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onceinvincible315
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Posted: Sat Aug 18th, 2007 12:44 am |
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hi, after months of research on my part and the flooding of mail i receive daily, i finally have a somewhat concise list of possible colleges to apply to. i am not sure how well balanced it is due to my lopsided resume. anyway, here are my stats:
i am a male, from new jersey. i go to an extremely selective public high school (admission process to get in is difficult, this year we had 1,600 applicants for 120 spots) all of my classes in my high school are considered honors classes. we have no class rank. my class size is 120, 60 boys and 60 girls. we have majors in my high school, junior and senior year, such as television production and studio arts. i am a website development major. my gpa is a 4.06 out of a possible 4.5. i will be editor of the school's literary magazine and editor-in-chief of the school newspaper come this september. prior to that, i was co-editor of literary magazine since sophomore year and features editor of newspaper last year. i have taken electives such as writing for the media, where i wrote for the radio station, and creative writing. i am on the varsity tennis team, undefeated in my division but i am definately not a super star. my high school faces other smaller high schools. i attended simon's rock college of bard's young writer's workshop the summer before junior year. i attended this summer, kenyon review young writer's workshop. we had readings at kenyon review's yww and they were recorded and will be put on the kenyon review's website via podcast. i made it all the way up to the semifinals in the new jersey scholars program but got rejected after the group interview process. i also just got inducted into my school's national honor society. my downfall is my sat scores which completely shatter my chances at any selective college in america... currently, i have a 480 in math, 560 reading, and 600 writing. ugh. ugh. ugh. i have taken that wretched test twice. i will be taking it again. my other downfall is that i will only complete up to algebra 2 (honors). i was placed in a math class freshman year that went at a slower pace due to placement test before i started high school. im pretty sure that will somehow affect how college admission officiers review my level of difficulty in my course selection. anyway, here is the current list of colleges i have:
bard (number one), drew (will be visiting), dickinson, hartwick (i liked the J term aspect), goucher, hobart and william smith, ramapo college of new jersey (visited and i liked the feel of the campus), wheaton college (massachusetts)... im still up in the air about hampshire college, bowdoin, and bates...
what i am looking for a school: a beautiful campus, not in an urban area. i want small classes, internship opportunities and study abroad possiblities. i want to be an english major, maybe with a focus on creative writing, so a strong English department is a MUST! i want the students to be fun but not too much fun (drinking must not be a priority for the students) friendly, and crave an intellectual experience. i need a college that has a nice social life. oh, and my parents do not want me to go very far. ew.
anyway, thank you for reading my very long rant about what i am looking for. please tell me what you think about my list or give any possible suggestions to a college you feel would be right for me! i greatly appreciate it!!!!!
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Northeastmom
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Posted: Sat Aug 18th, 2007 02:00 am |
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| Have a look at Susquehanna. BTW, I really liked the J term at Hartwick too.
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Chedva
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Posted: Sat Aug 18th, 2007 12:46 pm |
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Goucher's a great potential school for you - they just went SAT optional.
Two other SAT optional schools you might want to look at: Union College in Schenectady, and Muhlenberg in Allentown, PA. Muhlenberg particularly is very strong in the arts; if your creative streak includes playwriting, it's a great place to be. (Muhlenberg requires an interview if you're SAT optional, and also requires test scores to consider you for merit aid.)
Have you tried taking the ACT? A lot of students find it much more straight-forward than the SAT. It does have (at least) one catch, though - to do well in the science section, you need to be able to read charts & graphs, rather than knowing "science" per se. And all schools accept the ACT instead of the SAT. The ACT is acceptable to have you considered for merit aid at Muhlenberg.
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onceinvincible315
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Posted: Sat Aug 18th, 2007 01:25 pm |
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thanks northeastmom and chedva!
northeastmom- i too love the J term at hartwick. from what i have read about the school, its 900 acres of beauty, with caring faculty and full of opportunities. the j term is so cool, being able to pack up your bags in the middle of the year and learn somewhere else is completely amazing. also, the fact that laptops are included into the tuition does not hurt either. i will take another look at susquehanna u!
chedva- i really feel goucher is a good college for me too! it has amazing internship opportunities and i have heard it has a strong writing program. i just got muhlenberg's application in the mail yesterday and my mom really likes the school. so does my english teacher. i have only heard amazing things about muhlenberg. i will definately check into muhlenberg more than i did. union college, i really havent looked into but i will now!
i think i should take the act and see how well i do on that. i think i'll be okay with the charts and the graphs. i really am not a fan of standerized testing. lol.
anyway, thank you both!!!! both of your suggestions have been helpful!
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Northeastmom
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Posted: Sat Aug 18th, 2007 05:48 pm |
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The only reservation that I have about Hartwick is their low endowment. It is quite low compared with other schools its size. I must say that I just really loved the school.
You have nothing to lose by trying the ACT. Good luck with it!
Last edited on Sat Aug 18th, 2007 06:17 pm by Northeastmom
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CarolynLawrence
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Posted: Sat Aug 18th, 2007 06:41 pm |
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Hi Onceinvincible, and welcome to the community. I sent you a Private Message - you can find it in the upper right hand corner of your screen.
I think you have a good solid list, including some of my personal favorite schools. Your grades and accomplishments seem very solid, and assuming you have taken a rigorous curriculum at your high school, I think this is a very realistic list.
Try hard to interview with most of these schools - that can make a difference. You don't necessarily have to visit/revisit to do so. The admissions officer at Goucher, for instance, was willing to interview my daughter over the phone after we couldn't revisit.
Have you been able to visit most of the schools on your list, or will you be visiting? You have a pretty wide variety in terms of campus culture on your list - Bard's student body is very different than Dickinson's, so you may also want to give that some thought as well.
Finally, you may have already considered these schools and ruled them out already, but Sarah Lawrence, Franklin & Marshall, and Gettysburg are three other test-optional colleges with strong English programs. Sarah Lawrence would be much more like Bard in terms of overall campus culture, whereas F&M and Gettysburg would have more similarities to Dickinson.
If you'd be at all open to broadening your geographic horizons just a bit, you might also look at Knox College and Lake Forest College (both in Illinois, with Lake Forest being very easy to get to from the east coast), Denison in Ohio and Lawrence University in Wisconsin. Beloit College is not test optional but tends to downplay the importance of test scores.They have an excellent writing program and a very creative student body that is more similar to Bard's. I think you would be a good candidate there.
Last edited on Sat Aug 18th, 2007 06:44 pm by CarolynLawrence
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onceinvincible315
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Posted: Sat Aug 18th, 2007 07:25 pm |
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hey carolyn! thanks so much for the advice! i know bard and dickinson have completely different social aspects but i put both on my list for their english departments. i feel i could fit in on both campuses but i am not sure which one i would prefer. i think as of right now i would choose bard-like schools even though i do have my reservations about the drug use and such. i like dickinson and similar schools because of the classic feel they seem to have.
i am glad you think i have a pretty strong list! that was really a boost! i have checked out denison, lake forest, knox, beloit, and sarah lawrence. i eliminated denison because of my experience in ohio this summer at kenyon. i know denison and kenyon are two completely different schools but i have doubts about the surrounding area and social life. i know knox college has a very strong creative writing program i was drawn to the minute i discovered it but the location.... galesburg, illinois, i don't know how isolated it is. i really like beloit's feel from all the mail they have sent me. i am not sure how well i would do in wisconsin and how my parents will feel about me going to a school in wisconsin but i like it. sarah lawrence is a very interesting school in bronxville. it was far enough from home but close enough to visit my family once in awhile. they do have a strong english department. i think i might look at sarah lawrence and beloit again! anyway, thanks again!
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warblers
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Posted: Sat Aug 18th, 2007 09:11 pm |
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Carolyn beat me to it, but Franklin & Marshall does seem like it'd be a good match. The campus is quite attractive, and the English department is very strong. There's a separate building on campus for writing, and it hosts events throughout the year.
http://magazine.fandm.edu/summer03/su03_story1.html
I have a friend at F&M studying Classics and English, and he RAVES about the strength of the departments, as well as the friendly and outgoing student body. Lancaster is a very quiet town and probably fits your "not urban" requirement.
The English/Writing program at Bennington College (in Vermont) has a great reputation. It's test-optional and puts a lot of emphasis on study abroad. The student body is similar to that of Hampshire, Marlboro, Sarah Lawrence, etc.
Last edited on Sat Aug 18th, 2007 09:14 pm by warblers
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onceinvincible315
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Posted: Sat Aug 18th, 2007 09:55 pm |
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hey warblers! thanks for the advice! i am looking at franklin and marshall's website right now and i am impressed, although i think it will quite a big reach for me (37% percent of applicants get accepted) i am surprised i have not looked at this school more in depth, i think the reason why is due to a awkward college fair moment at that booth. i asked the admissions person a pretty simple question, "can you please explain the admissions process of your school?" i thought i was a pretty simple question, the admission folk gave me a look and was like "wow, that is a pretty broad question..." and tried to explain it to me as best as he could. i was a little off put by that but i do feel that school has possiblity. as of right now, i am re-evaluating my list. i am so unsure of what place would suit what i need in the next four years. ugh.
anyway, bennington was on my list for a long time and then suddenly, i realized it is too tiny for me, i think the enrollment is approximately 800 people. i do agree it does has a strong writing program and i heard many nice things about it from my friends who visited. they said it was quaint, beautiful, and secluded. when i went to kenyon, it was quaint, beautiful, and secluded.... i sort of was thrown off by the seclusion and isolation, so i am a bit hesistant. anyway, i will definately look at it again! thanks again for your advice!!!!!!!!!!!
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CarolynLawrence
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Posted: Sun Aug 19th, 2007 05:26 pm |
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My rule of thumb is that acceptance rates shouldn't intimidate you into not applying somewhere -- the key is to be sure you have a clear idea of WHY you and a college are a particularly good match, and to express that in your application, interview, etc.
You have great grades and hopefully have taken a challenging high school curriculum. F&M is test-optional so your test scores won't work against you there. I would strongly urge you to visit, and to interview if you think it might be of interest as all of the PA Liberal Arts colleges like to know that applicants are serious about them and compete with each other for students. From the little I know about you, I think F&M would be a realistic match for you. Not a safety, but not a huge reach either.
Do also check out Gettysburg. Their English department is extremely strong as well. They also publish a well-respected literary magazine called the Gettysburg Review that publishes the works of major writers. Students can get very involved with the Gettysburg Review as interns - similar to the Kenyon Review at Kenyon. They have a writing minor that allows those interested in writing to focus on a particular genre, so be sure to check that out in addition to the English major. The town of Gettysburg is historic and pretty nice.
I really also like Goucher. Their English deparment and writing program are both very good, and they give some preference to males in admissions due to a skewed male-female ratio. I'm sure you've already heard about the fact that all students there must study abroad and the voucher they give to help pay for travel expenses.
All of these schools really emphasize fit in their admissions process - they want to see students who understand what they are all about and who have a clear idea of why they and the school are right for each other. Since you live relatively close, interviewing and visiting would be pluses in terms of your admissions chances.
Last edited on Sun Aug 19th, 2007 06:05 pm by CarolynLawrence
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CarolynLawrence
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Posted: Sun Aug 19th, 2007 05:40 pm |
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onceinvincible315 wrote: i am glad you think i have a pretty strong list! that was really a boost! i have checked out denison, lake forest, knox, beloit, and sarah lawrence. i eliminated denison because of my experience in ohio this summer at kenyon. i know denison and kenyon are two completely different schools but i have doubts about the surrounding area and social life. i know knox college has a very strong creative writing program i was drawn to the minute i discovered it but the location.... galesburg, illinois, i don't know how isolated it is. i really like beloit's feel from all the mail they have sent me. i am not sure how well i would do in wisconsin and how my parents will feel about me going to a school in wisconsin but i like it. sarah lawrence is a very interesting school in bronxville. it was far enough from home but close enough to visit my family once in awhile. they do have a strong english department. i think i might look at sarah lawrence and beloit again! anyway, thanks again!
Galesburg is a cute town, but there isn't much besides Galesburg nearby.  On the other hand, Knox is a great school with a very friendly student body and terrific English and creative writing programs. But, if Ohio wasn't for you, southern Illinois probably won't be either.
Not sure if you know this but my daughter attends Beloit so I am admittedly biased. My daughter spent her entire life before college in California and has found Wisconsin very much to her liking. I'm from New York originally, and Wisconsin to me feels very much like home. I feel like I am in upstate NY a lot of times when I visit my daughter. The city of Beloit has about 30,000 residents - it's not anything to write home about, but the campus is hopping with activity and Madison and Chicago are close enough for quick day trips. My daughter loves going up to Madison for concerts or just to hang out for the day, which is a very liberal city, and has even talked about possibly staying in Wisconsin for a few years after she graduates from college. That is something to consider as you look at schools - distance from and ease of getting to a major city. One plus with Beloit is that it is a very geographically diverse school - only about 15% of students are from Wisconsin, maybe another 10% from the Chicago area.The rest come from every state and countries around the world (large international population). So, while it has the great "midwestern friendly" vibe, you're meeting people from all over and getting different points of view. I've noticed that is something lacking in many of the Northeastern LAC's (not all of them, of course) -- many seem to pull heavily from the tri-state area and be New York-centric so you don't always get that sense of diversity. Just something to think about as you think about colleges.
Sarah Lawrence's campus is very pretty and has a great location. One thing to pay attention to is their unique curriculum approach. It really gives students a lot of flexibility to pursue their own individual interests, but it is not for everyone. For someone interested in English and creative writing, Sarah Lawrence really does deserve a close look. Again, students are more Bard-like than Dickinson-like so it is not a fit for everyone.
Back to F&M, Lancaster, where F&M is located is a very unique place - it is an historic town with old brownstones. F&M is located in a residential area of Lancaster (although you can see some industrial buildings from parts of campus) - the campus itself is quite historic, with buildings going back to the early 1800s if I remember correctly. EVerything is very well maintained and pretty. Lancaster is also in the heart of PA. Dutch country so within a few minutes you're out in rolling farmland. There's even a farmer's market on Saturdays within a short walk of campus, where the PA. Dutch come and sell produce and handgoods. The faculty at F&M is excellent - they really do care about their students, and there's enough challenge there to keep even top students busy. Don't let one weird conversation with a busy admissions person at a college fair turn you completely off.
I would not recommend re-doing your entire list, but adding a few more selective schools wouldn't hurt either. If you have earned those kinds of grades at a selective high school, you probably will be happiest at a college that has a decent amount of academic challenge.
Last edited on Sun Aug 19th, 2007 06:04 pm by CarolynLawrence
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onceinvincible315
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Posted: Sun Aug 19th, 2007 11:12 pm |
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hey carolyn! thanks again for your amazing insight. it is hard to figure out where you should go in the next four years but i feel as though i am making process. i do have concerns though about the colleges i have picked on my list... financial aid. i know bard and sarah lawrence and basicially, all private liberal arts schools are pricey. my family is middle class and i really doubt me or anyone can afford 50,000 a year tuition. that in mind, while i do love schools such as sarah lawrence, the price tag is enough to make me really not apply. my parents have told me time and time again that i must apply for scholarships and that it will be a struggle to pay for the colleges i want to go to, meaning if it is not close to being affordable, i am not going. i have realized this and i am re-evaluating my list not only on selectivity, feel, but also the financial aspect as well. it is so difficult to find schools that seem intellectually compelling with small classes that i could get into in combination with a price tag one could handle. ughhhhhhh. anyway, here is my list again, i think its revised a bit, i will include pro's and con's
bard- i have been attracted to bard ever since i attended simon's rock college of bard's yww. since the workshop was modelled after bard's three week required writer's institute, it only seemed natural to fall in love with a school that placed heavy interest on writing. the first year seminars seem amazing and the hands on atmosphere is too something absent in many colleges, so immediately i felt the puppy love syndrome for bard. with that in mind, location wise, bard would be ideal for me. even though it is in a rural area, many take the train to the city to escape the bubble. the "alternative" lifestyles are something i think i can deal with. in life, you are bound to meet people who are different than you and you learn from them. college is suppose to expose you different types of people. i am ready to embrace that. here are some cons: ugh, why is bard so darn selective?! with a less than 30 percent acceptance rate, the light at the end of the tunnel is barely glimmering. early action though has a much higher acceptance rate and since i indeed think bard would be a place i could learn and foster as a writer, intellectual, and person, i would definately apply ea. even though ea has a much more competitive pool of people, at least bard will know i am interested. my other con, the ENORMOUS price tag. ughhhhhhhhh.
drew- oh drew university. i will be visiting next week and i am really excited about it. it seems like a really good match for me! drew has been sending me information but i never really paid attention because i am one of those many new jersey teens who cannot stand new jersey. with that in mind, it makes drew easier to get into. many new jerseyians escape the confines of their state and many out of staters have not recognized drew's fantastic education. so, anyway, drew's pro's would be the supposedly beautiful campus (ill see for myself!), the internship opps in the city and all over,and the very nice english department. some con's for me: its in new jersey. the price tag is a little big but i think with financial aid, it would be OK. also, madison, new jersey is not a college town. it is suburbia but since the city is only a 30 minute trip away, it should not be that bad.
goucher- i dont know how i discovered goucher but so far, i am glad i have. the amazing internship opportunities and study abroad, i feel are uncomparable to many schools. the location is in baltimore which is nice, even though i heard of the goucher bubble. it went co-ed in 1987 and they are still having problems recruiting boys so i would probably have a better chance for admission. their english department is known as stellar. some cons would be that the campus is tiny and the social life is confined to that tiny campus which i feel is unbelievable... baltimore is right there! ugh. the price tag is high but not as high as others. i heard some people love it and some people hate it. hmmm. on the fence. i would consider this a safety school.
bennington- i just included this college on my list due in part to its strong creative writing department and stellar field work term. after graduation, i am bound to have connections for many job opportunities with the field work term. bennington is tiny though, rural vermont. the student body can be known as the hippie, indie, alternative, punk, whatever label you want to give it, which is fine. their is a bubble to this school too. the town relations also are strained. dorms seem to be like palaces. the price tag is HORRIBLE. i am not sure how well their financial aid is. ugh. but i like bennington since its similar to bard and not as ultra selective, although competitive and rigorous. campus life seems to be heavily focused around the confines of the campus. community is stressed. on the fence with this school due to price tag and seclusion.
ramapo college of new jersey- many have not heard of this really top notch public school in new jersey. it has amazing co-op programs and internships. english department is supposedly strong but definately not as strong as the english departments i am looking at. in a beautiful area, the ramapo mountains, on the border of upstate new york. dorms are nice. freshman dorms are eh but once you hit junior/senior year, they are newly furnished town houses. people are a blend of everything. 46 percent acceptance rate. its a little well kept secret in nj. cons- the social life is dull but the city is 45 minutes away. also, its in new jersey. bleh. i know, not a good reason. english department is not as strong as i would like.
wheaton college (ma) - i like wheaton because i feel it is a overlooked but strong college. it is 35 miles away from boston and 15 miles away from providence so if you get stir crazy on campus, i am sure you can escape. english department is solid. the price tag is big, not sure how well there financial aid is. the campus i heard is very pretty although it needs an upgrade for the lower campus. 41 percent acceptance rate is okay. sat optional. i think it would be a match school due to the gender imbalance and the fact its sat optional.
allegheny college- from what i read, its awesome even though it is in meadville. very close to ohio. allegheny looks very nice via virtual tour. student body is intellectual. all students have a major and a minor, take additional classes in third area of interest. they stress different combinations of learning. the price tag is not as bad as others. not sure how well financial aid is. campus life... its sort of in the middle of nowhere.
hobart/william smith- every time i go on their website, i just want to be a part of the school. from what i have seen via pictures, the campus is gorgeous. academics seem solid, creative writing was mentioned as a strong program through the fiske guide of colleges. the student body is different from what other schools i have listed, much more preppy but i do not think every single person there is a prep. there are bound to be others. anyway, it doesnt bother me. sports heavy, and geneva seems to be an industrial city. a big party school. eek. on the fence about this school.
hartwick- im not sure if it is still on my list or not. im debating. i think it would be a good, solid safety school for me. its in oneonta, small city with restaraunts. near suny oneonta. J term sounds amazing and laptops included in tuition is a plus. the campus is hilly although beautiful. harsh in the winter. student body, i am not sure how academic they are. the low endowment too is a question mark. really not sure about this school. maybe i should cut it.
dickinson- so, i had bard and dickinson on my list and they have two different personalities. i like to think i would fit in both. i heard dickinson campus is classic, beautiful. strong with study abroad. they just added a minor in creative writing. strong liberal arts school with a horrible price tag. it is in carlisle which isnt too far from civilization. i read somewhere a nickname for this school was drinkinson, drinking= not cool. preppy student body but that does not bother me. hmm. 41 percent acceptance rate which means its competitive. they like well rounded students or so i am told. might be a good school for me.
sarah lawrence- sarah lawrence, a maybe, maybe not. so, on paper, it seems pretty awesome. its in bronxville, so it is far enough from home, not in new jersey, but close enough i can visit. heard its beautiful. student body, mostly female, which leads to me questioning if it would be a good school or not for me. writing is SO STELLAR. it is extremely selective, big and lengthy application. campus life seems to be the city but sometimes the city is suffocating. REALLY EXPENSIVE. i dont think ill apply here. 50,000 dollars a year, regardless of financial aid, regardless of how solid the school is, is ridiculous. i know you must maintain a school, but come on, who is going to pay 50,000 dollars a year?! ughhh.
anyway, sorry for the rant. i am still confused but at least i know the pros and cons of each. still need to look at the others you mentioned. thanks!!!!
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CarolynLawrence
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Posted: Mon Aug 20th, 2007 02:50 am |
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onceinvincible315 wrote: hey carolyn! thanks again for your amazing insight. it is hard to figure out where you should go in the next four years but i feel as though i am making process. i do have concerns though about the colleges i have picked on my list... financial aid. i know bard and sarah lawrence and basicially, all private liberal arts schools are pricey. my family is middle class and i really doubt me or anyone can afford 50,000 a year tuition. that in mind, while i do love schools such as sarah lawrence, the price tag is enough to make me really not apply.
The first thing to understand is that there is the list price, and the price you and your family will end up paying. That price is what matters, and it will be dependent on many factors, including your desirability to the schools you apply to, the school's financial aid policies, and, of course your family's financial picture.
Have your parents sat down and actually run the numbers through one of the online calculators to see what their Estimated Financial Contribution might be for federa; financial aid. That will give you a ballpark to work with. Then, you'll need to ask lots of questions of every school -- and NOT just the privates, either. A few very important questions are:
1. Does the school guarantee to meet 100% of demonstrated need (I recently posted a list of such schools here - Beloit does guarantee to meet need, not sure about the others on your list. I will try to give you the link to that discussion if I can find it)
2. Does the school use just the FAFSA or also the PROFILE? These are terms that your parents need to know and understand in order to get an idea of how their assets and incomes may be treated by different schools.
3. What percentage of students who have financial need get 100% of their need met?
4. What percentage of students receive MERIT scholarships (no need required) and what are the requirements for merit scholarships? If your family is unlikely to get much need-based aid, this is a particularly important question.
6. How desirable are you to the individual colleges on your list and how closely do you match the merit scholarship requirements. Keep in mind that *many* liberal arts colleges these days are anxious to recruit males with strong academic backgrounds, so you have that going for you. Schools like Dickinson, Goucher, Beloit, Hartwick, Hobart & William Smith as well as some of the other schools you've mentioned do offer merit scholarships and can also be good with financial aid based on need as well. Bard only offers merit scholarships for science and (I think) music majors so unless you qualify for need based aid there, yes, it will probably mean you'll be paying more.
It is critical that you ask each school directly what the cut-offs are for merit money, especially at the SAT optional schools. For instance, in the past, Goucher gave nearly everyone with a 3.5 GPA/1200 m/r scores a merit scholarship of up to $16,000 - about half tuition. But now that they have gone SAT optional, you need to see what they will do if you don't submit scores to them (this goes for other schools on your list as well). At Beloit, everyone above a 3.5 or so GPA and certain test scores are also automatically considered for merit, and their awards, although about the same as Goucher's, actually go farther because Beloit, like many midwestern schools, is cheaper to begin with.
This is one of the reasons why it really probably would be to your advantage to (1) take the ACT and (2) take the SAT one more time focusing on getting your math score up -- doing so will likely increase your chances of merit money at some schools.
But this is the bottomline: You need to get your parents to do the work to see what their EFC may be and how comfortable they feel with it -- don't just cross your fingers and hope the financial side will miraculously fall into place. You and your parents need to get smart NOW about all the little nitty gritty details. Next April, when the fat envelopes start coming in will be too late.
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Pye
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Posted: Mon Aug 20th, 2007 02:51 am |
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Nothing new to add here but just wanted to echo those others who recommend Goucher to you-- I think it would be a good choice for you, also Allegheny and Drew belong on your list.
Good Luck!
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onceinvincible315
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Posted: Mon Aug 20th, 2007 03:16 am |
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hey carolyn and pye!
carolyn- your advice has been more than helpful. i will definately talk to my parents about the whole financial aspect soon. there is no doubt at all about me taking the sat again, its happening. maybe the third time is the charm! i will take the act in october! anyway, thanks again! i know the financial part will not happen overnight. i now know how stressful it is to apply to college! there is just so much that has to be done in such little time. by the time i blink, it is going to be january! midwestern schools do have cheaper tuitions and i think better financial aid. lake forest and knox have very solid financial aid and scholarships available as far as i know. i am just maxed out emotionally already by this process and its not even september. but the good thing is, all of this will be over soon enough!
pye- thanks for your input on goucher, allegheny, and drew. i think they are here to stay for now!
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onceinvincible315
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Posted: Mon Aug 20th, 2007 01:26 pm |
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update.
so my mom and i did the efc calculation on college board and this is what happened:
federal methodology results- parents's contribution : 13, 488 student's contribution= 0
total estimated fm contribution = 13,488
institutional methodology results - parents' contribution for student- 6,812 student contribution- 1,550
total estimated- 8,362
... okay, so when my mom saw "13,488" she sort of freaked which i can completely understand since she also has to pay 7,000 dollars a year for my sister's high school tuition. anyway, since i did the efc calculation, where do i go from here? do i subtract it from the final comprenhensive fee of the school and then see how much of a financial aid package i must get? trying to find schools that guarantee to meet 100 percent of demonstrated need is difficult. not many do, well especially on my list. i think i should drop some of my schools that i know i wont be able to afford even with financial aid and really try to find some good, quality schools that will be kind with financial aid and merit scholarships, maybe more midwestern schools like the college of wooster or ohio wesleyan. anyway, yep, this is where i am at so far. at least its progress.
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jocelynDAD
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Posted: Mon Aug 20th, 2007 05:09 pm |
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Hold on for a second.
EFC is just that ESTIMATED Family Contribution. The key word is estimated!
Nothing is guaranteed in this process, most especialy the foggy area of Financial aid.
Factually, your SAT scores will not get you a significant amount of Merit Aid from most of the college/university that you have mentioned.
Possibly, the combination of GPA and SAT might get a minor ($6-9,000) at one or two of the less competitive (selection wise) on your list. (Goucher/Hartwick).
Meeting the Need portion is the tricky part. Example, let's say this is the cost scenerio at your selected college:
Tuition/Room and Board - $34,000 to 38,000 (the Eastern schools would be about $3-4,000 higher), books/etc - $1,500, travel - $500-1,000, living expenses $900 - 1500 Total probably expense for one year at college is: $37,000 - 42,000.
EFC is $14,000, college offers merit scholarship of $6,000 and grant (need based) of $15,000, loans of $5,000 and work study of $2,000. This would be a very good package in today's climate.
Most likely is that there would be no Merit Scholarship and the loan package would be closer to $10,000 because this is how it would be calculated by many colleges:
EFC: $18,000, student $2,000 (from summer employment), Grant: $12,000, work study $2,200, loans: balance (from $3000 to whatever is missing).
The EFC is an estimate and colleges have supplemental froms or use Profile (from College Board) to make their own assesssment of the EFC.
Finally, the financial information as to loans, grants, scholarships etc usually does not get to the student until March in most cases. Since most of the Eastern colleges are more expenisve than their mid west counterparts (California private schools are equally expensive as East Coast schools), it could be as high as $50,000 (Sarah Lawrence and Bard would be in that range).
BYW, your GPA is good and your SAT scores are good, however you are competing in a very pressure filled atmosphere and against your peers whom are often with higher SAT scores and equally as good GPA's and EC's.
Ergo, while you should be able to academically compete in college at any of the schools on your list, getting into most of those colleges is a numbers game that is tilted against you. Tilted against you in moany ways, most particularly in the financial area. There would be limited rationale at most of the colleges on your list (at present) to want to give you 100% of your need from the EFC point. There is only so much $$$ available and factually, the ''better'' prospect is in line to get more consideration for $$$.
I would suggest you look at the following colleges:
Goucher (my W graduated class of '73)
Allegheny (S4 graduated class of '94)
McDaniel (Maryland)
Juniata, Susquehanna, Elizabethtown (Penns)
Knox, Lake Forest (Illinois)
Beloit (Wisconsin)
Read their websites, check out their Merit Scholarships, look at the class of 2009/2010 Profiles so that you can gauge your probability of acceptance and financial aid.
Do the same with the colleges on your current list and compare.
If you are the first child in your family - your parents have to get aware really fast as to the $$$ realities. BTW, the Profile and some college's supplements might give consideration to the HS tuition (7,500) in their assessment (however many will not), but FAFSA only schools will definitely not consider this expense at all.
Last edited on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 05:11 pm by jocelynDAD
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onceinvincible315
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Posted: Mon Aug 20th, 2007 07:31 pm |
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thanks jocelyn dad for your advice. i am really not expecting 100 percent need to be met for me, however, the price for a college education is ridiculous and trying to find schools that will have a decent tuition after financial aid is difficult. anyway, i already know my atrocious sat scores are going to stop me from any competitive school, that is why i am focusing on sat optional schools because not only does this work in my advantage, as those results are not consulted into the process, but i can further exemplify my strong writing skills in analytic essays which most of the schools require in favor of the sats. my scores will improve though and i am taking the act, so i still have a shot. i am very hopeful i will wind up in a place where i am academically challenged and happy.
i am not expecting a merit scholarship. i know the grim reality. no need to tell me more. the reason i guess i am reaching higher with my sat optional schools is because i feel with my entire high school career taking honor courses, my leadership roles in literary magazine and newspaper, going to selective young writers programs during the summer, community service projects, and solid GPA, i have a shot like anyone else. i did not work this hard in high school to settle for a school i will not be challenged academically. just because i do not have the right "numbers" for these schools does not mean i should not give it a go.
in my high school, my peers have no idea what a liberal arts college is. they either go to yale or rutgers. when i went to kenyon college during the summer, they had no clue what kenyon was at all. they thought i was going to kenya. =) i feel as though if i have solid safety schools, good match schools, i can try for my reaches. i am already distraught over my sat scores and the whole concept of sats. this is why my focus is on SAT optional schools because i feel without the scores, i am a good candidate for admission at some very good colleges.
goucher is definately remaining on my list for sure, i already came to that conclusion. i feel i would do very well there and i would be competitive for admission, not only because of my grades and being SAT optional, but because i am a boy and they are in need of few XY chromosomes. allegheny, right now, would be a reach school for me because of my sat scores, however once i get my scores up and package myself well, i think it is a very nice option to have. allegheny is very serious about academics which i love. i am on mcdaniel's mailing list, i am unsure about their english department. after reading some of elizabethtown a few months ago, i ruled it out. susquehanna has a very nice creative writing program that i will look into more. juniata, i feel is heavily based around the sciences.
anyway, thanks for the advice. it is always welcomed.
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Northeastmom
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Posted: Tue Aug 21st, 2007 03:36 pm |
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Your SAT scores are really not bad. Your math score is just 20 points below "average", showing slight weakness. Your gpa is such a strength. I like Jocelyndad's advice.
As far as endowment: I really don't know if one needs to be overly concerned, but I feel that I should point out that Elizabethtown, Lake Forest, and Hartwick seem to have quite small endowments. Lake Forest has been known to be quite generous with financial aid (not something that I would expect from a school with an endowment of about 61.2 million. Etown's is about 44.8 million, and Harwick's is 59.4 million.
Apply to some financial reaches, and admission reaches, but make sure that you have safeties in both areas covered.
I just wanted to add that I find you to be so courteous in thanking each of the posters who respond. I just wanted to comment on the fact that you are so well mannered, and I think that you have assets to offer any school you choose to attend.
I am editing this now. Don't rule out Etown so quickly. I cannot speak to endowment, and I don't know why you ruled it out, but I know of a student that is a current junior at Etown. She loves it, and has found the academics to be very challenging. She was never a slacker, and always a good bright student. I remember her working so hard while in hs (her brother was a friend of my son in middle school).
Last edited on Tue Aug 21st, 2007 03:45 pm by Northeastmom
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onceinvincible315
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Posted: Tue Aug 21st, 2007 09:27 pm |
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aw, northeastmom, your post made me smile. thanks for the encouragement. sats have been the biggest struggle for me. the first time i took that test, my math score was a horrible 420. the 480 is not so bad but compared to others in my high school and what i expect out of myself, i know i can do better. my psat scores were lackluster too.. a disappointingly low 149 which translates to 1490. so at least a 1640 does get me into some schools, barely. i just get so upset thinking about how the sats are limiting and confining me. the test has some missing angles you must figure out and arduous reading passages that restrict what you feel the author is trying to get at. as someone who is into creative writing, the whole "what is the author getting at" bothers me greatly. how can you assume one is trying to get at specific something when an author's intent is to broaden this experience to appeal to a reader's own thoughts? everyone has a different perspective when reading a piece of literature. one could read something as completely funny and another, as something serious. ugh, sorry, i had to vent about my loathing of the sats. i really admire the colleges who stand up against the test, seeing students as more than just numbers, but as students who had to work hard through high school. last point, everyone stresses the importance of the sats, a single four hour test, how it predicts success in college... isn't that what a high school education for? your performance preparing you to succeed in higher levels of education?
my biggest dilemma right now is trying to find schools that fit me. i feel appeal towards two, completely different types of schools.
school 1... the quirky and different student body set at a beautiful campus, alternative learning structure focused on discussions and research. most of these schools are known as the "hippie" schools and some students rely on drugs and such which is a big turn off. the schools with the quirky student body also seem to have the best creative writing and english departments. they also seem to have loads of fun activity wise and their student body are very intellectual and strive to learn for the sake of learning.
school 2... the traditional, preppy student body set at a beautiful campus, structure of class has discussions but is more main stream in focus. focus is good, internship opportunities would be plentiful. these preppy student bodies also seem to flutter around the frat/sorority thing and that is definately not me. these schools too have some of the best creative writing and english departments..
so this is my dilemma, which type of school would i fit at better? the locations must be around new jersey, not in new jersey. lol. i promised myself i would get out of this state because i need something new yet i am considering two new jersey schools because they are solid and are far enough from home.
what i am looking for:
suburbs, maybe even rural but by human contact. i need a target or a walmart, some restaurants, bowling alley, things to do, at least in driving distance. a small city would be good. needs to be in the northeast. i need something to do on the weekends instead of staring at my dorm room walls.
strong, strong, strong, english departments. must have strong career services because it is essential to build a resume before you leave college and create contacts to help you get a step ahead of the competition.
student body should be intellectual, laid back, and not just focused on partying and drugs. college isnt for that. they should be friendly and open. i want lots of things to do on campus.
campus must be pretty, tree lined and such. i am not going to spend my four years in a place that looks like prison. i am sorry, but this matters to me. if you are going to spend all of this money, at least have a nice appearance. also, it cant be surrounded by cornfields.. i loved kenyon but i was going crazy.
student/teacher ratio matters to me. i want to be able to have a relationship with my teacher and talk about things discussed in class. no large lecture halls. the size of the school should be small/medium sized, not minute, like marlboro or wells.
financial aid and tuition matters a lot. i am looking for a reasonable tuition with decent financial aid. my family should not go broke paying my college tuition.
ohh, and since you should know me a bit better.... here are some things are about myself that define me... i am six foot four and that is what everyone mentions when they first meet me, how tall i am and that i should play basketball. i hate basketball. i am not aggressive, argumentative, or abrasive. i am a perfectionist and that is probably one of my biggest flaws. my passion is writing and it will always be. i know having a career in writing is extermely risky but if you dont follow your passion, you lose sight of yourself. i am never satisified with the state of things. i listen to my ipod for hours, almost attached to the hip =). i have a small group of close friends. i am happiest when surrounded by people i enjoy. pressure is what i put on myself. getting into a good college is probably the most pressure i felt besides tennis season. i get things done on time and i am open to different ideas and approaches.
um, anyway, i am definately going to apply to financial and admission safeties. i think my financial safety at this point is ramapo college of new jersey, admission wise as well since my high school is well connected with the college. i am just trying to feel my way around the many options i have for schools. i will look at e-town again. every time i look at a college, i find the really good pros and then the really bad cons which make me wonder if i do fit.
endowments do worry me a bit because of antioch college in ohio. they had a relatively small endowment and shut down. i do not want to place myself in a situation where that could possibly occur. i would be devasted.
random but, does anyone have more information on wheaton college in massachusetts and hobart/william smith? i think wheaton would be a nice match school but maybe not. not so sure. hobart and william smith seems to be a good safety/match school for me... since there sat optional. but again, not sure.
thanks again!
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