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Consolation
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Posted: Fri Jan 18th, 2008 11:07 pm |
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After S was deferred from his EA school, we decided to have an emergency consult with a private counselor to get a reality check on the application and his list before submitting more apps. (We were scheduled to have one with the GC, but there was a snow day and then we were into vacation, so there was no help to be had there before 1/1.)
The counselor suggested that yes, it was a good idea to send an additional recommendation. He also suggested sending a resume as an update, especially since he found that S's awards and activities really did not fully come across on the Common App.
So we sent a rec from his violin teacher--which was also good because it reinforced his personal statement--and a week later we sent a resume, which included more personal motivation/detail on his academic choices and activities, and much more clearly listed his awards. (The latter had had to be abbreviated into gobbledeygook to fit into the CA space.) He had also earned another varsity letter and gotten into the All-State Orchestra since sending the CA, but those things weren't highlighted on the resume.
Today we found out that he is on the Presidential Scholar nominee list. My question is this: is it worth sending a letter stating this? They already know his SAT scores, obviously, but this does place them in another context. (And his classmates who are applying to some of the same schools are not on the list.) Is this going to be one piece of paper too many? (We've sent 2 extra sheets to date...)
My view of all of that "don't dare send an extra piece of paper!" stuff is jaundiced, since I found out that my son's classmate who got into their EA school sent FOUR recs, instead of the required two.
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outwest
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Posted: Sat Jan 19th, 2008 06:56 am |
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My feeling is, at this point you might as well do whatever you can. Maybe it would help, maybe not. Maybe it would irk them, maybe not. You really don't know, but what do you have to lose? He shouldn't slam them with endless paper, but if he is named for an honor he should let them know. He could email and ask the counselor to add it to his admission packet. Nothing could hurt at this point. Look at those second choice schools favorably, too. I recall that he has a list of awesome schools, many of which thousands of kids would love to go to. He should let them know also, preferably all at once. Any school should be very happy to have him.
Bottom line? My advise (good or bad I have no idea):
Send them all the crap you can dig up. 
Last edited on Sat Jan 19th, 2008 07:12 am by outwest
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CarolynLawrence
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Posted: Sat Jan 19th, 2008 09:44 pm |
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| Here's what I would do: If his mid-year report hasn't yet been sent, I would ask the guidance counselor to write an additional letter of recommendation to accompany it (this is not automatically done by most schools), and have them mention the presidential scholar nomination in that letter. That will give it a little more credence and perhaps help it stand out a little more than if your son just sent another letter himself. Additionally, it will give the GC another chance to reiterate what an excellent candidate he is -- a second GC letter never, ever hurts. Last edited on Sat Jan 19th, 2008 09:45 pm by CarolynLawrence
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Consolation
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Posted: Sat Jan 19th, 2008 10:58 pm |
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Outwest, you are too funny. I love the elegance of your expression.
Carolyn, that's a good idea. The semester doesn't close until the end of next week, so they won't have sent out the reports. I'll contact her on Monday and see what I can get done. I might be able to get her to mention the varsity letter and All-State, also.
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CarolynLawrence
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Posted: Sat Jan 19th, 2008 11:44 pm |
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| If at all possible, your son should be the one to talk to the guidance counselor and give her/him the list of things to be included on the mid-year report. He'll need to turn in his mid-year report form to the GC anyhow. As a counselor myself, I find I am more inclined to help kids when they are the ones coming to ask for my help rather than a parent calling and asking me to do it. I also find that when kids are pro-active themselves I have a chance to ask more questions and often find additional positive things to say about them in letters of recommendation that I might not get from the parent. Of course, if you aren't sure the GC will do it after your son talks to the GC, a follow up call or email would be OK.
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outwest
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Posted: Sun Jan 20th, 2008 01:36 am |
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As usual, Carolyn has the best advise, but I had a good time anyway. 
My D's finals are next week, too. Their deadline to turn in the midreport rec. was last week. This weekend she is holed up in her room with a hot cup of tea and a donut. She is so cute. She looked at me with determined eyes and told me she was going to study all weekend and if I saw her watching TV to yell at her! Right now she has a B in AP Government, A's and A-'s in everything else. Our school doesn't report the minuses. Her goal is all A's, but she said she would be happy with all A's and one B. It has been a really tough semester for herwith three APs. She knows kids who have solid APs
I will be glad when it's over.
Last edited on Sun Jan 20th, 2008 01:40 am by outwest
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Consolation
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Posted: Sun Jan 20th, 2008 03:24 pm |
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Although we have PowerSchool, which would enable me to look up his grades, I haven't done so. He knows what the story is. It's up to him at this point. Frankly, I don't think I even want to see his report card.
I, too, will be happy when it's done.
Bizarrely, S told me that when he tried to hand in a midyear report request right after the 1st the guidance secretary said they didn't send them. Is this possible?
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CarolynLawrence
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Posted: Sun Jan 20th, 2008 04:59 pm |
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No, it is not possible. ALL high schools send these as they are required by most colleges and colleges won't make decisions in many cases unless they get them.
The secretary probably didn't understand what he was talking about or he called it something she didn't recognize.
As with the original school report, he needs to give his GC the mid-year report form with a request for his full transcript after first semester grades are released. Since the secretary seemed clueless, I would have him talk directly to the GC.
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Consolation
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Posted: Sat Jan 26th, 2008 12:44 pm |
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I spoke to the secretary myself when calling on another matter--we have just begun hosting an exchange student--and she explained that they send out the midyear transcripts to all colleges to which the kids have applied, but they do not fill out mid year report forms because they don't have time. She also checked for me to see for which schools they had his prestamped envelopes--all, thankfully-- and I told her to delete two addressed to schools to which he had decided not to apply.
I also "innocently" asked the GC her opinion about informing schools of the Presidential Scholar thing, and she suggested that he send them an email, which makes it fairly clear that she isn't going to be too open to writing a supporting note for him, although I suppose he could ask....
An email doesn't seem like the best form of communication to me. I was thinking that he should send a brief letter mentioning the PS nomination and his two additional updates (all-state orchestra and varsity letter). Reiterating his interest in Yale would not be a bad idea, either, I assume. At least he'd know he did everything he could.
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Consolation
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Posted: Sat Jan 26th, 2008 12:54 pm |
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outwest wrote: It has been a really tough semester for herwith three APs. She knows kids who have solid APs
I will be glad when it's over.
Mine had AP Calc, AP Physics, AP Chem, AP Spanish, and an AP French Lit independent study, plus a big senior honors interdisciplinary course and an "AP thread" honors English course first semester. indeed!
Now he has "International Foods and Cultures" instead of the AP English course, fulfilling a graduation requirement in "Allied Arts." It sounds fairly ridiculous amongst all his other courses, but I guess he deserves a break.
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CarolynLawrence
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Posted: Sat Jan 26th, 2008 04:19 pm |
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Consolation, Your son needs to be the one asking the counselor. As I said, I am much more inclined to say "yes" when a student asks me to write an extra letter of recommendation than I am when a parent asks. It is easy to put off parents in a busy day, but a student who sincerely is asking for help will always get my full attention.
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outwest
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Posted: Sat Jan 26th, 2008 04:39 pm |
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Oh...my D would LOVE to take that foods class! It sounds terrific. She had AP Calculus last year, thank goodness. Her school has a year of the arts in the same art as a requirement. She had Photography, Choir and Ceramics ( more then fullfilling that requirement), but has no art at all this year. She had very little choice of which classes to take when she had to choose between AP Stats, AP German or AP Physics (all only offered the same two periods). She chose Physics and German, so no math this year at all. If they had had that foods class she would have jumped on it. As it is, she took Philosophy and Sociology/ Humanities and Psychology. She is drowning in liberal arts this year. The only other choices left were to take free periods (bad for college admissions), graduate midyear (she has enough credits, but what would she do this semester?), take some community college classes (too much hassle) or aNOther art. So, she has Philosophy, Sociology, AP German, AP Literature, Economics and Physics this last semester. She already had the other sciences (chem, biology, AP Environmental).
He must have already had four years of English then? The AP English classes here are all a year long (you can't take only one semester of them). Also, our high school requires economics and government senior year. She just finished AP Government and is taking Econ. starting Monday. Does your school require those?
They just need to get through this last semester of high school!
As far as the topic of this thread goes, our high school basically sends our the midyear report. The counselor said if anything major has changed they make a note of it on the CA report. Otherwise, they just send the midyear report. In your sons case, it would be awfully nice if they mentioned the other things he has gotten on his. Can he go and talk to the counselor? His schools are all highly competitive and those little items would help his other apps, too. If you think they wouldn't be receptive to that, then by all means email admissions at all his schools, not just his favorite.
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Deja
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Posted: Sun Jan 27th, 2008 01:03 pm |
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"The only other choices left were to take free periods (bad for college admissions)"
Are free periods bad for college admissions?
My city's high schools don't have a designated lunch period. The only way a student gets a lunch period is to have a free block. 30 minutes of that 94-minute block is lunch, and the rest study hall. Most students have a free block every other day (so they take seven courses).
My son refuses to have a free block, which he claims is a total waste of his time. So he takes 8 classes each year (he's a junior, so this is the third year of this). He has NO break during the day. He eats his lunch (actually a snack) during class (allowed).
I wonder if colleges don't like to see a free block with this type of class scheduling? Hmmm...
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scoop
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Posted: Sun Jan 27th, 2008 01:25 pm |
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| That is an interesting question. I have encouraged my daughter to try to schedule a study hall for her senior year. It probably won't work out other than the two free periods a week on days she does not have science/lab because she does not want to drop French. Why can't a study hall been seen as good time management skills for those who wish to take one? We have all 8 classes on Monday and then six each day with a lunch. Your lunch period on Monday falls whenever your "free" period is. This year, it happens to fall at 8am for my daughter so she does not each lunch on Mondays. They are not allowed to eat in the classrooms due to allergy issues. Our high school just admitted that they are breaking the law...seems you have to offer at least a 20 minute lunch period between 10 and 1. They will have to change the scheduling for next year but for now, I had to sign a waiver saying I accepted her lunch where it was. They are changing second semester schedules for those that did not sign the waiver but it usually means having to make big schedule changes and/or drop classes that you were scheduled for. Last edited on Sun Jan 27th, 2008 01:26 pm by scoop
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outwest
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Posted: Sun Jan 27th, 2008 04:24 pm |
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Wow. I know some of you don't have a scheduled lunch period and it just blows me away. I think that SHOULD be against the law. How can they expect the kids to feel good shoveling lunch in during class? Doesn't it make for lots of mess in the classrooms? When do they socialize? Lunch is the great social period at our HS. HS students NEED to socialize!
Our HS has six regular periods a day. There are also zero period and 7th period PE offerings (they have to take 2 years of PE), but not many people do them. School sports are all after school. Six periods is plenty: math, science, foreign language, english, history and one elective. Even those who choose to take solids all four years still have an elective space. Many drop language, science or even math after a couple years and end up in senior year with three elective spots. English is taken all four years. Each period is 53 minutes long.
Everyone has lunch at the exact same time in the middle of the day for 45 minutes. Her HS has 2200 kids in it. I have been there during lunch on a couple occasions and they are all having a great time chatting and playing and eating.
The day is 7:45 am - 2:45 pm .
Why do you need 7 or 8 periods?
Doesn't that make each class shorter or do they go to school longer?
Last edited on Sun Jan 27th, 2008 04:32 pm by outwest
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scoop
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Posted: Sun Jan 27th, 2008 05:42 pm |
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| Our day runs from 7:30 to 1:52. D has a full schedule and this year has science, graphics, history, pe/art (3 yrs of PE required), english, french and math...7 classes. On Mondays, they have 8 periods - seven classes and your 'free' period, which on Mondays, is when you are supposed to have lunch. The rest of the week we have six periods so you end up with each class four days per week. Lab sciences have one double period per week so she ends up with three free periods per week. Lunch is scheduled in four waves during 5th period, which is an extended class. I believe you go to class, leave for your 30 minute or so lunch and then back to class. The usual class period is 50 minutes long. According to my D they are not allowed to eat in class..on busy days she tries to eat something in the hallway on the way to class. I am glad they are finally addressing this issue, she eats a good breakfast and is just not hungry at 8am. We have about 1800 students in an overcrowded building with portable classrooms.
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HijinksAndSue
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Posted: Sun Jan 27th, 2008 06:26 pm |
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My DD's school is 2000 students with seven classes a day plus a period they call STEP ... STEP can be treated as a lunch period but it's also a time when some of the extra-curricular clubs meet, and all teachers are in their classrooms to be available to give extra help, makeup tests, etc.
I believe her class schedule runs from 7:30 (maybe 7:20) a.m. to 2:20 p.m. STEP is from 10:45 to 11:45.
This semester, however, they just added something called "Village Time." It's an additional half-hour a day slotted in as a study hall for everyone ... I think each day it moves from one period to another so no one class ends up getting cut short.
Apparently there was a huge upsurge in academically ineligible students last semester so they're hoping that this helps ...
Since my DD was bummed out that she didn't have a free period second semester hopefully this will be of some help ... last year she was an aide to the theatre teacher and was able to use that period as a study hall when needed since it was second period. This year she has an independent study class first period but will actually be working on projects so she can't count on it as study time (though I think if she had a big AP Lit test second period, her first period teacher would probably let her use the time to study).
A lot of her friends were able to drop classes and work out a half-day schedule this semester but I wouldn't let her do that. I'm the meanest mom in the world
I figure if she does get into her first choice school (four more days until we find out) she can relax a little more, but if she doesn't she'll really need the full schedule (which isn't that demanding anyway, since three of them are music classes) so it won't appear like she's trying to coast through senioritis.
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Consolation
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Posted: Sun Jan 27th, 2008 07:20 pm |
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outwest wrote: He must have already had four years of English then? The AP English classes here are all a year long (you can't take only one semester of them). Also, our high school requires economics and government senior year. She just finished AP Government and is taking Econ. starting Monday. Does your school require those?
The year-long Humanities class he is taking can be counted as English or History or Art History, if memory serves. I think he's counting it as half English and half Art History. With that plus Classic Novel the first semester he has 4 years of English.
All juniors and seniors at our high school take semester English courses, selecting from a long list. Instead of having a full-year "AP English" class, they have what they call an "AP Thread" of honors semester classes that includes Poetry, Shakespeare, Classic Novel, Composition, Explorations in Literature, and so forth. I can't remember them all, but there are about 8. Kids can take whichever they choose, and can choose whether to take the AP English exams.
The state requires all students to take a year of US History that has to cover a certain period. The way the school has organized it, kids have to take this year of history before they can take AP USH. (My S isn't taking AP USH because he chose to take a second AP science, so there's no room in his schedule.) There is no Econ requirement.
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outwest
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Posted: Sun Jan 27th, 2008 08:24 pm |
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Your system in certainly different then ours. World History is Sophomore, US History is Junior and American Government and Economics (a semester of each) are senior. You choose whether to take the AP versions or the regular versions (you have to meet other requirements for the AP version, also). You can also take them in summer school if you are a heavy theater or music kid that just has to have more of those classes during the year.
There are also lots of English elective choices for kids who want extra English (like Creative writing, Journalism, Modern Poetry, etc), but everyone takes Freshman English (unless you test out of it), Sophomore English (which is Classics), Junior English or AP Composition, Senior English (either British or Modern) or AP Literature. All four years they integrate Shakespeare, Poetry, modern classics, etc. into the classes with heavy writing in all of them.
The sciences are required Freshman Biology, Sophomore Chemistry (or Physical Science if you don't get an A in Biology), Junior and Senior years you can choose from all the AP sciences or other sciences (Physics, Anatomy, Physiology, etc.) or not take any more science.
Math is the normal sequence, but you are tracked starting as a 7th grader on the AP Calc. tract or the regular tract with some in the middle. Some finish the entire track in Junior year (like my D- either AB or BC) and some as a senior. Those who finish as a Junior can go to the local colleges for more math if they like. Most of the kids above my D in class rank are at the local colleges taking their math (or their English if they tested out of Freshman English). They get extra points for that. My D took Senior English-British as a Junior so she wouldn't have to go off campus as a senior- that is another option. She is in AP Lit. now.
The high school really twists their arms to take the AP tests. If they can't pay for the tests then the high school pays for them! I think that is very cool. We have over 80% of the kids in the AP classes taking the tests. Smaller schools have trouble offering all the APs because the teachers (at least at our school) have to have at least a Bachelors in that subject to teach the AP version. Some have Masters and a few even have PhDs! My Ds German teacher has a PhD, taught college fulltime for a while and decided she liked high school kids better. She teaches one class at the colleges and four at the high school. We feel really lucky to have her. I wonder what kind of pay cut she took to do that?
Although my D passed out of both Freshman English and finished Calc as a Junior, she chose to NOT go to the Claremont Colleges for those two subjects this year. She said she wasn't ready to go to college and I supported her in her decision. Other then those decisions, she has taken full advantage of her high school. Hopefully it will be enough for the schools she applied to and she won't be looked down on because of it. if they do, then they aren't the right college for her anyway. That's my attitiude. She is more then ready to go to college now!
It doesn't matter much how different high schools do things. The colleges judge the kids by what they have available to them. The SATs or ACTs are the great equalizer country wide.
This is way off topic. Sorry. I guess I am bored this rainy Sunday afternoon.
Last edited on Sun Jan 27th, 2008 08:38 pm by outwest
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Consolation
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Posted: Mon Jan 28th, 2008 12:55 pm |
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There are some similarites. Our kids do take Freshman and Sophomore English, and as in your situation poetry, Shakespeare, etc are integrated into the curricula. There is a lot of writing, and a major research paper in every course. The AP thread electives generally include large research papers also. The emphasis in 9th grade is, IIRC, on things like the Odyssey, while the 10th grade emphasis is American Lit. The only required jr/sr elective--a contradiction in terms!--is composition, which can be taken at CP or Honors (ie, the AP thread) level.
The English department doesn't push the kids to take the AP tests, but the others definitely do.
In the sciences, all freshmen take Foundations of Science, which is actually a substantive and rigorous course, especially at the Honors level. (To my surprise. I expected it to be one of those "General Science" time-wasters.) After that, they can take the other sciences at the CP, Honors, or AP level. They've changed the science program over the last couple of years so that honors Foundations tracks the kids directly to the AP level if they wish, instead of taking the "regular" version first. (They do Chem before Bio, which makes sense.) There is also a science research option, in which kids can pursue independent or team research under the guidance of the staff. Some kids, including a recent Seimens winner, pursue a single avenue for several years, which I think is a great opportunity.
We do not have good options for taking courses at the college level. The University of Southern Maine has a program called Early Studies, for jrs and srs, but it is very, very difficult to schedule a class. The only kids I've encountered who are actually taking classes there are either homeschooled, or taking the majority of their schedule at the college. For a kid doing sports or theater after school, the only option is an evening course. And since my S has youth symphony and track meets on certain nights, most of those were out also. My S wanted to take a philosophy course there sophomore year, and the ES people wouldn't help us because he wasn't a jr! The professor, whose permission was required to take the course because he wasn't in ES, completely ignored all of our telephone calls and emails. He was out of the country for 3 wks before term started, and then sick at the beginning, but to this day he never did so much as drop a line saying "Sorry I couldn't get back to you." Unfortunately, this was the second time we had this kind of very negative experience with one of their departments blowing us off, so after that we just said the hell with it, and S did an independent study instead.
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