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*seniorboysmom*
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Posted: Fri Nov 2nd, 2007 02:58 pm |
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I know that this is not the ideal thing to do, but S wants to ask AP History teacher/World Religions and AP Gov teacher for his rec's. (Already asked the AP History teacher, but dragging his heals on the second one) His passion is history and gov, and is next to positive that he will major in Poli Sci in college. They definitely are his strongest subjects. I know the theory of getting one rec from a weaker subject, but he really wants these teachers, and he is asking my opinion....
Does anyone think it can really hurt?
Last edited on Fri Nov 2nd, 2007 02:59 pm by *seniorboysmom*
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mackinaw
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Posted: Fri Nov 2nd, 2007 03:20 pm |
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Hi SBM,
I've never heard of the theory that letters should come from stronger and weaker subjects. What I understood is that there were two "rules." (1) follow carefully what the college admissions office requests, and (2) get letters from teachers who know you well, like your work, and can write a thoughtful and effective letter about you.
I stress #1 because some colleges clearly say which subjects are allowed and some don't. For example, some say "core subjects" which generally is understood as science, social science, and English/language -- and not, for example PE or journalism or music or art (though some might interpret music and art these as core, certainly for a student who wants to study music or art in college). Generally speaking students tend to seek letters from a "science" teacher and a "social studies" or an "English/Language" instructor. But I don't know that this is really "the rule."
Some also expect the letters to come from teachers in your most advanced courses, but will accept letters from other teachers (my daughter even had one from 10th grade).
But this is where "rule" #2 comes in: if you can get an excellent recommendation from a 10th or 11th grade teacher, one who knows you well and can speak about you as a person and as a student, then go for it UNLESS rule 1 clearly specifies that the letter writers should be from advanced courses.
Last edited on Fri Nov 2nd, 2007 03:30 pm by mackinaw
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Chedva
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Posted: Fri Nov 2nd, 2007 03:25 pm |
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| I've also seen schools that do ask that the recommendations be from different subject areas. Check the schools' websites. If they're silent on the subject, then two from the same discipline should be OK.
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*seniorboysmom*
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Posted: Fri Nov 2nd, 2007 03:29 pm |
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Thanks so much for such quick answers!!!!
I will have him check the school's websites today-
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DesperateDad
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Posted: Fri Nov 2nd, 2007 03:31 pm |
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| UChicago is one school that requires recs from different core academic subjects.
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Consolation
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Posted: Fri Nov 2nd, 2007 04:01 pm |
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DesperateDad wrote: UChicago is one school that requires recs from different core academic subjects. Yup. My S's two basic recs are from his AP Bio teacher (11th grade) and his AP French teacher (multiple grades, including 11 and 12). So for the U of C, he is going to have to ask an English or History teacher in addition, since they won't accept the French teacher for that requirement. We decided that it made more sense to do it that way, rather than stick rigidly to the same two people and in doing so forego what is sure to be a great rec from his French teacher. The U of C will just get three recs instead of two. 
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Lupine
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Posted: Fri Nov 2nd, 2007 10:17 pm |
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Yikes -- foreign languages aren't considered core courses? Is this just University of Chicago or is this more general? D's Latin teacher would write her a dynamite recommendation.
Last edited on Fri Nov 2nd, 2007 10:18 pm by Lupine
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mackinaw
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Posted: Fri Nov 2nd, 2007 11:05 pm |
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I'm going to reiterate what I wrote earlier about Rule #1: follow the instructions given by the admissions office of each college. Chicago is just one college; others may do it differently.
Schools who use the Common Application presumably follow the instructions on the Teacher Recommendation forms for the Common Application (Chicago itself may do this in practice in future if, indeed, it doesn't already do so):
Give this form to a teacher who has taught you an academic subject (for example English, foreign language, math, science, or social studies).
However, to be sure about what each college actually prefers, go to their admissions website and see whether there may be other specifications or preferences.
Last edited on Fri Nov 2nd, 2007 11:10 pm by mackinaw
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Consolation
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Posted: Fri Nov 2nd, 2007 11:13 pm |
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Lupine wrote: Yikes -- foreign languages aren't considered core courses? Is this just University of Chicago or is this more general? D's Latin teacher would write her a dynamite recommendation.
As far as I know, it's just the U of C. They specify that one rec must be from science/math, and one from English/social studies. I actually asked if foreign language teachers counted at an info session, and received a very definite "no."
I don't think that it means they don't consider languages "core," but probably reason that most language students don't do extensive writing in those classes, and they want a teacher from a writing-intensive class. Or so I have assumed.
I'm fairly sure that none of the other schools on my son's still very long possibles list has this requirement.
I would not hesitate to include a recommendation from a Latin teacher, especially if it would be a great one. But if applying to the U of C, I'd make it the third.
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CarolynLawrence
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Posted: Sat Nov 3rd, 2007 11:46 pm |
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Lupine wrote: Yikes -- foreign languages aren't considered core courses? Is this just University of Chicago or is this more general? D's Latin teacher would write her a dynamite recommendation.
Foreign language teachers are fine for most colleges (By the way, one of my son's teacher recommendations was from his Latin teacher).
However, in college admissions, never assume that what is true at one college will be true at all colleges. Keep in mind that sometimes what they require and what they prefer can be two different things, so ask the right question - not "is it OK to submit two letters from the same subject area" but "do you prefer recs from different subject areas?" This is where the information on a college website gets tricky - it usually only tells you what is required, not necessarily what they prefer -- for that, ask the admissions office directly.
There are times when recommendations from the same subject area can make sense, but in doing so you give up an opportunity to show yourself as strong in different areas. Math and science teachers are likely to talk about different skills and classroom behavior than English, social studies, and foreign language teachers. So, IF you have teachers in different areas, it can add important information in some cases. But, there is also nothing wrong with recs from a math and science teacher (as MIT specifies) or from an English and foreign language or social studies teacher (especially if you are a humanities/social science type). It really depends on the student, the school, and the teachers.
I will add one more thing: Most colleges prefer that the recommendations come from a junior or senior teacher. Just like they focus more on grades in those years as an indicator of how you're likely to do in college, they tend to believe that recommendations from teachers who taught you most recently are a more reliable indicator than a teacher who taught you in sophomore year.
Finally, one other thing to keep in mind: the importance of recommendations tends to rise along with the selectivity level of the college. Colleges that admit 50% or more of applicants don't tend to put quite the same weight on recommendations as those that are highly selective (say admitting 30% or less). So, the more selective the schools, the more care needs to be put into choosing the right people to write your recommendations.
Last edited on Sat Nov 3rd, 2007 11:56 pm by CarolynLawrence
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Consolation
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Posted: Sun Nov 4th, 2007 01:50 am |
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Finally, one other thing to keep in mind: the importance of recommendations tends to rise along with the selectivity level of the college. Colleges that admit 50% or more of applicants don't tend to put quite the same weight on recommendations as those that are highly selective (say admitting 30% or less). So, the more selective the schools, the more care needs to be put into choosing the right people to write your recommendations.
Carolyn, do you think that the more selective schools hold it against the kid if the teacher who does the recommendation isn't a very good writer? I'm hoping that what the teacher says about the kid matter more than how they say it.
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CarolynLawrence
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Posted: Sun Nov 4th, 2007 02:16 am |
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| Admissions people have told me that they are looking first and foremost at what the teacher has to say about the student. They say that they don't expect every teacher recommendation to be a literary work of art, but that if there are a lot of typos and grammatical errors, they may, in some cases, wonder just a bit about the teacher's judgement. However, they're still more concerned with what the recommendation says about the student, than what it says about the teacher.
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Chedva
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Posted: Sun Nov 4th, 2007 12:09 pm |
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One thing to remember as well - the recommendations need not come from teachers in whose classes your son got A's. My d is a humanties/social sciences kid. Never took an AP science, doesn't particularly like science. She took physics as a junior and never got above a B+. But her second recommendation came from her physics teacher. Why? Because he liked her, he liked her intellectual curiosity, he liked the fact that she worked hard in physics despite the fact that she wasn't interested in the subject. In fact, he volunteered to write the recommendation.
While we never saw the letter, given her admissions results, I have to believe that he wrote a glowing one.
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scoop
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Posted: Sun Nov 4th, 2007 02:04 pm |
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Chedva,
I was interested in what you had to say regarding the recommendation from the physics teacher. My daughter has A's/Aplus in all subjects except math...she has taken honors all along and started high school math in middle school...but she is a solid B student. D is considering having her math teacher write a recommendation and happens to have had the same teacher in sophmore and junior year. She feels that this teacher will speak to her work ethic, her effort and her willingness to challenge herself rather than take the easier class for a higher grade. Even though D wants to attend art school, I think the character traits her teacher sees will be a strong point in this area as well.
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Consolation
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Posted: Sat Dec 1st, 2007 03:46 am |
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We ran into one of my S's recommending teachers this afternoon in the school parking lot. He and she exchanged some pleasant words, then he ran off to practice. I enjoyed witnessing their affectionate interaction. She told me that she had run her rec by the GC because "she wanted to make sure she had done everything she could for him." She said she thinks he'll get in to his first choice, then stopped and said she shouldn't jinx it by saying so. I told her we really appreciated her effort, and that we would let her know as soon as we heard anything.
What a sweet lady! Teachers are the oject of so many people's ire these days and get such a bum rap from so many sources. Most of them are so dedicated to the kids...it was just so touching.
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CarolynLawrence
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Posted: Sat Dec 1st, 2007 05:53 pm |
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| That's so nice Consolation! I know that the teachers at my high school really work hard on their recommendations for students, and it is always nice when they are thanked, so I am sure your son's teacher appreciated you saying what you did.
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