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CarolynLawrence
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Posted: Wed Feb 13th, 2008 01:29 am |
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Hi All -
Those of you who are long time members know that last fall I jumped into a job as a school-based college counselor after several years of independent college counseling. It's been an interesting ride. As of today, 90% of my seniors have been admitted to at least one four-year college (most have been admitted to several), and we still have a ways to go until April 1. I thought I'd share some perspective from my experiences on both sides of the counseling desk which may perhaps help those just starting out:
1. Teenagers move at their own speed. I've said this here many times, but this is probably the *most* important thing parents (and counselors) need to keep in mind. As parents (and counselors), we're ready to go full speed ahead with college planning on our child's first day of freshman year. Most students, however, aren't ready to really take the process seriously until senior year....and some not until the middle of senior year. 
Lesson learned: as parents and counselors, our job is not to run with the ball, but rather to coach our kids so that they get to the point where they are ready to run. That takes longer for some kids than others!
2. Teenagers don't know as much as we think they do. This week, one of the top students at my school gave me his mid-year reports. When I started to put everything in the envelopes, I noticed that he had put the stamps on the LEFT-hand corner of every, single envelope. After I finished scraping off the stamps, putting new ones on, and sending off his mid-year reports, I teased him about this. He honestly had NO idea that he'd done this. I had a good chuckle over it, but then I started thinking about the other bone-headed things I've seen this year including: Essays filled with typos and grammatical errors, recommendations returned because the student hadn't written the correct college address, comments made to college reps at school presentations that would curly your hair, and deadlines missed because "I didn't know it was today!" In fact, if I had to pick one phrase that has driven me to drink in the past few months, it is "I didn't know..."
Lesson learned: Don't assume your child is functioning at the same level as an adult. That will come, but most teens aren't quite there yet. The other important lesson to take away: While we should help our kids, we shouldn't take over the process. It really is an important learning experience for them to apply to college, even if they make a few blunders along the way. (And also: Colleges are remarkably forgiving most of the time. They've seen it all)
3. Teenagers really don't "get" the money part. I've worked with students from very wealthy families and students who are very low income. I've yet to have a student actually ask me, "How much does this college cost?" I think most kids get stars in their eyes when they're looking at colleges. They see that dream school and think that a miracle is somehow going to happen and money will fall from the sky.
Lesson learned: Parents really need to be honest about what they can afford, and, even more important, sit down and show their children the differences in cost between different options, and how financial aid/merit money might play out. Kids don't do that on their own.
4. There is a college out there for everyone. I've worked with students with straight A's and terrific test scores, as well as students just scraping past a 2.0 and hoping to break 500 on the SAT. Every one of them has been surprised to discover that there are colleges that WANT them.
Lesson learned: Focus on casting a wide net. Don't immediately rule out colleges you've never heard of -- if you can, make an effort to visit and explore different options. You will be surprised to discover that there are many wonderful options for every student beyond the "US News" top 10.
5. Parents are their children's best guides. The students who end up doing best when it comes to finding the right school are the ones whose parents keep an open mind and their ears open as well. They're the ones who have parents who are FACILITATORS of the process, rather than DIRECTORS. The students who have the most trouble are those whose parents haven't quite separated out their sense of self from their children, who consciously or sub-consciously believe that if their kid gets into School XYZ it will mean that THEY are a better parent. The truth is: this is not a "Parent of the year" contest.
Lesson learned: Be supportive, offer encouragement, facilitate the process, and keep an open mind. Just make sure your kid puts the stamps on the right side of the envelope.
Last edited on Wed Feb 13th, 2008 01:34 am by CarolynLawrence
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WestrnMom
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Posted: Wed Feb 13th, 2008 10:41 pm |
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Those are good reminders about teens. It's easy to forget when they are good students that they are still teenagers and don't think or plan the same ways that we do.
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Northeastmom
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Posted: Wed Feb 13th, 2008 11:09 pm |
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| Carolyn, Thanks for taking the time to post this.
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hummingbird
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Posted: Thu Feb 14th, 2008 04:51 am |
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Very good lessons! Thank you for this great information, Carolyn.
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Alumother
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Posted: Thu Feb 14th, 2008 01:51 pm |
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| Very sweet post. Your students and their parents are lucky to have you.
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Mrs. Aardvark
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Posted: Thu Feb 14th, 2008 02:47 pm |
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Carolyn, thanks for the reassuring words.
For me, one of the most difficult things about this process is that I would like to facilitate my daughter making a thoughtful decision, considering schools and taking her time. But so far she isn't interested in participating. (Actually, I should give her credit - she has participated some, but doesn't appear to be thoughtful about it yet.)
The second part is that, your description of teens and age-appropriate behavior rings true. But most colleges seem to market to students as if they were fully functioning, mature decision makers. It leaves me with the impression that colleges' expectations for 18-year olds are very high, and that they do not see it as their job to help mold sometimes cluesless teens into thoughtful, responsible adults.
I'm glad to hear that your all your students are having such success, and I'm quite sure that your work is contributing to same!
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zippy
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Posted: Thu Feb 14th, 2008 04:00 pm |
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| This week has shown me the difference it makes when the student is ready to think about colleges. I freely admit that I have been engaged in the college process, if I am honest, probably since the day D was born! The fact that I was in school myself at the time certainly played a part. In 9th grade we looked at one college, 10th grade five or six more. Daughter agreeable but not really that interested. Whammo, PSAT results come and mailbox fills up with college material. D comes home from school runs to mailbox and gleefully sorts through the stuff and without prompting fills out the return cards on the one she likes. All her friends are comparing their mail at school everyday and laughing about some of the schools that are sending it. Tomorrow we are going to U Wisconsin to talk to some people in the dept. she is interested in. She made the appointments with them herself! Husband and I are shaking heads but happy at this turn of events. Is this our kid? Happy Valentine's Day to All!
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moewb
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Posted: Thu Feb 14th, 2008 05:03 pm |
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Wow, you've done a great job at summarizing all those intangibles. I was so impressed by this post. BTW, if there is an opening in our local area for a GC, may I submit your name? Just kidding, but your students are blessed to have you.
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Engineeringmama
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Posted: Thu Feb 14th, 2008 07:05 pm |
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Thanks for another great post.
I have a couple of my own experiences with my D this year.
On 2., beg, plead or bribe your child to let you proof read their apps. I proof read my D's common app and was surprised to find out that we spoke Estonian at home. Who knew!! I found a couple of very small mistakes but it really pays to let someone look over your app. I did use the duct tape and tried not to comment on her essays. I thought that she needed to use more emotion and express her feelings better. But she would have none of that. If she doesn't get into those schools, then so be it.
On 3., the money part. Oh boy what a hard one. My D applied to 100% meets need schools but she is just not getting it. I am telling and telling her that 100% meets need, means that they will meet what they think is our need, it may not be what the FAFSA or profile means meeting need. Also that she may not get into the school that she wants because we do need FA, she (and my H) believe that the school makes admission decisions separate from FA need and I can't believe it. I'm afraid that she won't get in because we do need quite a bit of FA because we will have two in college. Sometimes I think that it might be better not to get into her reaches because the financial burden might be so great that we will have to say no. I really wish she would "love her safety" but she's not buying into that until she sees where she gets into.
I can't wait until April 1. I wish April would never get here.
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Lupine
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Posted: Thu Feb 14th, 2008 07:17 pm |
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This was a great essay. I'm printing it out for my daughter, because I think that she'll find it as helpful as I did.
I think that the students at your school are very, very lucky to have you.
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outwest
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Posted: Fri Feb 15th, 2008 07:37 am |
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Engineeringmama, I loved your post almost as much as Carolyn's. I am more anxious about the FA for her then I am about the admission results. She seems to understand the issue in theory ("I need some money from the colleges in order to go"), but that 40K figure doesn't mean anything to her at all. I had her help with the fafsa and profile to try and bring it home, but all she saw was the yearly income and didn't get that things other then her food comes out of that.
When it comes to what she wrote on her applications, I kept thinking how much better she could make it 'if she only would...'. I just kept my mouth shut and let her do what she wanted. With seven schools applied to, something will come through for her, right?
I hate this waiting.
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Northeastmom
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Posted: Fri Feb 15th, 2008 01:07 pm |
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| Outwest, my son did not understand and still does not understand (now a college sophomore) what 20,000, 30,000, 40,000 means. He does know that $70 for one textbook is a lot of money (he lays pays for it, and we reimburse). He did understand that he should not have his heart set on one school (I told him that in the beginning of the process). I told him that we will need all of the acceptances on the table with their aid offers and compare. He had 10 acceptances, but 5 came off the table because of money. He was able to pick between 5 fine schools. We also told him from the beginning that he should only apply to schools where he felt he could be happy attending. In the end, he had 2 definite favorites.
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Consolation
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Posted: Fri Feb 15th, 2008 09:24 pm |
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outwest wrote: I hate this waiting.
I feel like one of those characters in a movie with maybe Carole Lombard and George Sanders who stalks back and forth on a verandah swilling whiskey saying, "The rain, oh God, the rain!" 
The waiting is agonizing. My current coping mechanism is that each day I get the mail in the absolute conviction that a likely letter from SOMEWHERE will be in it and put me out of my misery with the knowledge that he will be going SOMEWHERE next year. So far it hasn't happened, of course.
Naturally I do not share this with S. Every day he's been geting envelopes from schools that when opened just say, "Thanks for applying!" Torturers! It's just enough to keep it in the the forefront of one's mind. 
I know it's hard on the kids--especially those who didn't apply anywhere early or rolling or were deferred, who don't know their fate while many others do. I told one of my son's friends that when I was in HS the kids who were waiting for the more selective schools didn't hear until April 17th. We started telling people who asked about our college plans that we were going to attend St. Mary's by the Roadside. One friend said she was going to the Sewer Branch. 
Last edited on Fri Feb 15th, 2008 09:25 pm by Consolation
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outwest
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Posted: Sat Feb 16th, 2008 04:05 am |
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I know what you mean about those various letters. Today, Renee got one from Oberlin. I read it twice. "I wanted to let you know that I will be primarily responsible for handling the review and presentation of your application to the Admissions Commitee here at Oberlin. If you have questions about you application or the College in general, I hope you will write or call me..."It was a nice letter and talked about a few things Oberlin has.
She likes Oberlin a lot. She did everything they required of her including the alumni interview (it went well). After she read it she mentioned that there were a couple things she was wondering about after watching the Collegiate video on Oberlin. She is annoyed that we did not get a chance to visit it and has been pushing for this school. It just seemed so out of the way when we were dragging her around, that it was one of the ones that didn't get a visit. I think they are trying to see how interested she is in Oberlin and I totally understand that. They get thousands of applications. I guess she is not done yet.
I have changed the tone of this thread. SORRY, Carolyn!
I loved your initial posting. It is so true that they are growing up, but not fully baked yet. The period between 18-22 years old is when they get baked.
Last edited on Sat Feb 16th, 2008 04:10 am by outwest
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Engineeringmama
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Posted: Sat Feb 16th, 2008 04:01 pm |
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Thank you outwest for your kind words. This waiting is awful. Parents don't want to ask the kids but love to ask me, where is she going next year. I am so tired of saying we are waiting until April. I don't know, I feel everyone is judging and thinks that waiting is a pipe dream, that she should just make a decision now!
I took my D to an overnight prospective weekend and scholarship competition at her safety yesterday. I really would like her to at least see this school as a possibility. It has a lot of what she is looking for but of course there are some drawbacks (mostly I'm not sure of the strength of the engineering program). She really wants a small school that is not such a tech school, we'll see, I'm hoping that she has a great time.
outwest, I can really relate to your comments about Oberlin. I agonize that she didn't do everything that she could have for a couple of schools. We weren't able to visit Rice and the more she learns about it, the better she likes it. But it's such a reach and we really could not afford to fly to Houston unless she been accepted. I also panicked that she didn't apply for a music scholarship at a school that she is very interested in. Just missed the deadline and the information was buried on the website. She's so busy with senior year and there are so many different things to apply or do that some things are missed.
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CarolynLawrence
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Posted: Tue Feb 19th, 2008 01:37 am |
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Engineeringmama wrote: I proof read my D's common app and was surprised to find out that we spoke Estonian at home. Who knew!!
ROLFL Wonder whether there's affirmative action for Estonians?
As for the wait, and the changes of mind, hold tight. All will be well, and a year from now you'll be wondering what all the fuss was about.
That said, I've always thought it rather ironic that colleges aim to let applicants know by April Fool's Day.
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Canadian
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Posted: Tue Feb 19th, 2008 04:41 am |
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. I proof read my D's common app and was surprised to find out that we spoke Estonian at home. Who knew!!
............I can't wait until April 1. I wish April would never get here.
Killing myself laughing..............and feeling great empathy.
And Carolyn, my S has done the stamp thing, not to mention putting the return address in the wrong place. The email generation <sigh>.
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HImom
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Posted: Mon Feb 25th, 2008 05:30 am |
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This is a great thread--thanks for starting it Carolyn. I'm amused at the application process my S went thru. He got in a few applications with all the pieces and parts and most of the pieces and parts for the other apps. Hubby & I wonder whether he didn't purposely thwart himself so he wouldn't have to agonize of which school to select because it is decidely odd that he missed the parts (most had to do with writing an essay). Of course, the schools where he was missing parts of his app didn't admit him <surprise!> Fortunately, he's very happy where he's attending.
With D, she has so far only been interested and applied to one school as a transfer. She said that she is wholly unfamiliar with the college app process because she was generally out ill when they had college guidance, so she missed all of it. She's talking with her friends to try to get a feel for it. I've offered her books, but she'd rather gather info from her friends.
She's spoken with her HS counselor, who hsa advised her that she may do well with larger privates as a transfer, since they have more room to accept transfers. We shall see how this all evolves.
HImom
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CarolynLawrence
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Posted: Tue Feb 26th, 2008 12:21 am |
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So, here's my biggest counseling nightmare coming true: my office sent out 200+ mid-year reports over a three day period early this month. I carefully tracked where each was going and when it was put in the school mailbag.
On Saturday, I get panicked emails from two students whose had just been received emails from a particular college saying that them their mid-year hadn't yet arrived. They happened to have applied to the same school. I checked my records, yes, those were sent. In fact, I sent all of the students' mid-years (for various schools) who had applied to a particular U at the same time. Called that U, and they told me that hadn't received a SINGLE mid-year from any of the students who had applied there from our school.
All weekend, I lay awake worrying that maybe I am suffering from early dementia and somehow put those mid-years in the trash intead of the mailbag.
This morning, I ask around the office and find out that, oh yes, our accountant got a bunch of envelopes with college addresses back from the central mailroom a few weeks ago. He said they looked like they'd been post-marked from a city different than ours, which confused him, so he just held on to them for a day or two and then put them back in the mail bag.
I call all the kids in. Explain that some horrible glitch had happened in the mailroom (our school uses a central processing facility for our mail that is not in our building). Told them that they had apparently been sent to a different city near ours and post-marked there then returned.
One young lady says, "Well, that's kind of strange. I work in that city and used my employer's postage meter to put postage on the envelopes." That solves the problem of the strange post-mark noted by the accountant and, apparently, our central mailroom.
Then, I think to ask, "How much postage did everyone put on their envelopes?" Turns out not one kid applying to this well-known "top" U had put enough postage on their envelopes, not even the girl who used her employer's postage meter.
Seems the central mailroom got this stack of envelopes without the proper postage and a strange "postmark" and sent them back to the school, but not to me. They floated in limbo in the accountant's office before being resent, still without the proper postage. This, even though I had carefully written my department postal code on each envelope in case some envelopes didn't have enough postage (the central mailroom apparently were so flumuxed by the strange postmark that they didn't notice the code for this group of envelopes.)
Of course, now I know that I coulda/should WEIGHED each and every one of the 200+ mid-year envelopes being sent out on my non-existent postage scale, and then gone out and bought stamps out of my own pocket and put extra stamps on every single envelope but, heck, you tell kids to put on enough postage, you expect they'll put on enough stamps.
So, apparently dementia hasn't hit me (yet at least), but I'm now sprouting a new wave of grey hair from worrying that all of our mid-year reports had somehow vanished into thin air. And, I'll have to start saving up for that postage scale and stamps for next year.
Have pity on us poor school counselors. Sometimes when things go wrong it isn't entirely our fault.
Last edited on Tue Feb 26th, 2008 12:24 am by CarolynLawrence
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HImom
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Posted: Tue Feb 26th, 2008 12:43 am |
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Wow, Carolyn! By the way, at our kids HS, they counselor tells them to all put 3 1st class stamps on all envelopes & never gets them returned for insufficient postage. The school pays for the postage on all mid-year reports, so they don't have to deal envelopes or stamps from kids for this--it's the school's envelopes & stamps.
Glad things appear to have worked themselves out! What a lot of stress for you!
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