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shawbridge
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Posted: Wed Jul 2nd, 2008 04:36 am |
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Hello.
My son is part rising senior and part graduated senior because he has been partial homeschooling. He unexpectedly had enough credits from his HS to graduate this June (with a high GPA, probably in the top 5 in his class of 300 at a highly regarded and competitive public high school in an affluent Massachusetts town. He will be applying to college this fall. He's actually continuing to work on the homeschooling part of his life, though the outer world calls it a gap year. I think we’re going to have an unusually challenging time picking colleges to apply to and he may have a harder than normal time figuring out how to present himself to colleges and here’s why.
He's a very bright motivated and ambitious kid who is highly dyslexic, which was the reason for the homeschooling in the first place -- he felt like high school was painfully easy and slow from an intellectual standpoint and for example found AP Chemistry to be trivially easy -- but full of reading/writing busywork that was very tiring for him. He's strong at science and math but has concluded that he is more interested in human behavior (economics, political science, psychology). Over the next year, he'll be completing (hopefully) a novel that he's co-authoring (a well-known publisher has expressed interest in seeing the manuscript), working on building his reading fluency, working on a study at Tufts that is going to test the effects on the reading fluency of adolescent dyslexics of software he's rewriting and a protocol to which he contributed, taking an immersion Spanish course in Central America, and having a needed surgery. He’ll also have to study for and take the SAT CR or ACTs.
He has worked very hard to compensate for and overcome his learning disabilities and his brain has in fact been rewiring itself. He has become a very good, albeit slow, writer. As part of partial homeschooling, over the summer at Harvard, he took and worked very hard at the expository writing class that Harvard requires of freshman and the professor told him he was the best writer in the class. His reading comprehension is now superb. However, both reading and writing tire him out.
Great books schools like St. Johns and Western canon schools like Columbia or Chicago would be disasters as the volume of reading would be too high. Ideal schools for him are probably that have kids as bright as he is but that are flexible in two ways: a) few or no distribution requirements so that he can avoid having to take courses with 600 pages of reading per week (Brown, Wesley, Williams, Hampshire come to mind); and b) willing to give accommodations relevant to his learning disability rather than willing to do so if forced to. Although he's likely to major in something like economics, political science or operations research, it would be good if the school had a decent studio art program as he is talented and he finds it relaxing. He is great at strategic thinking -- in games like chess and Diplomacy he appears to be thinking rounds ahead of other very bright kids -- and is intensely competitive. He loved Moot Court despite the heavy reading and writing because he tried to outthink his opponents and the judges. He thinks his ideal job would be a political campaign manager -- you try to out-think your opponents and there is a definite winner and loser. I'm not sure how, if at all, that interest should affect school selection.
It is likely that some schools will be particularly drawn to him because of he has steadily succeeded despite learning disabilities and has done so in ways that might not be expected of a dyslexic (competing in Moot Court, writing a novel, etc.). It is also likely that other schools will think he is an over-achiever who won’t be able to handle their curriculum. I don’t know if we’ll be able to figure out which schools will be in which category by the time he hands in his applications.
I imagine that we will learn from you and the other good people on this discussion group about schools that might be a good fit for him and may get your judgment about how he should present himself to colleges.
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kdmom
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Posted: Wed Jul 2nd, 2008 06:07 pm |
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Welcome, shawbridge! Your son sounds like a very interesting person who has faced and met a number of challenges. I'll bet he's got quite a future ahead of him.
Was your son given an official accommodation plan in high school? How does he do on standardized tests in general? Does he get along socially with people in his age group? This information might help us get a better idea of which schools would be a good fit for him.
Anyway, you've come to the right place! I'm sure people here will have lots of suggestions and advice for you.
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CarolynLawrence
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Posted: Wed Jul 2nd, 2008 08:34 pm |
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Welcome, Shawbridge! I know you will find a lot of support and help from the great folks here!
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Kareni
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Posted: Wed Jul 2nd, 2008 08:39 pm |
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Welcome Shawbridge!
Your son sounds like a fascinating young man who has already traveled a unique road.
I have a daughter who is homeschooled and a rising senior. It should prove to be an interesting year. I can't help but wonder what next July will be like.
Best wishes to you and your son.
Regards,
Kareni
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shawbridge
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Posted: Wed Jul 2nd, 2008 08:42 pm |
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Thanks for your reply, kdmom. He has had an IEP since he was in 2nd or 3rd grade. In his HS, this involved some remediation, but minimum of 100% extra time on tests, spacing out of exams to minimize fatigue, notes given, etc. He got 100% extra time from The College Board and ACT and a scribe/computer respectively, with long exams split over 2 days.
He hasn't taken the SAT I's (or whatever they are now called) or ACTs, but got 800's on Sat II Math 2 and Chemistry and a 5 on AP Chemistry. He's pretty confident he got a 5 on BC Calculus, though we are waiting for that score and a score for AP 2-D Art. The standardized test scores are a major improvement. In middle school, he took ERBs and got in the 50th percentile. But, we hired a tutor for SSATs who told him to look at it like a game in which the test-givers were trying to outsmart him. This turned it into a game in which he could apply his strategic thinking, and combined with much improved reading, he has done well on the standardized tests he's taken thus far. He really does need the extra time and he is very tired at the end of any such test.
Socially, he's been very happy. He marches to his own drum and does not care about being cool. He has always had a small number of very good friends. No girlfriends yet. We've seen a number of girls rather obviously attempt to indicate interest and he's ignored them. About them, he said, "I work hard and the work makes me tired. When I'm relaxing, I don't want to have to worry about saying the wrong thing. I'd rather be with my friends." A superb teacher who taught him in both constitutional law and international relations told me that at the beginning, the other kids related to him as the incredibly smart kid, but over the course of the year she thought his social skills improved dramatically and the other kids became friends/friendly with him. I mentioned this to him and he thought that she was just getting to know him, but he had already related well to the other kids.
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Lupine
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Posted: Wed Jul 2nd, 2008 09:00 pm |
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I wonder whether he'd enjoy a large public university -- at a school like UCLA, most of the lower division classes don't have enormous reading requirements or writing requirements (somewhat unfortunately, I think) and if he got the breadth done with some judicious choices he'd then be free to take upper division coursework in subjects that interest him and which would also not necessarily have a lot of reading or writing -- particularly if he took logic, Economics, cognitive psych, or mathematics or applied mathematics. These wouldn't be easy classes, by any means, but as long as he was a little careful with the course choices (avoiding things like History of Economics that has a tremendous reading load) I would think that the reading and writing load would not be awful.
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shawbridge
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Posted: Wed Jul 2nd, 2008 09:21 pm |
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Thanks, Carol and Kareni. It will be an interesting year.
Lupine, an interesting thought, because it could make the distribution requirement problem much easier to solve. He needs to study subjects in which the ratio of ideas to words is high. I originally thought he would major in physics -- the neuropsychologist who first tested him at age 8 or 9 said "I could see him as a theoretical physicist or philosopher" and his grandfather was a well-known theoretical physicist. But, his interests have shifted. So, I think he will survive college by majoring in economics, applied math or operations research. For him, those courses will likely be relatively easy and are light on reading and heavy on thinking (except, as you point out, History of Economic Thought).
He is aching for really smart classmates -- he found a limited number at his HS. I attended three of HYPSM and was a professor at H and have a sense that he is quite bright in some conventional but especially in some unconventional ways. Indeed, I remember getting to college and saying, "There are people like me here" and I'd love for him to feel the same thing if that is possible. My sense is that he is generally brighter than most of the kids we know going to to those schools (I don't know anyone going to M at the moment). So, I'd love to see him in a place where conversation with other smart kids is the norm. Do you think large public universities would work for that? Maybe ones with Honors Colleges like Michigan?
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CarolynLawrence
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Posted: Wed Jul 2nd, 2008 09:59 pm |
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Schools like Brown, U of Rochester, and Vassar might be good options to consider because they have extremely flexible curriculums with no distribution requirements. Brown, in particular, has a history of being supportive and understanding of students with Dyslexia, and its system of allowing students to take some courses on a pass/fail basis could be very helpful as well.
The real key, of course, is that, while every school is required by the ADA to provide accomodations, some schools make getting accomodations less of a hassle than others. If you haven't already invested in a copy, you might see if you can get a hold of the K&W Guide to Colleges for Students with Learning Disabilities. It does a good job of laying out how supportive various schools are, but you'll still need to ask lots of questions of the disabilities services centers to see about how the accomodations your son might need will be handled. Peterson's also has a good college guide for LD students that I like because it evaluates the depth of disabilities support.
In terms of large publics with strong support services, the SALT Center at the University of Arizona would be worth contacting. U of Arizona also has an excellent honors college. And, just a thought, but check out the Tutorial College at Ohio University - it is an honors program for gifted students, and it might be very adaptable for your son. However, I am not familiar with their accomodation policies overall, and, as with many honors colleges, students in the Tutorial college do have to write a thesis. http://www.honors.ohio.edu/
If you want to track down honors college programs, a good resource is http://www.nchchonors.org Just remember that not all honors programs are created equal -- there are some that attract very smart kids, and some that are more an "honors" college in name only.
Last edited on Wed Jul 2nd, 2008 10:16 pm by CarolynLawrence
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WestrnMom
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| Joined: | Fri May 26th, 2006 |
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Posted: Thu Jul 3rd, 2008 03:07 am |
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If I can find my old posts on LDs and college admissions, I will be happy to share them with you. I work with LD students and have a lot of personal experience with very bright, high achieving students with dyslexia, dysgraphia and other LDs. It sounds like your son is highly accomplished and will do well wherever he ends up attending.
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WestrnMom
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Posted: Thu Jul 3rd, 2008 03:13 am |
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I found some useful information in the Special Concerns section http://admissionsadvice.mywowbb.com/view_topic.php?id=1830&forum_id=2
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shawbridge
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Posted: Thu Jul 3rd, 2008 04:45 am |
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Carolyn, Brown is probably number one on our joint list, but we hadn't thought of Rochester or Vassar. Rochester had a pretty strong physics department and some good people in the quantitative side of political science. I'll have to investigate economics. I'm ignorant about Vassar but will investigate. We've heard about the strength on the LD side of Arizona but had not heard of their honors college. And, Ohio is altogether new.
We've found even in HS that we've collaborated effectively with the school system and my son has had a great IEP but teachers don't always follow it and you can't easily enforce it. I'm sure the same is true, as you suggest, in colleges. Some schools may be bad at it and others good, but what really counts is whether the professors honor the accommodations.
Last edited on Thu Jul 3rd, 2008 04:52 am by shawbridge
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Lupine
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Posted: Thu Jul 3rd, 2008 04:51 am |
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Some schools seem to be better about getting people on the bandwagon with accommodations, or perhaps directing students away from enrollment in courses with professors who are known to be unaccommodating.
Last edited on Thu Jul 3rd, 2008 04:53 am by Lupine
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shawbridge
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Posted: Thu Jul 3rd, 2008 04:57 am |
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Thanks for the helpful thread, WestrnMom. In your experience with super bright dyslexic kids, which schools have been good choices? I am sure it is somewhat kid-dependent, but some schools are probably better than others at accommodations and/or flexibility as Lupine suggested. Arizona looks strong on accommodations. We'll need to see if its honors program is strong enough. I've heard that Yale is starting a peer to peer mentoring program for kids with disabilities.
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Consolation
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Posted: Mon Jul 14th, 2008 01:49 am |
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If you are considering Brown, why not Amherst? They also have no distribution requirements, and plenty of very bright students.
I echo the others who have remarked that he sounds like a fascinating young man.
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shawbridge
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Posted: Mon Jul 14th, 2008 05:32 am |
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Consolation, a good thought. We'll definitely look at Amherst. I talked to one person who told me that Amherst had been initially cooperative with a kid with LDs but things didn't ultimately work out well -- but the situation was very different as the kid was ADD/OCD and needed quiet spaces to study and to live separately to avoid distractions. None of that is an issue for my son. He'll need extra time on tests, spacing out of exams, notes from the teacher or someone else, and some flexibility in what he has to take so that he doesn't get overwhelmed by the reading/writing. I like the idea of a school with bright kids and a tight community because it is in the middle of no place. We'll see if he will.
On the good days, of which there are many, it has been fun raising an interesting kid. The LDs and some possibly related health issues have created some serious challenges at various times. He worked on his novel Saturday, played basketball with friends, and then "chilled"with them, got up this morning (Sunday), did sections of a practice SAT (and is convinced he'll get an 800 on the math section of the SAT), helped reassemble our backyard trampoline, started a couple of beautiful charcoal drawings while listening to a novel until 10 PM, played chess with a friend while eating dinner thereafter, and went back to the drawings. He finds the art relaxing but was taking Art at school. It is nice to see that he's back to making art for fun. A friend dropped over at 11:45 and they're heading out. So, interesting mix of math, strategic reasoning, writing, art, socializing and a lot of discipline. Warms the cockles of a parent's heart (whatever cockles are).
We've just started talking about colleges. Today, he concluded that he'd have to apply to a lot of colleges -- a bunch of high end ones and some less competitive ones because he won't be able to predict which will like him. So, I'll start working with him to make a list. His Moot Court partner will be starting at Amherst this fall, so he can schedule a couple of days there if it seems to fit.
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WestrnMom
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Posted: Mon Jul 14th, 2008 05:36 am |
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I was offline and missed your question to me earlier. University of Arizona has the SALT program which is excellent, but it's a huge school with many distractions. I'm not as familiar with the East Coast schools. In California, University of Redlands is an excellent choice for LD students. I've heard that University of the Pacific has good resources, too, although that was not our experience when we visited. The best way to tell is to make up a list of his accommodations and ask what they offer. The US News paid site also has lists from the schools on all accommodations offered. Still, I found the best way to get all the information you need is to call and ask. The Special Services offices are used to talking to parents, unlike some of the other campus offices, so don't be shy about calling. If you want to do it anonymously, you can do that, too.
One downfall we found in all colleges is that textbooks are updated often, so if he uses something like RFB&D for recorded books, not all his texts will be available. If that is the case, having a Kursweil reader available on campus is a lifesaver, although they are costly and then someone must hand feed the pages through the device to transfer them to audio files.
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Chedva
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Posted: Mon Jul 14th, 2008 01:47 pm |
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I don't know all the ins and outs of Rochester's accommodations for LDs, but I do know that they have some significant ones. When there is a need, they hire students in various classes to take notes for those who cannot, and post those notes on the class website (and these are paid positions for the notetakers). I believe they also hire student readers to assist those who have difficulty reading. (Can you tell I'm a Rochester parent?  )
Here's their website on LD:
http://www.rochester.edu/College/LAS/index.php?a=d&area=dsupport
Good luck to you and your son!
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shawbridge
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Posted: Mon Jul 14th, 2008 01:50 pm |
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Thanks, Westrnmom. He does use RFB&D for textbooks and Kurzweil (the school loaded some Kurzweil software on his laptop). Given the changing edition problem, understanding whether they have a Kurzweil reader and someone who scans in textbooks, articles, etc. is something important to learn. I'm OK paying someone to do it, if that is necessary, but they have to have the core technology. [That does require lots of planning ahead on my son's part that we've probably done much of in the past.
I gather that one of the difficulties with accommodations at colleges is that many of the colleges require the student to come by and arrange for the accommodation each time (e.g., arrange extra time before each individual test). This requires advance planning.
I'll research University of the Redlands and University of the Pacific. I've heard of them but know nothing else. I'm not placing the West high on my list because if my son had health problems and needed some quick help, it would be a lot easier to do from 2 or 4 hours drive than a flight to CA. But, he suggested Stanford and I know that there are lots of good schools in CA. One of his friends is going to one of the Claremont Colleges.
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shawbridge
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Posted: Mon Jul 14th, 2008 01:55 pm |
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Thanks, Chedva. My older sister went to Rochester as well (many years ago). I believe that she got a very good education there. They had some very good economists and political scientists there, if I remember correctly, though they have probably moved on in one way or another.
My father was very pleased at her going there (his general criterion was that a school was good if it had a good physics department). As a result of regular visits to Rochester, he started co-authoring papers with a physicist there.
What I do remember distinctly is that every time she called home in the first year (lots), it was snowing. Is that still the case or is global warming having an impact.
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Chedva
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Posted: Mon Jul 14th, 2008 02:03 pm |
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| They still have some excellent economics and poli sci professors, and the departments are still considered strong. And yes, every time my d called home, from late October to March, it was snowing.
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