.
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