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CardinalFang
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Posted: Mon Mar 17th, 2008 10:10 pm |
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Any suggestions of colleges to consider for a bright kid with severe learning disabilities (dyslexia, dysgraphia, executive function problems) and ADHD? My son did wonderfully in his PSATs (Merit Scholar territory, we hope), but he struggles in some of his classes because he's catastrophically disorganized and he takes longer to complete his work. He loves history and politics. He's a shy kid who does best in smaller groups. He's intellectual, but not a self-starter. He reads all the time, just like his mother.
We're thinking a small, nurturing LAC with a strong sense of community and an accepting attitude to quirky kids would be the best fit. Beloit, Kalamazoo, Grinnell, Macalester, Bowdoin and Bates are on his list. Any other suggestions?
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Northeastmom
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Posted: Mon Mar 17th, 2008 11:47 pm |
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I don't know if the schools on your list have it, but have you considered schools with an LD program (often an added fee is involved)? There is a book that lists them ("K&W Guide For Children With Disabilities", or some similar name).
I just wanted to add that my son's friend has dyslexia, and might have some other LDs (not sure). He would have preferred a larger school where blackboard is used more (professors posting class notes), and where professors regularly send emails to their students (reminders and information). He has access to getting copies of classnotes, but he would have preferred the above. He attends a school with 5,000 students, but thinks that larger might have fit him better.
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CardinalFang
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Posted: Tue Mar 18th, 2008 12:16 am |
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I'm open to colleges with an added-on LD program, but I just can't see my son at a big school. He'd fall through the cracks. He'd be invisible. He'd sink without a trace.
I envision, for him, a small school where the professors know the all the students and all the students know each other.
A couple of other schools we're thinking about are Earlham (he doesn't drink, so the no-alcohol policy is a plus for him) and Lewis and Clark (the location would be perfect).
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Northeastmom
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Posted: Tue Mar 18th, 2008 12:23 am |
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| I understand, but have you also considered larger schools that are student focused for the undergraduate more than a research based university?
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CardinalFang
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Posted: Tue Mar 18th, 2008 01:11 am |
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| Are there particular larger schools you're thinking of, NEMom?
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CarolynLawrence
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Posted: Tue Mar 18th, 2008 02:03 am |
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I think Northeastmom has a point. I wouldn't immediately rule out any school at this point before considering different options for comparison's sake. If nothing else, the disabilities support services at some of the larger schools with good programs may give you some important questions to ask when you visit smaller schools.
Don't get me wrong: I'm obviously a fan of small liberal arts colleges. But, while intuitively it might seem that smaller schools would always be better than a larger one for LD kids, in reality it doesn't always work out that way. Yes, the professors might know the kids on a more intimate level, but that doesn't mean they'll track down a kid who needs help if he isn't proactively seeking it out. And, some colleges (both big and small) have a stronger support program - and stronger philosophy of supporting students - than others. So, small doesn't always automatically equal better for LD kids.
Of course, much depends on the individual student, their strengths and weakenesses, their ability to proactively advocate for themself, and the level of support services they'll need. Then the key is to match what is needed with the services different colleges provide in addition to the more over-all fit with the student. As with much of college planning, there's seldom going to be a single "best" option, but rather several "good matches" that require a bit of compromise here and there.
For some students, a larger school may be the best match overall depending on his or her needs for support, and the school's programs. It's also important to look at the curriculums of different schools. If a student has trouble with lots of writing, for example, a small school like Earlham or Beloit which is heavily focused on writing throughout the curriculum might not work well as a larger school where the focus is on testing rather than papers, no matter how well the professors know the students at the smaller school. Or, students with a math LD or difficulty with foreign languages may find that a school that offers some flexibility on general distribution requirements to be a better fit.
Just for comparison's sake, and since you have some time, I'd second Northeastmom's suggestion of the K&W LD Guide. Petersons has another good guide. There is also a list of links to disabilities support programs at various schools (by no means all inclusive) here: http://www.college-scholarships.com/learning_disabilities.htm
Then, contact a few larger universities with well-established LD programs. A good one to contact is the SALT Center at the U of Arizona (http://www.salt.arizona.edu/). I'd also suggest you contact Landmark College, which specializes in helping students with LDs, and pick their brains about what a good support program should include. If nothing else, this background information will probably give you some additional questions to ask when you talk to the disabilities services director at the LACs (and I highly recommend setting up a meeting with the Disabilities Services Director at each school you visit -- Admissions offices aren't always the best people to ask. They'll all tell you that their school has "wonderful" LD support services. Go to the source, and do it in person if you are visiting campus.) You'll soon start to get a sense of the differences, and be able to identify which small schools truly have the support services that are best suited to your son's individual needs.
Also, be sure to visit, and have your son visit, the HEATH Center at George Washington University - http://www.heath.gwu.edu - they have a wealth of information and links about getting accomodations in higher education. It's really a must read for any student who will need accomodations in college.
Finally, you might contact the poster WestrnMom. She is an excellent source of information on questions parents of LD kids need to ask colleges, and has been through the process with her son.
Last edited on Tue Mar 18th, 2008 02:20 am by CarolynLawrence
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WestrnMom
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Posted: Tue Mar 18th, 2008 02:37 am |
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Check out the SALT program at University of Arizona. I originally recommended the TRIO program at other AZ schools but got some negative feedback about it from the parent of an LD student at ASU.
The University of Denver has a very thorough LD program. University of Redlands had something like 12% of their students getting some type of LD offerings when I looked at their stats in 2006. Their services are excellent.
All schools that get federal funds must offer some type of LD services, but when you see "partial services" or "full services" on sites like College Board, that is misleading. Full means everything from services for the blind, deaf, those in wheelchairs, but they may not offer as complete a program or as much time for LD students. Where those that say partial may specialize in LD or ADD/ADHD and may actually have more free hours of tutoring for week, for example, than other schools.
One good thing to ask if your son needs books read to him, is to ask if the school has a reading machine like the Kurszweil Reader. That can be a plus because the machine automatically puts all books on CD when they are fed through the machine vs having to have a live person read and record them if the student can't get copes on CD.
Last edited on Thu Jul 3rd, 2008 02:12 am by WestrnMom
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CardinalFang
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Posted: Tue Mar 18th, 2008 02:47 am |
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It's not just because of his learning disabilities that I think a small school would be right for my son. He's introverted. He doesn't make friends easily. He'd just be lost in a large school.
I'm certainly not saying that every kid with learning disabilities should be at a small school. I'm saying that he should. It's just a matter of personal fit for his particular personality.
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mom61
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Posted: Tue Mar 18th, 2008 04:40 am |
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My son also has LD/ADD and we were in a similar place last year. I wanted strong LD program. My son wasn't convinced.
The best suggestion I have is to talk to the programs. Visit and schedule an appt with the disabilities director. You really can't tell how complete a program is from a website or listing in a book.
Some of the schools we looked at Univ of the Pacific, Univ of Denver, Northern Arizona, Univ of Arizona, Willamette, Univ of Puget Sound, Redlands. He has specific indepth appts with the Directors at UOP, Willamette, Puget sound and Redlands.
Of those we were most impressed with the program at Willamette. It might be worth a look. It is a small liberal arts college in Salem Oregon. The woman who runs the program is great and we found her helpful and encouraging. If he had ended up at Willamette it would have been due to this woman.
Most schools have some sort of services. Whether you use them is up to you. My son ended up at a school that has a Disabilities Director but not a defined program. He meets with the Director and they work out what accommodations my son might need. For example a note taker. They also will help him take exams away from distractions with extra time if they have advanced notice. As far as extra help it is available at the same tutoring center as for all students. The LD students are guaranteed first dibs on available tutors. Whereas at Willamette the LD students have tutors set aside just for them.
We also found that the attitude of the staffing made a impression. For example the person at Redlands was fair. Not overly helpful. The woman at Puget Sound really helpful but honest that they weren't well equipped to help my son.
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CardinalFang
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Posted: Tue Mar 18th, 2008 04:56 am |
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My son is currently taking classes at community college (we're a homeschooling family). Their disabilities office is kind and welcoming, but one thing I hate is that each time the student has a test, he has to arrange accommodations for it at least a week in advance. Why is this up to the student? Why doesn't the student get to say initially, "I need extra time for tests," (after initially documenting the disability, of course) and then he gets it every time? It seems counterproductive to demand that a kid with ADD, who is already disorganized, is forced to be more organized than a non-disabled kid. Fang Jr has been bitten by this already several times.
So I hope that whatever school Fang Jr ends up at will not have this misfeature. I plan to talk to the disabilities office at every school he is considering.
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HImom
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Posted: Tue Mar 18th, 2008 05:42 am |
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Hi! My kids have had some health issues that have caused them to miss lots of school (about 1/2 of their HS careers). I spoke with several disabilities departments at the Us my S was admitted to, just to get a feel for how they would handle any health-related absences and was very surprised by the range of responses. One of the small schools that I really had loved when we toured point-blank admitted they would likely require S to withdraw from their U & lose all his merit aid & everything he paid them if he missed 2 weeks or more in a quarter at their school for ANY reason, including health.
The other (much larger) Us were much more understanding and promised to work with S to help him if his health caused him to miss significant amounts of school and for any other accommodation that might be appropriate for his condition. We were very pleased that he has not needed to use disability services but are glad that they have been very welling to work with him, including giving him priority housing as needed.
My S is also introverted & I was surprised that he insisted he didn't want to go to the smaller Us that I had fallen in love with during tours. The school he chose & is finishing his 2nd year at had 200 in his freshman engineering class & he's very happy there. For what it's worth, the school he's at is USoCal & the disabilities director and department there are very nice, as is the school of engineering.
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Northeastmom
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Posted: Tue Mar 18th, 2008 12:18 pm |
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| CardinalFang, I was not really thinking about specific schools. I have a friend who is a college professor. He explained the difference to me between research focused and student focused universities. I would look at some larger Us too, where there are fewer graduate school programs, and the emphasis is on teaching the undergraduate, rather than on doing research and getting published.
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outwest
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Posted: Tue Mar 18th, 2008 04:43 pm |
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whoops, duplicate post
Last edited on Tue Mar 18th, 2008 04:50 pm by outwest
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outwest
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Posted: Tue Mar 18th, 2008 04:45 pm |
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I was also going to say that a larger school will usually have much better facilities for the LD. Also, if he was involved in the LD program, that would serve as his 'small , personal attention' group. If he is a strong tester the Arizona Universities are very generous with money for those testers, too. I also agree with NE that it isn't the size of the school as much as the amount of attention he would get. I think a better thing to look at would be faculty:student ratio, class size and a lack of grad. programs.
All that said, I do think there may be some small LACs that have good LD programs, but they are not the top ones. The top schools want nothing to do with it except to say they care, but I doubt they do, unfortunately. Good luck!
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CarolynLawrence
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Posted: Tue Mar 18th, 2008 06:57 pm |
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And, "larger" doesn't HAVE to mean "Huge and impersonal." There are some smaller U's that can feel as intimate as a small LAC. And, some LACs that are somewhat larger and a bit more impersonal than others as well. 
Both of my kids also really wanted the small LAC environment. I felt it was especially important for my daughter. She was always a hard-working student in high school, taking mostly AP and honors classes, but never really a "top" student. She doesn't have an LD, but she was always (and still is) somewhat disorganized and distracted easily at times. She also really loved the community feel of her private high school. So, a small school made a lot of sense for her.
While she (and I) have been very happy with her experience at Beloit, and she has some terrific close relationships with some of her teachers, those relationships don't translate into teachers calling to remind her when a paper is due, pushing her to study when she has a test, making sure she stays on top of her reading, or giving her leeway when she screws up and forgets to do something (or sleeps through class). On the other hand, because she does have some close relationships with faculty at Beloit, it is easier for her to find help when and IF she seeks it out -- therein lies the rub because, unfortunately, just as she was reluctant to ask for help in high school, the same is true in college for her, and those close knit relationships she has with some of her teachers don't mean she is being OFFERED help without her asking for it.
I think that's true of all colleges, regardless of size or the closeness of faculty-student relationships: there is a certain expectation that the student is going to be pro-active and self-motivated about seeking out help when they need it. In short, faculty members will never substitute for a parent nagging a kid to get their act together. That is where I could see the services of a more comprehensive LD program might come in handy -- to provide that kind of one on one mentoring and oversight, not to mention someone to intervene when you can't convince a teacher to give you the specific accomodations you need without acting like it is a big pain in the you-know-where.
Socially, Beloit has been a comfortable fit for my daughter, although I am starting to see signs that she wishes she had a bit more stimulation and action socially. At a smaller school you do run into the same people all the time, which does indeed make it somewhat easier to make friendships and form a group --- but it also means that you run into the same people you don't LIKE or who don't like YOU all the time, which can add a different set of problems at times.
My son is the complete opposite of my daughter. He is the type of kid who has never met a stranger he didn't feel comfortable striking up a conversation with. And, he has never been shy about asking for, and getting, attention from his teachers. I think he has picked a good school for himself, but I wonder if he will find it a little small after the first year or so. It may help that it is in a city that will satisfy a lot of his interests and that it has a higher than average quota of strange and interesting people. We'll have to see how it pans out. To be honest, I was really surprised that he didn't want to look at mid-sized universities, such as the U of Chicago or Brown.
But, as always, that's the key: let the kid drive the boat when it comes to deciding what feels right. All we parents can really do is help them navigate.
Last edited on Tue Mar 18th, 2008 07:02 pm by CarolynLawrence
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riviera
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Posted: Tue Mar 18th, 2008 07:44 pm |
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Hi CardinalFang!
I suggest you look at Kenyon College:
http://www.kenyon.edu/x650.xml
My friend's son has dyslexia and is a freshman there. I think they have been pretty happy with the school so far (and the admission people are really nice!).
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riviera
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Posted: Tue Mar 18th, 2008 07:56 pm |
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| They also seriously looked at Whitman College and Lawrence University (he was accepted at both).
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mom61
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Posted: Tue Mar 18th, 2008 10:36 pm |
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CardinalFang- my son ended up at University of the Pacific. He must do what your son does before an exam. It is up to my son to ask for the extra time. The professor doesn't offer. The exam is given to my son by someone arranged by the Disabilities Director. The week is the amount of time they need to find someone to proctor the exam and a quiet place to administer the exam. They will do it with less time in a crunch if they can. Most times my son doesn't fill out the paperwork so he isn't getting all the help he needs. THIS IS HIS CHOICE. It is mainly due to poor executive skills but I did my time and it is now his job. First semester he struggled with one class that had lots of material. He barely passed. This semester with a similar class he from day 1 arranged to get notes from someone. He is learning. Still has a ways to go. (He has a large research paper due later in the semester for one of his classes, the professor told him last week that she suggests he make heavy use of the tutorial center)
I have heard wonderful success stories out of Univ of Arizona. We rulled it out for my son due to the fact that we were told by several people in the field that the program works great for those who have the maturity to ask for what they need.
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WestrnMom
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Posted: Tue Mar 18th, 2008 11:01 pm |
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I have to agree with those who said that you must call each school, and preferably visit their special services offices directly to make sure they offer what he needs. In our case, we found the opposite of Mom61 to be true on the days we visited. University of Redlands was extremely helpful (they have a new director which may be the difference) while at U of the Pacific we couldn't even get an appointment with the special services office when we visited.
Students who don't make friends easily might find a smaller school more attentive to their needs, but at the same time there are also going to be a limited number of students with which that student can make friends. So it's not necessarily a situation where a smaller school offers the best social environment. However, a smaller school that is known to be nurturing is going to be more sensitive to a student's needs than a large, impersonal school.
The best course of action is to do the following:
1. Have current, adequate private testing that names the disability (dyslexia, ADD vs auditory processing deficiency which is not considered a diagnosis but a term used to determine eligibility in public schools prior to college).
2. Know exactly what services your child needs. Decide which are necessities and which can be given up if they aren't offered.
3. Find out if one letter each semester is enough to obtain special test accommodations or if it must be redone for every exam (which is a pain and should not happen).
4. See where the office is located. If it's in the center of campus, near the library or computer center, that is a plus. If it's off on the outskirts your child is less likely to feel like going out there for test taking or just to talk.
5. How accessible are the staff? Will they talk to a student who drops in with an urgent request or are they booked up weeks in advance?
6. Where will your child take tests? Is the room big enough? Quiet enough? Are computers available for students who don't write well? Is there a writing lab that can be used at any time for testing or term papers?
7. Is there a special admissions process for LD students? Must your child apply separately for the LD program? If your child is turned down due to grades or test scores, will the school made an acception and admit anyway?
8. Do they offer priority registration? That is a plus, especially on a large campus.
Here are offerings at NAU:
Tutoring: Individual options: Learning strategies, Content area, Writing labs, Math labs, Study skills, Group options: Time management, Organizational skills, Content area remedial math, reading machines, tape recorders, note-taking services, oral tests, extended time for tests, tutors, priority registration, priority seating, texts on tape, exams on tape or computer, other testing accommodations
These are the accommodations at Cal Poly San Luis Obispo (which I would not recommend for a student who needs anything more than what is listed):
tape recorders, note-taking services, special bookstore section, oral tests, readers, extended time for tests, texts on tape, exams on tape or computer, other testing accommodations
Last edited on Tue Mar 18th, 2008 11:03 pm by WestrnMom
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CardinalFang
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Posted: Wed Mar 19th, 2008 12:16 am |
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Thanks, everyone, for your excellent advice.
When Fang Jr. went through the Princeton Review book to make a preliminary list of schools that sounded like fits, he only picked small LACs. This makes sense to me-- this is a kid who gets As in history and English, where he has to write papers, and Bs and Cs in math and science, where he has to memorize facts and be accurate. Small classes with plenty of discussion, reading and writing are just what he would love; large lecture classes would not be the best thing for him.
I'm fairly sure that there are colleges that don't require the student to request LD accommodations for every single test for every single course-- and we will find those colleges.
I'm also considering hiring an ADD coach for him when he's at college.
Oh, and Riviera-- Kenyon was already on our radar, but your recommendation has inspired me to check it out further.
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