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CardinalFang
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Posted: Mon Apr 28th, 2008 04:02 pm |
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My son has read descriptions of Kalamazoo College in the Princeton Review; I've read about it in Colleges That Change Lives (CTCL). It sounds like it might be a great fit. (He loved, "My friend has this theory: There is a secret question on the application that no one remembers answering. The question is, 'On a scale of 1 to 10, 10 being the oddest, how odd are you?' If you don't score at least a 5, you don't get in.")
Kalamazoo is primarily a regional LAC, drawing the large majority of its students from the upper Midwest. I'm wondering how it would be to be from out of the area, when almost everyone else is local. Any thoughts?
I'm also wondering whether Kalamazoo, like Grinnell and Macalester, might be gaining a more national reputation from its exposure in CTCL.
Last edited on Mon Apr 28th, 2008 04:11 pm by CardinalFang
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defyingravity1
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Posted: Mon Apr 28th, 2008 06:28 pm |
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| Cardinal, I cannot answer for K. but I can answer from my experience at Mcdaniel, another of the CTCL schools. Being one of the few students not from Maryland ( But I am from NY) basically everyone not from Maryland is from NY,NJ or PA, it has been hard to say the least. I am transfering to Earlham, which has almost 80% out of state. It it hard because my roomie goes home almost every weekend as does most of the campus and the campus does not provide much to do on the weekends, also the dining hall mostly closes down on weekend with only a few stations open, and the coffee shop closes.
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CardinalFang
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Posted: Mon Apr 28th, 2008 06:33 pm |
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Thanks, defying. A large number of students going home every weekend is one of the things I'm worried about-- but I don't know if it's a problem at Kalamazoo.
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jocelynDAD
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Posted: Mon Apr 28th, 2008 06:41 pm |
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CFang:
When I lived in California (1000 Oaks/Newbury Park), almost everyone I met seemed to be originally from somewhere else. Native born seemed to be almost non-existent. 
Our D2 at St Olaf in Minnesota, first roommate was from Oregon and current RM is from Maryland. We are from New Jersey. Her best friend is from Minnesota. Our D3 will be going to Illinois Wesleyan University, which draws most of their current students from Illinois. I have found that LAC's in the MidWest are eager to enroll students from either coast and anywhere in between. 
Kalamazoo (which D3 and I visited in September 2007) is a small campus, with a large Western Michigan University in the same town. So Kalamazoo has lots and lots of Michigan students in that town. ( I wrote a review of Kalamazoo at that time).
Howsoever, it really IMO depends on the individual student and how that student 'feels' about the school, its faculty and the current students.
You have to IMO have the student visit, stay overnight, take classes and kinda 'marinate' on the scene for any personal take on the school, its atmosphere and the most importan part - how does he/she 'fit' with the current students.
Of course, academics play a large part and most of that is the kind of information that Guide books, etc will give a picture, but the rest depends IMO on that individual student.
Those emigrants to California from the other 49 states seemed to adapt to California pretty well. I do believe that persons from Califoria can find the other 49 states as welcoming and might even find those other states enjoyable and fun as well. 
Ok so the sun does not shine every month for 29 days (although in California the rains in February and March can get boring) and a beach is a distant mirage, often the traffic actually moves at the speed limit and people live within 15 minutes of where they work! Other than that, the cultural activities and amenities are quite often very similar although Jack in the Box and other regional fast foods are not nearly as available as Mac/Wendy's/BK. 
In long, if the school meets your child's academic requirements - the rest is really up to him/her. BTW, if your child is still interested in visiting Kalamazoo, just up the road in Holland, Michigan is Hope College , another excellent LAC. 
Good Luck!
Last edited on Tue Apr 29th, 2008 06:29 am by jocelynDAD
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jocelynDAD
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Posted: Mon Apr 28th, 2008 06:56 pm |
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Re: Suitcase campus as discussed by DG>
McDaniel is located is a rural area of Maryland, with little stimulus in the immediate area. My wife is a graduate of Goucher, a college in Maryland and we have visited McDaniel for both D1 and D3 (back when McDaniel was named Western Maryland).
McDaniel has a large graduate student program and these are nornally commuters, so clearly the supporting elements (coffee shop) might not be ecomonically feasible on weekends.
Kalamazoo has none of these characteristics IMO. It is a undergraduate campus, in a city with a large student population (WMU has over 20,000 students) so the city has many attractions for college students and the ability to attend functions are open to all students as far as I could tell.
Michigan itself is a lot larger than Maryland and the temptation to take off for weekends is minimal. Certainly, many in their first term probably do go home on weekends, but in Michigan, it snows rather often in November thru March and even April. Traveling long distances for Mom's cooking and home town honey gets old as it gets cold.
Again, visiting and mingling will answer that concern, recognize that Kalamazoo is located in the western/southern part of the state, it really is closer to Chicago and even Milwaukee than to Detroit, so going home for many would really be a trip!
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CardinalFang
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Posted: Mon Apr 28th, 2008 07:02 pm |
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Thanks, JDad. I'm not worried about Fang Jr. hating the Midwest. I think he'll love it. Laid back people who love sausage and hockey, what's not to like?
My concern is more about what defying experienced at McDaniel: that it was a de facto commuter school where there wasn't enough of a campus community to keep students there on weekends. But from what you say, it sounds like that's considerably less of an issue at Kalamazoo.
And yes, it's a good idea to visit, but Kalamazoo is a long way from California and if I heard about Kalamazoo what defying just said about McDaniel, I would cross it off the list and save the plane fare.
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jocelynDAD
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Posted: Mon Apr 28th, 2008 07:15 pm |
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CFang:
McDaniel is a good school (D3 applied and was accepted), but it does not provide overnights for students and seeks to limit the visit to only one class. Ergo, she could not get the close interaction with the students that we desired for our D3 to develop a comprehensive opinion.
We have had friends, whose children attended and graduated from Western Maryland/McDaniel and from them we are aware of the quality of the educational experience, but like you the social etc experience is a main concern.
Kalamazoo from a social standpoint would not be comparable to McDaniel IMO.
BTW, it is not that far, flying into Midway or Ohare in Chicago and it is an easy drive to Kalamazoo from Chicago.
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CarolynLawrence
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Posted: Mon Apr 28th, 2008 07:40 pm |
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Cardinal Fang, My main concern with Kalamazoo wouldn't be how many students live in adjoining states but how having so many students doing off-campus study at any given time might affect campus life. I have met at least two students who transferred OUT of Kalamazoo for this reason. One transferred to Earlham, one to Beloit. When I asked why they transferred from K-zoo, which seems like such a similar school to Earlham and Beloit, they both mentioned that they felt campus life suffered because of the K-zoo plan. So, you might want to ask some current students about that - again, it could just be these two students viewpoint, but having had two different transfer students mention it to me, I'd want to investigate further. When a large chunk of students at an already small school is off-campus, it can affect things.
As you know, my daughter is a Californian at Beloit. While the actual percentage of students at Beloit from Wisconsin is small, there is a sizable chunk of kids from Illinois and Minnesota. Yet, they also have students from around the world and just about every state in the country. Beloit also has 98% of kids living on campus for all four years. The upshot is my daughter has never felt "abandoned" when friends who live close to home go home for the occasional weekend. She has plenty of friends on campus every weekend (and lots of invitations to go home with friends when they are heading that way). She also has amused herself by shattering stereotypes of "blonde Californians" for mid-westerners.  She has close friends from Wisconsin and Illinois, but also from Alaska, New York, Ohio, Oregon, China, Malaysia, Georgia, Florida, Uganda and, yes, even California.
However, she is dreading next fall when several of her best friends will be studying abroad. She's going in the spring, so that means a year without seeing each other. But, while a lot of students do study abroad at Beloit, the percentage doing so is smaller than at some other schools, including K-zoo.
So, I think the questions I would ask at any school (not just K-zoo) where your child might be traveling far is:
1. How many students are actually on campus studying in any given semester or year? (If 300 kids are off campus at a school with a student body of 1200, that's different than the same number off campus at a school with 10,000 students)
2. How many students live in the dorms all four years?
3. How many students stay on campus most weekends? (Be sure to visit on a Saturday before making a final choice)
4. How many students from your home state attend? (There's a difference between being the only Californian, and being one of 50 or 60)
5. What does the school provide in terms of incentives to make staying on campus on the weekend attractive?
6. What percentage of the faculty come from outside the immediate area? (My daughter has been pleased to discover that quite a few of her profs at Beloit are from California originally - she says they understand where she's coming from!)
Ultimately, however, I think my daughter would have gone to Beloit even if no one had ever HEARD of California. But, she has been glad to be at a school where there are plenty of kids far from home.
Last edited on Mon Apr 28th, 2008 07:43 pm by CarolynLawrence
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Mrs. Aardvark
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Posted: Mon Apr 28th, 2008 08:12 pm |
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Although it has virtually no characteristics in common with Kalamazoo, I have similar questions about one school on my daugher's list - University of South Florida.
This is a humongous school (~30,000 students) and according to the Princeton Review, less than 5% of them are from out-of-state.
However, I have heard anecdotally of 5 out-of-state students (two from Massachusetts, two from NJ and one from Ohio) who attend and love it, no reports of anyone trying it and hating it.
So ya just never know....
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outwest
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Posted: Mon Apr 28th, 2008 11:12 pm |
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Kalamazoo was on my #3 daughter's short list. She is also from CA. The reason it came off the list is because she wanted a school where most students were on campus on the weekends and most students were from out of state. The K-Plan kind of undermined that, so it came off. Out of state, of course, means one thing in those little states back east when 80% may be out of state, but 70% are within a hundred miles and another in larger states.
The other thing she looked at was the percentage who live on campus. The college she chose has a whopping 95% of students live on campus all four years, Even though probably 50% of the students are from within a hundred miles of home, most live in the dorms. And, the 50% who aren't from the surrounding area are from all over the country and globe!
My second daughter went to a large state school 400 miles from home. 80% or more of those kids went home on the weekends and she was lonely every weekend. She transferred.
What you need to look at are two things with most schools: The percent who live on campus all four years and the percent who are close to their homes. Kalamazoo, as Carolyn stated, is a special case because it has that unusual K-Plan. It reminds me of Colorado College in that you either will love that aspect or hate it, but be sure you are aware of it. The K-Plan is a big thing about who Kalamazoo is and what they are trying to accomplish.
That said, I don't think Kalamazoo is a regional school and it is worth a look for your son.
Last edited on Mon Apr 28th, 2008 11:17 pm by outwest
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mackinaw
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Posted: Mon Apr 28th, 2008 11:24 pm |
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I can't let this fabulous comment by JDad go unremarked:
You have to IMO have the student visit, stay overnight, take classes and kinda 'marinate' on the scene for any personal take on the school, its atmosphere and the most important part - how does he/she 'fit' with the current students.
Carolyn, you need to use this sound advice about marinating on your other site.
Last edited on Mon Apr 28th, 2008 11:25 pm by mackinaw
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CarolynLawrence
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Posted: Tue Apr 29th, 2008 05:29 am |
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JDad always has a way with words.
But, he is spot on. I dislike colleges that don't allow overnights for that reason. I know it is probably a pain to coordinate overnights, but part of me always wonders: what are they trying to hide from prospies?
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CardinalFang
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Posted: Tue Apr 29th, 2008 03:55 pm |
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Maybe "regional school" was the wrong term. I mean that, unlike, say, Carleton, a large percentage of the students at Kalamazoo are from the upper Midwest.
I wonder how much that statistic is changing. IIRC, Kalamazoo wasn't originally a CTCL school but it is now.
With a son attracted to small LACs, I'm having to get used to imagining him at a school I had never heard of last year. I have to get my ego out of the way and help him find what is right for him. Duct tape!
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outwest
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Posted: Tue Apr 29th, 2008 04:25 pm |
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If money is a factor those schools that are slightly more regional will find him more attractive.
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CardinalFang
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Posted: Tue Apr 29th, 2008 04:46 pm |
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Not sure what you mean, outwest. Do you mean that Fang Jr is more likely to get a scholarship at a regional school because the school is looking for more out-of-area students?
Fang Jr will not be applying for aid, but perhaps desire for geographical balance will help him in admissions, anyway.
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jocelynDAD
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Posted: Tue Apr 29th, 2008 06:29 pm |
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CFang:
Although I do believe it is wise to submit the FAFSA even if your child is not seeking FAid, the awarding of merit scholarships is entirely separate from FAid.
Outwest is accurate if that some LAC's (seeking diversity in many aspects including Geography) often award a merit scholarship to desired applicants and if that applicant is from OOS the college might offer the scholarship at a higher level or with a slightly lower criteria.
Nothing can be predicted in this college application/acceptance 'game', but diversity is a key element in today's climate IMO.
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CardinalFang
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Posted: Tue Apr 29th, 2008 06:32 pm |
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| Why would it be a good idea to submit a FAFSA if not seeking aid? There are so many hoops to jump through already, I was looking forward to avoiding that one.
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Kareni
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Posted: Tue Apr 29th, 2008 08:34 pm |
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One reason I've heard that it is wise to submit the FAFSA is that if one's circumstances change during the college years (i.e., loss of job or death in the family) that it might then be possible to apply for aid whereas if one does not already have a FAFSA filed that this might not be the case. Perhaps others can verify if this is indeed true.
Regards,
Kareni
CardinalFang wrote: Why would it be a good idea to submit a FAFSA if not seeking aid? There are so many hoops to jump through already, I was looking forward to avoiding that one.
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outwest
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Posted: Wed Apr 30th, 2008 12:14 am |
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Kareni is correct with many schools. I know that in the FA meeting for my Ds chosen school they said that only those students who filled out a FA application before acceptance would be able to reapply every year and they meet 100% of their need. Also, some schools give out merit scholarships based partially on filling out the FA info. It doesn't hurt to fill the things out. Many people may not qualify any need aid, but they are just above those cutoffs. Those students may be seen as benefitting from a merit offer. The thing to keep in mind is that all schools are different. If he has the money for all four years in the bank including tuition increases then I suppose you needent worry about filling them out. If you are planning to use current income along with savings then why not fill one out? They are not hard to do.
The only caveat is that most schools have a little box to check if you are not applying for aid. My gut says that those apps get extra special consideration.
Last edited on Wed Apr 30th, 2008 12:17 am by outwest
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CardinalFang
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Posted: Wed Apr 30th, 2008 12:27 am |
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outwest wrote: The only caveat is that most schools have a little box to check if you are not applying for aid. My gut says that those apps get extra special consideration.
Exactly what we hope for. It's too bad that some colleges are need-aware, but ya gotta take your advantages where you can.
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