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riviera
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| Joined: | Tue Jan 30th, 2007 |
| Location: | California USA |
| Posts: | 105 |
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Posted: Sat Nov 17th, 2007 12:16 am |
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Yale uncertain about early yield:
http://www.yaledailynews.com/articles/view/22480
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Consolation
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| Joined: | Mon Apr 9th, 2007 |
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Posted: Sat Nov 17th, 2007 02:21 am |
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To make matters worse, EA apps at the University of Chicago are up a whopping 42%! And Georgetown something huge also.
Things are going to be wild this year...
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CarolynLawrence
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Posted: Sat Nov 17th, 2007 03:21 pm |
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Consolation,
Make sure you show those numbers to your son. Maybe that will help nudge him about the safer bet schools. 
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Consolation
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Posted: Fri Dec 14th, 2007 09:17 pm |
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Well, he was deferred. He hasn't looked yet, but he said I could as long as I didn't tell him anything.
His classmate who also applied SCEA is interested in engineering, which should help his chances, since Yale has just expended a lot of money on that and is looking to beef it up. Don't know how he did, but I hope S doesn't have to bear with being patronized for the rest of the year.
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Alumother
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Posted: Fri Dec 14th, 2007 09:56 pm |
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Aw. Consolation I am really surprised. I thought your son was in.
Not too helpful at this point. Just remember a deferral at Yale in some cases means a future acceptance at Yale, a future acceptance at another equally wonderful school, or, a future acceptance at an equally wonderful but for different reasons school.
It's a good opportunity to let the kids loosen up on their applications and apply to a bunch of places and enjoy the process a little more.
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limner
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| Joined: | Sun Jul 16th, 2006 |
| Location: | Tennessee USA |
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Posted: Fri Dec 14th, 2007 10:09 pm |
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Oh, Consolation, I'm so sorry. I know it's hard, having gone through the same experience last year.
My dad had a theory that setbacks build character, but, as he used complain, none of us want to toss setbacks into our children's paths. Of course, life does a pretty good job of doing that all on its own.
Things work out; my son is extremely happy at his school, and I have difficulty imagining him at the one that deferred then rejected him.
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CarolynLawrence
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Posted: Fri Dec 14th, 2007 10:41 pm |
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| I'm so sorry Consolation. I know it is a let down, not just for your son, but for you as well. I am a firm believer that we ALL end up where we are supposed to be in life. It may not make sense at the time, but years later, looking back, it often does. And, since he was deferred, there is still hope. Hang in there, Consolation.
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jocelynDAD
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Posted: Fri Dec 14th, 2007 11:08 pm |
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Consolation:
Hard on you, understand how you feel when your child is disappointed.
Yale even SCEA is a hard point to make (using a gambling term).
According to one poster on CC, they accepted more than they rejected and deferred over 3000 students. Although where there is life there is hope, it would be the best route for your S to apply to other school ASAP.
Being Deferred at Yale is absolutely nothing to be ashamed about, as another said, being Deferred at Yale is a clear indication that Yale recognizes his potential and fitness for Yale, unfortunately, so many are qualified and there is a finite number of placements available.
Good Luck!
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Consolation
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| Joined: | Mon Apr 9th, 2007 |
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Posted: Fri Dec 14th, 2007 11:23 pm |
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I've written and deleted about 10 posts.
Suffice it to say that I'm having a hard time being a good sport.
I guess he'd better start looking at third tier schools or figure out how to cut 5 or 10 seconds off his time in the 800.
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riviera
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| Joined: | Tue Jan 30th, 2007 |
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Posted: Fri Dec 14th, 2007 11:56 pm |
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| Consolation, my son got deferred too. He is a little down tonight. I think what's hard now is to receive news from only one school, and have to wait until April for the rest of the admission results.
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CarolynLawrence
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Posted: Sat Dec 15th, 2007 12:23 am |
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Consolation wrote: I guess he'd better start looking at third tier schools or figure out how to cut 5 or 10 seconds off his time in the 800.
Consolation, he does not need to start looking at third tier schools (although, there are plenty of happy successful kids third tier schools). But, as soon as you and he catch your breath, it would be a good idea to revisit the idea of including some safer bet schools on his list. There are plenty of safer bet schools that are not "third tier" (and actually, there are quite a few great "third tier" schools as well!)
I know you've talked to your son about this already, but insist on it now. Flying without a net is fool-hardy and nerve-wracking. Having a net doesn't mean he won't get into some mighty fine schools, but it will make it a lot easier to sleep over the next few months.
You might start by printing out this entire thread for your son and going over some of the wonderful suggestions and advice people have given together, and then figure out a worst case scenario plan and stick to it. I doubt you'll have to use it, but having it is important. Remind him (and yourself) that applying doesn't mean that you are giving up hope on the lottery schools - it is just an insurance policy, both in terms of admissions and financial aid. It's always better to have schools to turn down when the dream school comes through then it is to white knuckle it for the next four months.Last edited on Sat Dec 15th, 2007 12:32 am by CarolynLawrence
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Consolation
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Posted: Sat Dec 15th, 2007 01:32 am |
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CarolynLawrence wrote: Consolation wrote: I guess he'd better start looking at third tier schools or figure out how to cut 5 or 10 seconds off his time in the 800.
Consolation, he does not need to start looking at third tier schools (although, there are plenty of happy successful kids third tier schools). But, as soon as you and he catch your breath, it would be a good idea to revisit the idea of including some safer bet schools on his list. There are plenty of safer bet schools that are not "third tier" (and actually, there are quite a few great "third tier" schools as well!)
Well, I guess I really don't know what a second or third tier school is. I think of Kenyon and the University of Rochester, just to cite a few example of places I've tried to get him to think about, as "second tier schools." That doesn't mean that I'm saying they aren't good schools, because they are, but let's face it: they aren't Stanford or the Ivies or Swat or Williams or Cal Tech or whatever either, in terms of "selectivity."
I am further confused by the fact that people have said that it is foolish to consider most of those "second tier" schools as safeties for him, despite the fact that his stats put him in the top 25% at them and at more selective schools. (And they sure aren't financial safeties!) So what IS a "safety"? I conclude that it is a school where the typical SAT is about 500 per section and most of the kids are around the middle of their class and the school accepts 70 percent or more of applicants. Isn't that a "third tier" school?
I'm not making any judgements about whether it is possible to get a good education at any of these schools or about whether there are great kids who are perfectly happy at them. I do, however, think that they aren't going to be the right place for this particular kid, and that it is ludicrous to expect him to "fall in love with" them and also ludicrous for him to try to convince their adcoms that he would actually WANT to go there if he had any other choice. It's just not a fit, any more than it would be a fit for a performing arts major to go to Cal Tech or a particle physicist to go to RISD.
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Consolation
Member
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Posted: Sat Dec 15th, 2007 01:34 am |
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riviera wrote: Consolation, my son got deferred too. He is a little down tonight. I think what's hard now is to receive news from only one school, and have to wait until April for the rest of the admission results.
I'm sorry to hear that, Riviera. My S is taking it better than I am, actually. I'm proud of him.
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jocelynDAD
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Posted: Sat Dec 15th, 2007 06:19 am |
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Consolation wrote: Well, I guess I really don't know what a second or third tier school is. I think of Kenyon and the University of Rochester, just to cite a few example of places I've tried to get him to think about, as "second tier schools." That doesn't mean that I'm saying they aren't good schools, because they are, but let's face it: they aren't Stanford or the Ivies or Swat or Williams or Cal Tech or whatever either, in terms of "selectivity."
I am further confused by the fact that people have said that it is foolish to consider most of those "second tier" schools as safeties for him, despite the fact that his stats put him in the top 25% at them and at more selective schools. (And they sure aren't financial safeties!) So what IS a "safety"? I conclude that it is a school where the typical SAT is about 500 per section and most of the kids are around the middle of their class and the school accepts 70 percent or more of applicants. Isn't that a "third tier" school?
I'm not making any judgements about whether it is possible to get a good education at any of these schools or about whether there are great kids who are perfectly happy at them. I do, however, think that they aren't going to be the right place for this particular kid, and that it is ludicrous to expect him to "fall in love with" them and also ludicrous for him to try to convince their adcoms that he would actually WANT to go there if he had any other choice. It's just not a fit, any more than it would be a fit for a performing arts major to go to Cal Tech or a particle physicist to go to RISD.
Wow, Consolation it is really difficult to read your responses. Your comments provide the reader with the overwhelming 'sense of entitlement' that you have for your S.
I believe that you truly are convinced that there is only 15 or so colleges/universities that are qualified for your child!
There are over 3000 institutions of 'higher education' in this country alone. Granted many of these institutions are vastly different than an Ivy league or comparable school, BUT, a heck of a lot of them are excellent schools that do not deserve to be downgraded to a 'second tier' if they are not among the few that you or your S believe are the only possible 'fit' for him.
I do not want to be harsh, so perhaps I will try to give you some arquments to present to your S (and yourself). You mentioned that you are a Wellesley grad. I do not know when you attended, but if you are older than 56, then many of the highly competitive schools (HYP) were just beginning to go COED in 1969/1971 time frame.
Since these highly competitive schools were almost all male, and considering that the student body at these schools has remained relatively stable, well then the male population has changed from 100% to 45% or even less.
The population has continued to grow, so more males competiting for only 45% or so of the enrolling students.
It is a lot harder to get into these schools today because of the inclusion of females in the student body.
30 years ago, Yale might very well be a easy admission for your S or someone with his achievements. Not today! More students in school, woman equally considered and across the country the ladies constitute about 55% of the students. Vastly different than 30 or even 20 years ago.
I could list 35 to 60 schools without reference to any guides that would be an excellent academic and social experience for your S. Obviously his uniqueness is unknown to me, but certainly among that grouping some schools would be both challenging and exciting for your S.
Go back and read this thread and go again to the CC site and read Andison story.
I know you feel your S is special, well he can be special and happy and successful in a lot of schools, not just the 'fifteen or so most selective'.
I do wish him and you luck.
BTW: Here is some of the schools and their midpoint SAT averages:
Gustavus Adolphus 1240
Wooster 1220
St Olaf 1280
Lawrence 1300
Illinois Wesleyan 1285
Centre 1270
Remember that is the mid point, half the students at these institutions have higher SAT scores (not that the SAT scores really reflect the students true abilities) than the midpoint.
Your S would rank in the top 20% or higher at these school and plenty more besides. You really IMO should do some hard fact checking there is some really great schools that your S would enjoy while being challenged.
Last edited on Sat Dec 15th, 2007 06:23 am by jocelynDAD
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Consolation
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Posted: Sat Dec 15th, 2007 07:52 am |
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JocelynDad, you seem absolutely determined to misunderstand me. This reminds me strongly of several months ago when I bemoaned the fact that he only had schools that accepted under 50% on his list and you bizarrely took that to mean that he was disdaining schools that accepted more students and accused him of arrogance! At the time I told you that far from being arrogant, he was adequately humbled by knowing that his chances of getting into his favorite school were slim and that he didn't even know acceptance percentages at most places.
This time I clearly said several things:
A) I don't know what people mean when they talk about the various tiers of schools, so I gave some examples of what *I* think of when I hear the term.
B) I very, very clearly said that the schools I mentioned that *I* think of as "second tier" are GOOD SCHOOLS!!!! GOOD SCHOOLS!!!! YOU may think of "second tier" as an insult. I don't. I am able to accept the fact that my alma mater is easier to get into than, say, Harvard, as a simple fact, not an assumption of ultimate worth. Simple "selectivity" is very, very far from being the only measure of a school, as any rational person knows.
C) I did not say that I think THOSE schools would be a poor fit for my kid. If I thought so I would not be urging him to apply to them!
D) Yes, I think that there ARE schools where HE, as an individual, would not be happy. This is true of many kids. I'm sorry you find that unacceptable. I deliberately used as examples of possible misfits two great schools, Cal Tech and RISD, and two types of kids with very different interests and talents because I'm talking about FIT. I'm sorry if it offends you, but I know the atmosphere and company in which he has felt most comfortable and most inspired and I don't think it is "entitlement " to want him to have that in college.
I never said anything about the "fifteen or so most selective"--YOUR phrase, not mine--being the only place for him. (Thankfully, many that might appear on that list do not appear on his.)
I'm sorry you don't like my views. If you find it so painful, I suggest you don't read my posts. I will refrain from saying any more because this is not the kind of board where people commonly trade personal insults. I would request, though, that you refrain from heaping your scorn on my kid, who hasn't posted here and who doesn't deserve it.
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scoop
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Posted: Sat Dec 15th, 2007 12:39 pm |
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| consolation, It's good to hear your son is taking this disappointment well. I wish him luck in further defining his choices.
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limner
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Posted: Sat Dec 15th, 2007 01:18 pm |
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Consolation, I could see from your second post mentioned "third tier" schools that you really didn't know what the term meant. My understanding of the term is from USNWR. They list second and third (and, I believe, fourth) tier schools and Kenyon isn't on any of those lists.
I think those of us who either just went through or are going through the process for the first time will terms that for old pros lik jDad (I use the word "old" in the most respectful sense jDad ) have very specific meanings.
You're understandably upset right now and emotions are high. Take a deep breath (if it's after 5, go pour yourself a glass of wine) and re-read jDad's post about how being deferred at Yale is nothing to be ashamed about and just breathe for a bit. There are plenty of stories on CC about kids being deferred or rejected from one HYPSM only to get into another one of those schools. That's why the gambling references ring so true in this process.
Just give this another 24 hours or so to sink in and let the ideas percolate of which schools would be the best addition/s to your S's list. And remember that everyone here wants to help; it's just hard to truly read people over the wires sometimes.
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jocelynDAD
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Posted: Sat Dec 15th, 2007 05:58 pm |
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Consolation wrote:
I'm sorry you don't like my views. If you find it so painful, I suggest you don't read my posts. I will refrain from saying any more because this is not the kind of board where people commonly trade personal insults. I would request, though, that you refrain from heaping your scorn on my kid, who hasn't posted here and who doesn't deserve it.
It is not the less bit painful, just sad!
Nowhere in my post(s) has any scorn be placed on heaped on your child. Nor was any comments insulting or directly personal.
As stated in previous posts by myself and others, this process is fraught with pitfalls and reasoned and unreasonable decisions by the various schools.
Your posts have consistently mentioned the vary limited selection of schools that were on the list that your child was considering. You have mentioned on a number of posts of your involvement and opinion of the suitability of varied schools.
As suggested by me and others, take a good look at this thread and reflect on the actions necessary in the few days left in 2007. Many excellent schools close the application process by January 1, or January 15. Of course, many extend the last date for acceptance until February and even March 1. However, the schools with considerable competition seem to close by January 1 or 15.
Unfortunately, each outcome is not as we would wish, but there are many roads to success and at this junction, your S has limited time to maximize his choices.
Again, wish your S good luck and multiple choices in his future.
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DesperateDad
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Posted: Sat Dec 15th, 2007 06:05 pm |
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consolation:
altho disappointment is today, so is the app for USC merit money. With your son's stats, I'd suggest that 'SC is close to a safety (they just love high SAT kids). Unfortunately, the apps for merit sholarships are due today. Just a thought.
Other safeties in the Uni category are Tulane & Miami, altho the merit app for Miami may have passed. Suggestions for Uni matches might be Vandy, Wake Forest, Emory.
Others have mentioned excellent LACs.
Last edited on Sat Dec 15th, 2007 06:09 pm by DesperateDad
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leftcoast
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Posted: Sat Dec 15th, 2007 09:25 pm |
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Consolation, a deferral is not a rejection.
Two years ago my d. applied EA to Chicago. When the skinny envelope came, I remember holding it up to the light so I could see what was inside it -- I was able to make out enough to know that it was a deferral, not a rejection. I left it on her bed at home, sealed, wondering how she would react... trying to be as casual as possible when she got home and I mentioned that a letter had arrived. She went into her room and a few minutes later I heard a whoop of joy -- "Mom! They didn't reject me!!" (She was even more happy when she learned that the top student at her school -- with a better GPA & test scores than she had -- had also been deferred -- it was proof positive, as far as she was concerned, that she was every bit as good as he was).
She was accepted to Chicago in the spring.... and turned it down in favor of Barnard. The other, "smarter" kid? Also accepted in the spring ... as well as accepted at 3 Ivies + a top 3 LAC; he's at Harvard now.
Chicago's loss.
----------------------------
I do have to add -- my daughter had one other early write school, Brandeis, and they waitlisted her in early February. This did fuel parental worries -- I rationalized to myself that that deferral & waitlist meant that my d's application was intriguing enough for schools to want to keep her in abeyance, but not quite good enough to make the cut -- and I expected to see more waitlist offers in the spring. So I was rather surprised by the fat envelopes -- my d. was ultimately accepted at all her reach colleges except Brown (which was so far out of the realm of possibility all along that I had refused to pay the application fee).
A deferral means your son is still in the running for Yale. Given Yale's admission standards, it also means that he is in the running for every other highly selective college in the country. If anything, you should look at the EA non-rejection as a signal that your son is on the right track when he aims high. He hasn't been kicked off the island yet.
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