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shawbridge
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Posted: Mon Jul 14th, 2008 02:05 pm |
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CarolynLawrence wrote: And, just a thought, but check out the Tutorial College at Ohio University - it is an honors program for gifted students, and it might be very adaptable for your son. However, I am not familiar with their accomodation policies overall, and, as with many honors colleges, students in the Tutorial college do have to write a thesis. http://www.honors.ohio.edu/
Carolyn, the Tutorial College at Ohio University looks surprisingly interesting. My read is that there is a heavy overlay of tutorials and that you take other classes in more standard format. I've never been a fan of the Oxbridge system for the sciences as I think there are bodies of cumulative thought that can be communicated more efficiently by lecture and because they force the students to specialize more quickly (or at least assume they've gotten a full liberal arts education in high school) but in a mixed mode, it might be fabulous.
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Consolation
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Posted: Mon Jul 14th, 2008 04:12 pm |
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Chedva wrote: They still have some excellent economics and poli sci professors, and the departments are still considered strong. And yes, every time my d called home, from late October to March, it was snowing.
To be fair to Rochester's climate, it may be an indication of some correlation between snow and a desire to call home, rather than an indication that it is ALWAYS snowing there!  The Finger Lakes area is certain physically attractive in the summer, and a nice fresh coating of snow is always pretty to this snow-lover.
I was thinking about Rochester too, but didn't mention it because I didn't know about their accomodation situation. Rochester is a really good school, with a lot of bright, interesting kids across many disciplines, including the arts. They also give merit scholarships, if that is an issue for you. (Judging by our experience, the need-based aid isn't as good, but that's just one data point.)
I know that they have a particular curriculum--The Rochester Plan, perhaps? My memory is fading fast!--as well as "5th year free" for those who cannot fit all the courses they need into 4 years. You might want to take a gander at those topics on their web site and see if they would help or hinder your S.
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CarolynLawrence
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Posted: Mon Jul 14th, 2008 11:49 pm |
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shawbridge wrote: Rochester had a pretty strong physics department and some good people in the quantitative side of political science.
Just a heads up, but Rochester is also launching a new major in International Studies this fall that looks very interesting.
I know someone whose son graduated from the Honors Tutorial Program at Ohio U. He really had a wonderful experience in every way. He was, however, majoring in film if I recall correctly - but he was treated very well there.
Last edited on Mon Jul 14th, 2008 11:51 pm by CarolynLawrence
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WestrnMom
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Posted: Wed Jul 16th, 2008 03:20 am |
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I would not send an LD student to a school that requires them to apply for accommodations for each test. That's too stressful and there are too many chances to miss the deadlines. A friend's daughter ran into that at UC San Diego. It was so difficult to get her accommodations she often just skipped them completely. Once a semester should be sufficient to apply. They also need to talk to each professor each semester, too. Sometimes the profs offer extra study help for LD students, but it's not always widely publicized. One student was able to get the professor to read a test out loud when the school itself refused to offer oral testing.
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shawbridge
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Posted: Thu Jul 17th, 2008 04:20 am |
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That should be part of my questioning for disability services department at each school : What does the student have to do to actually receive the granted accommodations?
I gather that requiring students to ask before each test is the norm. That kind of advance planning is, of course, exactly the kind of thing many kids with LDs find difficult. That may be the point -- schools that basically would prefer not to give accommodations offer the accommodations but make it hard to actually get them. My undergraduate school offered the opportunity to take a junior year abroad, but basically believed that the best education would be obtained within its hallowed Ivy walls. So they put in charge of the year abroad program a professor who didn't believe that there was much educational value to a year abroad and students hoping to spend the year abroad had to convince him of the virtues of their proposed plans. I suppose it is a bit like the literacy test used to keep poor blacks from voting in the post-Reconstruction era South and the poll tax.
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WestrnMom
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Posted: Fri Jul 18th, 2008 04:09 am |
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By law, any school that takes federal funding must offer a range of disability services, however, they can limit them by making it very difficult to obtain the services. Some schools offer more than others, and some offer more for certain types of disabilities. Santa Clara offers excellent services for deaf or blind students, but limits those for learning disabilities.
Another way to tell how well private schools accommodation disabilities is to look at the % disabled on the U.S. News site. I like their site because they use the Common Data sets. They are always 2 years behind, so the data available this fall will be from the class that graduated high school in 2007. The more students with disabilities in the private schools, the better (usually) the accommodations. Public school data is more difficult to determine. In California, for example, the Cal States, especially the smaller ones, seem to offer better LD services than the U.C.s Cal Poly Pomona has better services than Cal Poly San Luis Obispo, because they take students with lower GPAs, many of which are going to be LD students. That is just a general trend I noticed, but not based on any empirical data.
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shawbridge
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Posted: Fri Jul 18th, 2008 04:27 am |
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I looked at the US News site and see lots of rankings but don't see the data. Is there a trick to getting access to the data? Is this the premium membership?
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Descartes
Super Moderator
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Posted: Fri Jul 18th, 2008 05:14 am |
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Unfortunately, yes, shawbridge. I believe the data to which WesternM is referring is behind the "Disabled" index link for each school and inaccessible without a premium subscription.
I am no judge, but the information did seem to be a comprehensive summary. (This data pool really is a much better reason for a premium subscription than access to the rankings).
If you are interested, a premium membership is $14.95 for a whole year's worth of access if you subscribe when the new data appears, about Aug. 15. I would, therefore, recommend waiting a month until then.
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WestrnMom
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Posted: Sat Jul 19th, 2008 01:45 am |
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Yes, either get a subscription for the 2008-2009 year or look at the schools' websites. You might have to call and talk to someone in their Student Services offices, too.
There is a book published that gives data on LD programs in a select number of schools. However, the concept of providing "full services" vs "partial services" is confusing. Full services means all disabilities are covered, but my own experience shows that they don't always give all possible accommodations. Schools that offer partial services may still provide your child with every single accommodation needed. For that reason I suggest parents do all their own research and not rely on someone else to find the right schools for your child. Yes, they can do the research themselves, but an LD student is going to be busy enough trying to maintain grades senior year without the stress of locating all their own services.
Once they start college, I also suggest taking a study skills and organization course and any remediation needed to refresh reading/writing/math skills. Students going off to college must be prepared to advocate for themselves, to talk to professors, to seek tutoring and any special help, to ask for a quiet room and more time on tests if those are needed. LD students will find themselves working harder and putting in more time on studying than other students.
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WestrnMom
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Posted: Sat Jul 19th, 2008 01:46 am |
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If you have questions about any particular school, please ask. Any one of us with access to that site can get the data for you until you sign up.
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Consolation
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Posted: Sat Jul 19th, 2008 04:03 am |
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I know it is completely worthless commiseration, but I have to say that I am semi-appalled that schools would make a kid ask for accommodations separately for each test.
I mean, either the "E" is legit or it isn't. I know that there are some schools where kids obtain extra time if their parents have the $$ to spend obtaining an assessment--one of my nieces goes to such a school-- but I also know that that is the exception.
Eventually, the kid is going to have to deal on his or her own, but shouldn't there be a gradual process of teaching strategies that help wean him or her off of accomodations?
Last edited on Sat Jul 19th, 2008 04:05 am by Consolation
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shawbridge
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Posted: Sat Jul 19th, 2008 05:35 am |
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WestrnMom wrote: Yes, either get a subscription for the 2008-2009 year or look at the schools' websites. You might have to call and talk to someone in their Student Services offices, too.
There is a book published that gives data on LD programs in a select number of schools. However, the concept of providing "full services" vs "partial services" is confusing. Full services means all disabilities are covered, but my own experience shows that they don't always give all possible accommodations. Schools that offer partial services may still provide your child with every single accommodation needed. For that reason I suggest parents do all their own research and not rely on someone else to find the right schools for your child. Yes, they can do the research themselves, but an LD student is going to be busy enough trying to maintain grades senior year without the stress of locating all their own services.
Once they start college, I also suggest taking a study skills and organization course and any remediation needed to refresh reading/writing/math skills. Students going off to college must be prepared to advocate for themselves, to talk to professors, to seek tutoring and any special help, to ask for a quiet room and more time on tests if those are needed. LD students will find themselves working harder and putting in more time on studying than other students.
WestrnMom, thanks for your generosity. I'm going to see what kinds of data they have and figure out what my questions are. You've already given me one variable to look at.
I think my son will not need remediation -- he's working this year on building up reading fluency. He's become a pretty good advocate for himself. At aTEAM meeting, he explained very clearly to a relatively forceful English department chairman why what the chairman proposed was generally a good thing but would not work given his learning style and explained what would work. He also told the group, correctly, that he didn't need to get a high school diploma from the school if that would require him to take courses that seemed to require big expenditures of effort for him with relatively little gain. At the end of the meeting, which included the Assistant Superintendent, the Principal came over, shook his hand, and complimented him on how articulate and effective he was as an advocate. I used to do it all, but he's made lots of progress.
Study skills on the other hand may be another story. He does pretty well planning ahead. But, he won't have the scaffolding he has here. What would you suggest for study skills?
Accommodations will be one of two biggies. The other will be limited distribution requirements.
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WestrnMom
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Posted: Tue Jul 22nd, 2008 10:23 pm |
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From what I've been told, the UCs in California require a request for accommodations before every single exam, something like 2 weeks in advance, so it's common for students to miss getting their paperwork in and signed. I agree, that is a dreadful practice, and should be abolished.
I still have to get used to the term "distributions" which we call "general ed requirements." Some schools give a lot of leeway, others don't. It's worth asking. If he's exempt from certain classes, they should have something else comparable he can take to fill the requirements.
Every college we visited has some kind of study skills/organizational classes or workshops for freshmen. Some were full semester courses. Others are offered in the fall before school starts. Some are on an as-needed basis. Any student with LDs should be able to arrange to work with someone in the Special Services office who can help them organize their schedules and give information on organization. A student with ADD/ADHD who can't seem to learn organizational skills might need a coach on campus to make sure they are on track either daily or weekly with their assignments.
I would also have a talk with my child about the challenges of college and how they are going to be different from those faced in high school. In particular, they must get their work done early not just on time. If a paper is due on Friday, they should plan to have it done the Friday before so they can get someone to edit, or just have time to make their own corrections, maybe even show it to the prof in advance for suggestions. An LD student should never put off doing assignments, reading or studying until the last minute, because it will not get done. They can't cram for exams like other students can. They are different. In a good way, those differences make them better students than those who can put it off until the last minute, because the more time they devote to studying, the more they will learn.
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WestrnMom
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Posted: Mon Aug 18th, 2008 04:13 am |
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| I have an important update to a previous reply I made. Apparently many, if not all colleges require students to let the special services office know of every scheduled exam in advance. I believe the difference I was referring to above is that some schools require them to apply for accommodations and receive approval before each test, while others just need to fill out requests with the dates and times so the accommodations can be scheduled. In any case, be sure to ask detailed questions about how accommodations are requested, and if one must reapply for special services every semester, once a year in the fall, or just at the time of application or enrollment. If the school has a blind admissions policy for disaibilities then you are not required to disclose until after you have been admitted.
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Canadian
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Posted: Mon Aug 18th, 2008 08:12 am |
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Shawbridge, I know you don't like the block plan, but Colorado College does not require a request for accommodation before every exam. How absurd a requirement!
I will be posting a report of our meeting with the Disabilities Director soon.
Consolation, it not always possible for LD students to "wean" themselves off of accommodations. I suspect my S will always need to use a computer for note-taking and exams in order to be successful. Some students need audio assistance to reading. It is just the way they are wired.
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WestrnMom
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Posted: Tue Aug 19th, 2008 02:35 am |
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Canadian, what method do they use for students to inform them they have a test scheduled?
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Canadian
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Posted: Tue Aug 19th, 2008 03:55 am |
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| We are at the discussion but no action stage, so I'm not sure of anything, but it sounds like it is between the student and the prof. Check out the long write-up I did on the CC thread about their disabilities services.
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WestrnMom
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Posted: Sat Aug 23rd, 2008 08:56 pm |
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I saw your write up. The school sounds very well suited for a student I'm helping. Unfortunately it's beyond their budget and they don't have his major. Otherwise, the services would be just what he needs.
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Deja
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Posted: Sun Aug 24th, 2008 12:53 pm |
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WestrnMom wrote: I saw your write up. The school sounds very well suited for a student I'm helping. Unfortunately it's beyond their budget and they don't have his major. Otherwise, the services would be just what he needs.
And that is often the case. It grates on me a little that the best places for students with special needs are often places they can't afford (i.e. private schools). How many of these places guarantee to meet 100% of demonstrated financial need? And are there merit scholarships? How hard are they to obtain?
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WestrnMom
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Posted: Mon Aug 25th, 2008 02:55 am |
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It's a difficult situation in that the family looks like they can afford a private school on paper, but in reality they can't do to changes in the economy and the possibility of losing a major source of income while their child is in college. They can't plan based on what might happen, they need to decide based on their ability to pay as it appears to them right now. So, merit aid might be a possibility, but the tuition is $35,000 plus $9,000 room and board, and additional expenses, books, etc. They are looking at public schools in the $25,000 range, including tuition and housing.
I agree. The best schools for LDs are often the private schools. The public schools must offer certain services, but in reality those services may not be as good as they sound. I talked to a parent whose child is in the TRIO program at Arizona State University. On paper, it looks like a thorough program for all LD students and it's free. In reality, they found that it is primarily for first-generation college students with most of their resources going toward students who are underprepared for college or are not native English speakers. Her son received almost none of the help he needed and has a C average as a junior. I don't know how persistent he was in trying to get the services he needs, but his mom said that there was no follow up when he needed extra help.
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