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outwest
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Posted: Sun Dec 16th, 2007 05:54 am |
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Consolation, After the sting wears off, I hope in retrospect you are proud that he was not rejected straight out. That says that he is good enough for them, but they want to mull it over. The early applicants are often the very strongest. At least, they are the most on the ball.
In the mean time, may I suggest Pomona College? They just announced that with this admissions round they will be offering aid packages with NO LOANS. They are jumping on the bandwagon with the other big boys. Since I remember you mentioning that he would need a lot of aid they meet 100%. A small school like Pomona may not be an admissions safety, but it might be a financial safety.
There is no harder time in a teens life then senior year. Give him a hug and boost him up. He sounds like a great kid. Have an unbiased, honest person look at his essay. Search for any sense of it not being genuine or anything that may sound arrogant. If it is good, forget it and move on. Forget about the deferral, too.
He should be able to gain a second wind for winter break applications. I know my D is gearing up for it! Take up a couple schools on their free applications if you apply through the common app. Most teachers will not have any trouble with mailing off their recommendations that they wrote before. Nothing helps the sting better then a stack of fat envelopes to choose from.
I look forward to slogging it out until April with you. 
Last edited on Sun Dec 16th, 2007 06:02 am by outwest
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Wendy (wjb)
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Posted: Sun Dec 16th, 2007 01:37 pm |
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Consolation --
I'm sorry about your son's deferral. It's hard when our kids don't get what they want and what we so deeply want for them.
I want to explain the concept of "Tiers." I think you're unintentionally raising a red flag by misusing the term "Third Tier."
The term “Third Tier” is a piece of US News nomenclature that typically refers to very, very local master’s universities that offer no PhD programs.
Here’s basically how the US News ranking system works: US News does not place into any tier the Liberal Arts Colleges or the National Universities (schools with Ph.D programs) it ranks. There are 124 National Universities, starting with Princeton and ending with Michigan Technological Institute. There are 122 Liberal Art Colleges, starting with Williams and ending with Randolph-Macon College. But then there is another category of universities that US News ranks. These are the “Master’s Universities” – schools that offer UG and Master’s programs, but no doctoral programs. There are 574 universities nationwide in this category, and they are ranked within four geographic areas—North, South, Midwest, and West—because, in general, they tend to draw students heavily from surrounding states/communities. It is these Master’s Universities for which US News has created the much maligned “tiers.” From the US News website’s explanation of the ranking for Master’s Universities:
"Top Schools:
The top 50 percent of schools in this category, ranked numerically
Tier 3 Schools:
The next 25 percent of schools in this category, listed alphabetically
Tier 4 Schools:
The bottom 25 percent of schools in this category, listed alphabetically"
(I don’t have a clue why no Tier 2 exists.)
So anyway, when you label Kenyon or U of Rochester as a “3rd Tier school,” you are effectively putting those schools (which are actually in NO tier) in the same category as what is, for all practical purposes, a local college. (For example, Tier 3 and 4 schools in Chicago include Roosevelt and Northeastern Illinois University.)
Hope this helps, and my best to your son.
Last edited on Sun Dec 16th, 2007 01:38 pm by Wendy (wjb)
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Consolation
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Posted: Sun Dec 16th, 2007 05:53 pm |
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Wendy (wjb) wrote: Consolation --
I'm sorry about your son's deferral. It's hard when our kids don't get what they want and what we so deeply want for them.
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So anyway, when you label Kenyon or U of Rochester as a “3rd Tier school,” you are effectively putting those schools (which are actually in NO tier) in the same category as what is, for all practical purposes, a local college. (For example, Tier 3 and 4 schools in Chicago include Roosevelt and Northeastern Illinois University.)
Hope this helps, and my best to your son.
Thank you.
But before anyone decides to take me to task for supposedly insulting their favorite school, I would like to point out that I did not in fact "label" Kenyon or the U of Rochester a "3rd Tier school." I will also state yet again that the fact that I am urging him to apply to these places is evidence to any rational person that I think well of them.
Obviously--and I guess I have to point out again, I have clearly said so earlier--I knew my S's chances of getting in either SCEA or RD were slim. I used that precise term. Not being an idiot blinded by a "sense of entitlement" I am well aware of the weaknesses as well as the strength of his application. It would be nice to not have to worry for another 5 months, but those are the breaks.
Enough. To quote Richard Nixon--and I can't believe I'm doing so--this subject would benefit from some "benign neglect."
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CarolynLawrence
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Posted: Sun Dec 16th, 2007 10:21 pm |
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| Hang in there, Consolation. The game is far from over. I know things look cloudy right now, but until all the cards are out on the table, no one really knows how things will end up. Treat yourself well, hug your son, and think positively. It's hard, but that is what I am trying to do at this point. My son told me this morning that my job is to visualize positive outcomes for him, not wallow in worry. He's right.
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riviera
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Posted: Mon Dec 17th, 2007 03:29 pm |
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Consolation, my son didn't want to look at midwest schools but my daughter is different, not afraid of the cold. So I think I'll have her consider Carleton and Grinnell. I think they are really good schools with a lot of happy students.
Last edited on Mon Dec 17th, 2007 03:30 pm by riviera
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outwest
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Posted: Thu Jan 3rd, 2008 04:46 am |
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Consolation, What is your son's final list? I have heard so many schools thrown out there, I was wondering what the end result was. I know that my daughter has waded through probably upwards of 40 schools and visited a number of schools that she then dropped off the list. Her final list is very pared down and each one has a specific reason she chose to keep it on her list- she ended up with 8, all LACs (three of them are womens colleges). Where did he finally choose?
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Consolation
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Posted: Thu Jan 3rd, 2008 06:57 pm |
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I'll share the list, but I want to say up front that I am not asking for advice or chances and do not want to hear from certain people about how the selection of schools shows that anyone in our household is suffering from an excessive sense of entitlement or delusions of grandeur or anything else of that nature. Everyone in our household is fully aware how difficult it is to get into these schools. Schools are on, or not on, this list for various reasons, many of which are out of my control, and there are a couple more with later deadlines that may yet be added.
In no particular order:
University of Chicago
University of Rochester
Yale
Harvard
Dartmouth
Williams
Pomona
Swarthmore
Bowdoin
Georgetown
Carleton
There is another school where we're not sure whether his application will be accepted, because internet problems caused him to meet the deadline by a few minutes,and two more (with 1/15 deadlines) that meet the criteria, are *slightly* easier to get into, and may still be added to the list.
When it came down to it, the ideal was a top notch liberal arts education, an intellectual atmosphere, and a medium-sized undergraduate population, preferably in or near an interesting and livable city that would provide a further dimension of growth and experience. A number of excellent schools located in little towns more or less in the middle of nowhere were, upon consideration, removed from the list, while some others that might meet that description remain.
The Yale adcom consulted by his GC said that he remembered his application, that they went over it for a "long time"--I realize that this can mean 10 minutes or less-- and that there was nothing wrong with it. He used the word "crapshoot" to describe the difference between deferral and acceptance. This leads us to think that he has a decent shot at the places that interest him, but that it is wise to cast a wider net of suitable schools, but not to add schools that really are of little interest simply because they are easier to get into.
It is what it is.
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CarolynLawrence
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Posted: Fri Jan 4th, 2008 12:40 am |
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Good luck to your son, Consolation!
Several of my students had the same internet problem. They contacted the schools where their applications arrived a few minutes past the deadline (including several of the ones where your son is applying) and were told that it wouldn't be a problem. Hopefully, that will be the same for your son!
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Consolation
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Posted: Fri Jan 4th, 2008 01:11 am |
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CarolynLawrence wrote: Good luck to your son, Consolation!
Several of my students had the same internet problem. They contacted the schools where their applications arrived a few minutes past the deadline (including several of the ones where your son is applying) and were told that it wouldn't be a problem. Hopefully, that will be the same for your son!
Their website wouldn't accept it at all. (The preliminary part of the app had been filed for at least a month, possibly two.) He saved the application as a PDF, printed it, and tried to fax it. No luck: the fax alternated between not picking up and declaring that there was a "network problem" and the call didn't go through. He then emailed the PDF as an attachment. All this between midnight and 1 am. As we said we would in the email, we mailed the hard copy on 1/2 with an explanatory cover letter. (He subsequently got an automatic response email stating that they didn't accept emails with attachments.) I'm hoping they accept it, but we still don't know. If they don't, they don't. There are other schools.
As you can imagine, I was not as philosophical about this at 2 am after hours of struggling with recalcitrant web sites and crashing internet connections!  He has two applications left to finish, and I expect them to be completed this weekend. No more last minute horror shows.
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outwest
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Posted: Fri Jan 4th, 2008 02:35 am |
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It is an enviable list, Consolation's son! I feel for him with the deadline issue, too. My D's EA to Lewis and Clark was sent at 10:30pm Pacific time. The deadline was midnight, so she thought she had an hour and a half to spare . When she got the confirmation it listed November 2nd as the submission date! Apparently, the common app. is back East somewhere. Hardly fair for my 'in under the wire' kid. She fretted and stressed and worried, but in the end they took it. Maybe the common app. gives the colleges the time and they figured it off of that. Whatever happened, she did get in.
I suspect he will have a few offers from those excellent schools. I was thinking about him. Perhaps he is like my D. She refused to apply to the UC's. She stated firmly that if she couldn't attend one of her other schools that she would just go to a community college for a couple years an transfer in. Having a middle D who did just that, I knew it was a perfectly viable, although less then ideal, situation. So, that is what she is doing.
I am rooting for Pomona for obvious reasons.
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Consolation
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Posted: Fri Jan 4th, 2008 03:32 am |
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outwest wrote:
I am rooting for Pomona for obvious reasons.
Good luck to your D! If my S does end up at Pomona, I look forward to getting together in the future for lunch or maybe even--gasp!--drinks! 
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Chedva
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Posted: Fri Jan 4th, 2008 12:40 pm |
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| OK, if we're all weighing in, I have to root for University of Rochester! My d loves it there, and I'd love to have someone to meet during parents' weekend (or to "foster" your son if it's too far for you to travel)!
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Consolation
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Posted: Fri Jan 4th, 2008 02:36 pm |
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Chedva wrote: OK, if we're all weighing in, I have to root for University of Rochester! My d loves it there, and I'd love to have someone to meet during parents' weekend (or to "foster" your son if it's too far for you to travel)!
That would be nice! One of the great things about this board is that we now all have virtual buddies with connections to so many far flung schools. I didn't realize that you have a d there. My S knows several kids from CTY who went there and also love it, which is one reason why he was interested in it. We haven't actually been able to visit it, although we camped for a week at the big state park just south of Rochester. It's a lovely area. (Coincidentally, his first violin teacher was an Eastman grad.)
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Chedva
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Posted: Fri Jan 4th, 2008 03:03 pm |
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| If he wants to continue studying violin, he might be able to take lessons with an Eastman graduate student for free! Auditions are the first week of school.
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Consolation
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Posted: Wed Apr 2nd, 2008 02:36 pm |
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Well, it's all over but the decision on where to go, and he managed to build a nice little house, with acceptances at:
One floor
Two walls
A ceiling
A roof (plus two roof waitlists, both of which he will likely decline)
And I don't know where Pomona would fit into Descartes' metaphor (probably a ceiling or a roof, I would think).
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riviera
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Posted: Wed Apr 2nd, 2008 09:27 pm |
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| Consolation, yes, your son's college list was nicely built after all! It is interesting to notice the similar results that our 2 sons got for the colleges they had in common (Yale, Swarthmore, Pomona)
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