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n2ny
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Posted: Thu May 24th, 2007 08:04 pm |
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I am trying to interest my son in some smaller, liberal arts schools but he's resisting one in particular that is a good match for him because (he's heard) the male population is mostly "gay." I am certain this reputation is more legend than fact, and that the campus has a fairly routine mix of sexual preferences, but are there any reliable sources that report this kind of information? Thanks for the help.
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Chedva
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Posted: Thu May 24th, 2007 10:39 pm |
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Can you convince him that this could be a positive? Less competition for dates? 
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outwest
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Posted: Fri May 25th, 2007 12:18 am |
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I know of no such statistical base. The best way to get a feel for a place in this way is to go visit. I will say that my #1 went to a womens college that had a large gay population. She developed some interesting ideas throughout the four years, but came through unscathed and as a better person to boot. By the time a person is 18 those tendencies are pretty much set. You either are or you aren't or maybe somewhere inbetween, but I don't think people change. There is certainly nothing to be afraid of.
Chedva is right. There will be a much better chance of getting dates. 
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n2ny
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Posted: Fri May 25th, 2007 12:54 am |
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Outwest: I want to be clear that this isn't about homophobia, or some moral or religious objections to homosexuality, and I am not "afraid" of anything -- especially that he will "turn" gay simply because he attends classes with gay people. I do know better than that, and we''ve taught him better than that. As I said, I would like him to consider the school. But the school's rep troubles him, and I'm trying to be realistic, so if possible, I'd like to show him it's fiction, rather than fact.
We'll definitely visit.
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outwest
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Posted: Fri May 25th, 2007 01:13 am |
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I do think if you look at the gay clubs on campus and the numbers that belong to them you can get a feel for how prevelent alternative lifestyles are. I also think that your son wants to fit in, just as everyone should, and that there is nothing wrong with wanting to go to a school that has less of a presence then another place.
You wouldn't want to mention what school it is, would you? Someone here may have some personal or antedotal experience.
But, yes, you should certainly visit if at all possible, especially since this is a topic that is never quantified by the college or anyone else. It is way too politically hot for that.
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CarolynLawrence
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Posted: Fri May 25th, 2007 02:25 am |
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IMPORTANT: I think this is a legitimate discussion topic, but I want to caution anyone who may respond to be very sensitive in your replies. Think twice, maybe even three times, about how any reply might be interpreted by others, including the parents of gay-lesbian-bi students. If anyone is offended by anything said in this discussion, please PM me directly to let me know, and I will consider closing the thread. Thank you.
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That said, I am still not exactly clear about why this troubles your son, Ny. Is he worried that others might think he is gay when he tells them he goes to the school in question? If that's the case, then I'm not sure visiting the campus will give you the information/answer you and he are seeking. On the other hand, if he is uncertain at some level that he won't feel comfortable at a school with a large gay-lesbian population, then visiting still won't address the real issue. How will he be able to tell who is gay or lesbian just by walking around on a tour? I mean, you may see a few gay or lesbian couples walking around, but, gee, most gay and lesbians look and act pretty much like regular people.
The broader issue, however, is whether the overall campus culture of any school is going to be a good fit for the individual student. I have found that if a student shows a strong reaction to the culture or reputation of a particular school right off the bat, that pushing them to consider it seldom works and is usually counter-productive. And, that goes for whether the reaction is about a strong frat scene, a preponderance of geeky or preppy students, or the liberal/conservative leanings of the student body, not just GLBT issues. So, perhaps instead of trying to get your son to consider this particular school, you should just move on to the next one. 
By the way, I have some excellent resources for those who DO want a gay-friendly college including a list of "gay friendly" schools from The Advocate on my blog: http://collegehunt.blogspot.com/2006/09/gay-friendly-colleges.html
Last edited on Fri May 25th, 2007 02:32 am by CarolynLawrence
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limner
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Posted: Fri May 25th, 2007 02:35 am |
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n2ny, my only thought is that it may not matter what evidence you show him to the contrary, he may not like the school. At one LAC that my H and S visited, I heard from H on one phone call about how "geeky," as in very nerdy, the campus was. Two hours later, I get a phone call from son. I ask his impression. He says the campus has "a lot of jocks." 
I wondered if they were on the same campus; they had such different impressions. Anyway, the point of this long story is that sometimes people don't see what's really there, just what they think is there.
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n2ny
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Posted: Fri May 25th, 2007 03:36 am |
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Thank you Carolyn, I think that is all wise advice. And I am trying to be sensitive and, at the same time, not patronizing, either. I apologize if anything I have said has offended. That was never my intent at all. I would like to emphasize that my children attend urban public schools that embrace the most diverse population imaginable, and we have appreciated and celebrated the unique richness of their experiences. No one should construe my comments as condoning discrimination of any kind.
I do think a visit will help him to guage his comfort level with the school, and certainly, whether he could see himself there. I think it is a disservice to that school and to my son to measure it by what is, as far as I can tell, some stereotype. At any rate, I would only want him to attend a school that authentically celebrates diversity.
Limner -- what you say is so true. Someone told me her daughter knew as soon as they get out of the car if she liked the school or not. My son is still exploring his options, and this one (on paper at least) is really a good fit in so many ways that I'd like to keep a dialogue open if I can.
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Lderochi
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Posted: Fri May 25th, 2007 03:21 pm |
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| First impressions, no matter how informed or uninformed, are often the hardest to get past, so I think you have a tough road ahead. I'd let it rest for awhile and maybe raise it again sometime towards the end of Summer. There were several schools that looked like good fits that came off S' list solely due to the schools' introductory brochure or DVD.
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WestrnMom
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Posted: Fri May 25th, 2007 04:48 pm |
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I saw this yesterday and didn't respond because I wanted to think more about it. I suspect there is more behind his resistance to the school than what he told you. Could it be that he is reacting to being told where to apply more than he is worried about a particular reputation a school has? I may be reading more into it than he meant, but if he isn't interested in a school for whatever reason, even one that seems silly to parents, move on. There are so many other schools out there. We visited two schools that I thought were very good matches and adequate for my son, and he disliked both of them. His reason at one was because the tour guide didn't seem very bright. So I took him a second time and he disliked it just as much each time, once with a tour guide and once without. That was just something he told me but later on he said there were a lot of things he didn't like about the school, that was just the easiest to explain.
After reading the replies, I don't take the OP's question as anti-gay but as her son worried that he might not find a friend base or fit into a school. That could happen anywhere. One school we visited was completely overrun with Greeks to the point that we didn't notice anything but the social aspects. I think it's important, especially at a small school, to make sure there are enough activities, clubs, events, that a student attending will be able to fit in. In fact, one of the downsides at some of the LACs we visited, was an obvious lack of diversity.
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bumpyroad
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Posted: Fri May 25th, 2007 05:37 pm |
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| One thing that may or not apply here but is true for my kids - the culture for high school kids when it comes to gay/lesbian issues is dramatically different from what those of us who were in school 20 or 30 years ago experienced. Their awareness of GLBT sorts of issues is pretty different and at least here much more accepting - so saying "I don't want to go that school because it's too gay" isn't much different from "I don't want to go to school because it's too big" or something similar. So, it may be good to not make a bigger deal of it than that.
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n2ny
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Posted: Fri May 25th, 2007 06:16 pm |
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Thanks, Westrnmom, for your thoughtful response. He's been fairly passive, but also very open-minded, about this whole process and has actually appreciated some guidance (and what a change that is!!). We're really trying not to push him or impose anything on him, but he does still need guidance. I agree there are many great schools, but we have some issues that limit where, geographically, he can go, so I'd rather not rule a good match out if we can avoid it. But, he chose the high school he attends and made a great decision on that, so I know he'll step up to the plate and make the right choice for himself again when the time comes. I'd just like to try to give him the information he needs to do that, if possible.
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WestrnMom
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Posted: Sat May 26th, 2007 12:28 am |
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I found that I worried more in advance. When we finally started visiting schools, everything fell into place. The concerns you have now might not be that important by next fall. Mine had very definite ideas on geographic location, which we found to be defining rather than limiting. I don't know how he would have cut down the number of schools if he had included an enormous geographic area.
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n2ny
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Posted: Sat May 26th, 2007 04:01 am |
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| Westernmom: describing it as "defining" (verses limiting) is just perfect. In some ways it does make it easier. Thanks.
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Pye
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Posted: Mon May 28th, 2007 01:06 pm |
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It's normal to hope that your college will have plenty of kids "like me"--in whatever ways you define that. That helps to make a school a "good fit" for you.
Your son should try to think about what positive qualities he hopes to find in a college community-- people who share his political or religious views? people who enjoy the same sports? people who like to talk about topics that interest him? people with a strong social conscience? people who take music or art seriously? As long as there are enough of these people to form "a critical mass" for social interactions, he will likely be happy. As to other sorts of people who may also be there, part of the education thing is learning tolerance.
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alanarch
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Posted: Wed May 30th, 2007 07:41 pm |
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You are right to guide your son but at some point the process is his whether it is rational or not. I believe Westernmom is correct in that he is giving you a shorthand answer for a more complicated, hard to verbalize answer. I would leave it alone. If you trust your son, let him go through his process, however irrational and tortured it might be. You might be pleasantly surprised at what conclusions he ends up making.
After having guided my son to a certain set of schools, he took over the process and with duct tape firmly in place, I said very little and answered a few of his questions and could not have been more pleased with the results.
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n2ny
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Posted: Wed May 30th, 2007 08:08 pm |
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| That's good advice, alanarch. I'm looking forward to tthe day he takes a more active role in all this! I've got my duct tape ready.
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