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Consolation
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Posted: Tue Oct 2nd, 2007 02:34 pm |
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To clarify, the GC didn't say there was a huge difference, just some difference.
I have to say that I consider the 11% difference at Amherst pretty significant. Although obviously it doesn't make the school a shoo-in for males.
Another thing that should not be overlooked is that no one knows if the male to female comparison at any school is an apples to apples comparison. There may well be some underlying factors in the male/female applicant pools that contribute to the differing admit rates. (Having just recently listened to Freakonomics on cd, I am alert to the possibilities.  ) So as always, it is never safe to make too many assumptions.
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revkat
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Posted: Tue Oct 2nd, 2007 05:44 pm |
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That's a great site! Very helpful.
My D decided to take another look at Harvey Mudd (maybe instead of Pomona) after looking at the statistics! Her older sister (Pitzer grad) had suggested it, then backed off -- as an RA she was a bit put out that the RAs at the other 5Cs didn't even pretend to enforce alcohol policies, whereas she was expected to pour out anything she saw and write her residents up. That said, Harvey Mudd has a pretty good sized board and video game playing contingent which D2 would enjoy.
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CarolynLawrence
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Posted: Wed Oct 3rd, 2007 05:57 am |
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Consolation wrote: Another thing that should not be overlooked is that no one knows if the male to female comparison at any school is an apples to apples comparison. There may well be some underlying factors in the male/female applicant pools that contribute to the differing admit rates. (Having just recently listened to Freakonomics on cd, I am alert to the possibilities. ) So as always, it is never safe to make too many assumptions.
This is true. Let's face it, there are probably more male athletic recruits than females at many schools, which could skew the percentages somewhat as well.
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CarolynLawrence
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Posted: Wed Oct 3rd, 2007 05:58 am |
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revkat wrote: That's a great site! Very helpful.
My D decided to take another look at Harvey Mudd (maybe instead of Pomona) after looking at the statistics! Her older sister (Pitzer grad) had suggested it, then backed off -- as an RA she was a bit put out that the RAs at the other 5Cs didn't even pretend to enforce alcohol policies, whereas she was expected to pour out anything she saw and write her residents up. That said, Harvey Mudd has a pretty good sized board and video game playing contingent which D2 would enjoy.
Harvey Mudd is a great place. Wouldn't it be neat to have two 5C grads in the family? I bet you already know the route to campus.
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Consolation
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Posted: Sat Nov 10th, 2007 07:13 pm |
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I tried not talking to him about the list for several weeks, and it had precisely zero results in terms of getting him to look at safeties.
Here's his list as of now:
Yale SCEA
Places he says he'll apply even if he gets into Yale early:
University of Chicago
Williams
Places he seems to want to apply to if he doesn't get in early:
Brown
Carleton
Dartmouth
Georgetown
Harvard ( Just what his list needed!)
Places which seem to have dropped off the list :
Swarthmore
U of Penn
Amherst
Safety he grudgingly agrees to apply to but will not look into:
U of Rochester
Other places I'm trying to get him to consider seriously for obvious reasons but which he won't look into either:
Kenyon
Grinnell
Oberlin
At this point I think I'm going to have to make an appointment with the GC to get him to seriously look at finding some less selective schools to apply to, because if he doesn't get into Yale early--and the odds are against an unhooked non-URM kid from a public school in the Northeast-- things are going to be very, very stressfull in the second half of December. And since that is the busiest time of year for my business, it won't be pretty.
Last edited on Sat Nov 10th, 2007 07:22 pm by Consolation
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jocelynDAD
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Posted: Sat Nov 10th, 2007 07:42 pm |
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two years ago on that 'other site', one young man applied to a list very similar to your S.
He had excellent grades, scores, EC's etc and was rejected by ALL on his list.
He took a year off and reapplied to a different list that still had some reach schools on the list. He was accepted at MIT and now attends.
I would suggest you go on that site and locate that story, it is true and it is revealing.
When all the schools on any person's list are so selective that less than 20% or even 30& of their (usually very well qualified) applicants are accepted thereby 70 to 80 to (in some cases) almost 90% of their applicants are rejected, then that person is entering a mine field without a map!!!!!!!!!!!
It is good to have high hopes and high opinions of one's self. But there is that
possibility of having the same result as that young man in the 2005-6 term.
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limner
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Posted: Sat Nov 10th, 2007 07:42 pm |
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Consoloation, I had a hard time convincing my son to seriously examine and consider a safety he'd be happy to attend. He had one on his list that I felt was not a good fit, although it was his Dad's alma mater. So I understand your frustration. What changed my son's attitude was that he didn't get into his ED school; he was deferred. And, as you're surmising, it was a stressful month from Dec. 15 to Jan. 15 (and, of course, more stress come March and April). The good news is that the three schools you're trying to get him to look at all have Jan. 15 deadlines (actually, Grinnell's is 1/20).
But at some point, it's the old "lead a horse to water" problem, and you've got to let them deal with the consequences of their actions. The possible consequences here aren't insurmountable. Hang in there!
Edit: the thread JDad is referring to was written by "andison" IIRC.Last edited on Sat Nov 10th, 2007 07:45 pm by limner
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Chedva
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Posted: Sat Nov 10th, 2007 08:00 pm |
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I know people have considered University of Rochester a safety for Ivy-league level kids, but I do have to tell you that it is becoming more selective. In 2006, they accepted the same number of kids, and had a significantly higher yield than anticipated. So for 2007, they accepted 15% fewer kids, and still got a bigger class than they wanted - kids are in forced triples. Kids who would have been accepted in 2005 weren't in 2007.
I'm not saying your son won't get in, but using it as his only safety is dangerous.
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CarolynLawrence
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Posted: Sat Nov 10th, 2007 08:59 pm |
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I agree with Limner's comments about minds being changed after Early decisions come out. Make sure he has his applications for the other schools currently on his list completed before then, including all of the recommendations sent. Then, if he changes his mind about finding some safer schools after EA results, he will only have those schools to add in to the mix over December.
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Wendy (wjb)
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Posted: Sat Nov 10th, 2007 10:13 pm |
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Consolation --
Just reviewed this thread. Your son has gotten some fine suggestions along the way. Frankly, your son's list would scare the heck out of me. It's not just that he has only one safety that he says he dislikes. Equally worrisome is the fact that he has no matches -- just a long list of reaches. I'm going to make one more plug for Brandeis here. A small research university with fine academics. Not a safety, but a comfortable match for your son. And if he uses Brandeis' online application, applying is free and painless: All he needs to do is plug in his main Common App essay.
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Consolation
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Posted: Sat Nov 10th, 2007 10:55 pm |
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I can't find the discussion about andison--at least not the original one. It seems that the search engine won't go back that far.
While his list does make me very nervous, obviously, I wouldn't say that it has no matches. I think that the U of C, and possibly Georgetown, are matches for him, if you look at the stats. Maybe flukey matches. Carleton could also be considered a match, although it is becoming more and more of a lottery school.
I'm thinking about whether he would be willing to look at Bard, although I haven't researched their financials...
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Consolation
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Posted: Sat Nov 10th, 2007 10:58 pm |
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CarolynLawrence wrote: I agree with Limner's comments about minds being changed after Early decisions come out. Make sure he has his applications for the other schools currently on his list completed before then, including all of the recommendations sent. Then, if he changes his mind about finding some safer schools after EA results, he will only have those schools to add in to the mix over December.
That mirrors my current thinking. (That's why I'm back on the safety thing again: we have to ask for transcripts, SATs, and recs to be sent, and I would rather not do so on Dec 16th!)
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CarolynLawrence
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Posted: Sun Nov 11th, 2007 01:00 am |
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Here is the link:
http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/47867-were-picking-up-pieces-but-what-went-wrong.html?highlight=andison
Andi's son's stats were very similar to your sons. The happy news is, he took a gap year and applied to a different list of schools the following year. He is now a happy MIT student.
I know a few other top level kids who this has happened to over the years, but it is generally fairly rare. However, the advice I always give to parents is, even if your CHILD doesn't want a back up plan, YOU should have one in mind just in case, whether it be checking on how late your state and neighboring state institutions will still take applications, planning for a gap year if all else fails, or getting a list of reasonable private schools with rolling admissions or late admission dates to have on hand.
Other than that, sometimes there really is nothing you can do to convince a kid that they're taking a major risk. And, after all, there is always a chance that things will work out perfectly after all.
Hang in there Consolation. I trust the process, and my fingers and toes are crossed for your son, but you should have the back up plan ready, just in case.
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Consolation
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Posted: Sun Nov 11th, 2007 02:21 am |
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CarolynLawrence wrote: Here is the link:
http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/47867-were-picking-up-pieces-but-what-went-wrong.html?highlight=andison
Andi's son's stats were very similar to your sons.
Every paragraph she writes is like a hammer blow. This is exactly what I am afraid of. Even the languages, the music....and I know from one of the later threads that her S was on From The Top. That means that he is a truly, truly exceptional musician!
I can't believe he didn't get into Oberlin. It must have been because they assumed he would go elsewhere. I have the feeling that every school that didn't take him assumed that one of their peers would.
I'm glad to know this story has a happy ending, because it is just too horrible to contemplate.
One of the boys across the street from us was rejected from every single school he applied to, which sent a frisson of horror through many other families. As it happened, he applied, to Eckerd, which has rolling admissions, got in, and did well. He enjoyed being one of the top students, instead of one of the kids for whom honors classes were a challenge. (His father told me that his freshman year classes were very much a repeat of what he had already done in honors classes at our high school.) But things worked out well for him.
I'm thinking of sending the link to this thread to my S, although I'm afraid it would have no effect except to stress him. Back to reading....
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limner
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Posted: Sun Nov 11th, 2007 02:47 pm |
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It's been a while since I read Andi's son's saga, but he may not have shown enough interest in Oberlin. As you point out, Consoloation, each school may have assumed he was going to go elsewhere, and they'd think that way if he didn't communicate interest, either in his app or in other ways. My son agreed to visit Earlham, which was the safety I wanted him to look at. He really liked the school and was able (I presume) to communicate that to the powers that be, since he was accepted very quickly. (They have a 2/15 date and he heard, IIRC, before Mar. 1.)
Stress is not necessarily bad; it may help your son make some good decisions. And once my son had visited Earlham and applied, I was hugely relieved--I felt like he (and I) had done what he could in the admissions process and the chips would fall where they were supposed to.
Regarding Carleton, I just checked my S's "College Data" spreadsheet, and it listed their RD acceptance rate at 29%. Granted, these data are a year older than the most recent, but I doubt this number has gone up. As Carolyn (and others on this list) wisely pointed out to me: no school with a less 30% acc. rate is a match for anyone. And my S's list has Kenyon at a 36% acc. rate. People cautioned me against using Kenyon as a safety, and they were right. My S was waitlisted there.  I'm bringing these up to illustrate how hard it is to predict admissions results. When one of us figures out how to do that, financial aid will be but a dim memory . . . 
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jocelynDAD
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Posted: Thu Nov 15th, 2007 07:52 pm |
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The Yale Daily News has reported that the SCEA applications this year were 4,820 an increase of 36% from last year's total of 3541. 
Last year they accepted 19.7% of the SCEA.
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Consolation
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Posted: Fri Nov 16th, 2007 01:07 pm |
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jocelynDAD wrote: The Yale Daily News has reported that the SCEA applications this year were 4,820 an increase of 36% from last year's total of 3541.
Last year they accepted 19.7% of the SCEA.
Just what all the kids who really want Yale were afraid would happen...I noticed that Brown's early apps were up something like 6 or 8 percent also. I'm wondering about Stanford, since they are also EA, not ED.
On the slightly brighter side, Yales early apps were actually DOWN last year by 13%, which presumably makes the upside this year not as bad...although that may also have accounted for what I think was a slight uptick in the EA acceptance rate last year.
And of course they can have little idea what this will do to their yield, so maybe they will accept more and/or defer more to the RD round. As someone commented, their selectivity rating might rise, but their yield numbers might drop like a rock.
I can even find it in my heart to pity the embattled admissions officers who are trying to deal with not only a flood of applications from stellar kids, some of whom dearly want Yale and some of whom dearly want H or P but most of whom they are going to have to reject, but with the inevitable headlines second-guessing their decisions and their success in estimating yield. It will be interesting to see what happens to the number of RD applications they get...
Which leads me to a question: I know that if you are deferred from an early program you can submit additional materials, but can you submit rewrites of your essays, or even a new version of your COmmon App?
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jocelynDAD
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Posted: Fri Nov 16th, 2007 05:52 pm |
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While each situation is different, my expectation is that the Adcoms would want to see new information not a rehashing of previously submitted data.
However, each school is different, and anything is possible!
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HijinksAndSue
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Posted: Fri Nov 16th, 2007 06:25 pm |
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Apologizing for the hijack sort of, but when is the notification date for Yale SCEA?
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Consolation
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Posted: Fri Nov 16th, 2007 07:07 pm |
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HijinksAndSue wrote: Apologizing for the hijack sort of, but when is the notification date for Yale SCEA?
My understanding is that it will be available using the student's Yale PIN number some time on Friday, December 14th. (It was supposed to be the 15th, but that's a Saturday. )
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