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CarolynLawrence
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Posted: Sat Sep 29th, 2007 12:34 am |
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As I mentioned in another thread, I and several other college counselors have been vehemently expressing our displeasure with the changes to this year's Common App interface to Rob Killian, the CA's executive director.
Today, in an email, Rob Killian said that the Common App board met this week and is "considering" changing "three or four questions" so that they can be answered in different ways for different colleges. "We're currently talking with our technology provider about providing that functionality in a manner that also allows us to remain true to our mission." If any changes will be made, the CA will let counselors know by the end of next week. I will pass along any news I receive as soon as I get it.
Thanks in particular to Leftcoast for suggesting the other options in addition to the Universal College Application. I believe it was an exchange of emails between college counselors where I shared those links that convinced the CA folks to take the questions we counselors were asking seriously, or risk having students go elsewhere. Let's keep our fingers crossed.
Last edited on Sat Sep 29th, 2007 12:37 am by CarolynLawrence
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outwest
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Posted: Sat Sep 29th, 2007 12:37 am |
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Isn't this almost too late for this year? My D has already filled out a good chunk of it (except the essay LOL). I suppose she has time to change it if she wants to.
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CarolynLawrence
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Posted: Sat Sep 29th, 2007 11:02 pm |
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| No, it is definitely NOT too late. Remember, most schools RD deadlines are in January and some are even later than that. Plus, kids who get deferred or rejected ED/EA may want to "tweak" parts of their applications before sending out additional applications, and ED/EA news won't come out until December.
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skibum
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Posted: Sat Oct 6th, 2007 07:56 pm |
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| Ok-- time for a really dumb question. What are the areas on the common app that if you could, you would want to tweak for different schools? My s asked me this and to be honest, I wasn't sure. Also, he is unsure where to put the 3 week (not officially graded per se) TIP/CTY programs. Do those go under "extracurricular, personal and volunteer (including summer)" section or the "List all other secondary schools, including summer schools as well as summer and other programs you have attended" sections. Help. please?
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CarolynLawrence
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Posted: Sat Oct 6th, 2007 09:56 pm |
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skibum wrote: Ok-- time for a really dumb question. What are the areas on the common app that if you could, you would want to tweak for different schools? My s asked me this and to be honest, I wasn't sure. Also, he is unsure where to put the 3 week (not officially graded per se) TIP/CTY programs. Do those go under "extracurricular, personal and volunteer (including summer)" section or the "List all other secondary schools, including summer schools as well as summer and other programs you have attended" sections. Help. please?
An update - The Common Application people now are saying they will not have an answer on unlocking parts of the application until September 12 - next Friday. Sigh.
Skibum, you could in the "old version" change anything and everything between submitting to different colleges. For instance, if you were applying for different majors at one school, you could do so. You could also change the order of extracurriculars, essays, etc.
One other issue with the new interface that was just brought to my attention this week by a student -- if you are submitting to an SAT optional school, you will now have no way of not sending them your test scores in your application.
As for Skibum's other question -- if a summer program was educational in nature -- i.e., a class in dance, a CTY type program, attending a college high school program, etc. --, it goes under the summer programs section. If it was a community service type of thing (i.e., a church trip to do service), it should probably go under extracurriculars.
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WestrnMom
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| Joined: | Fri May 26th, 2006 |
| Location: | West Coast, USA |
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Posted: Sat Oct 6th, 2007 10:36 pm |
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Did you mean Friday, October 12?
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Wendy (wjb)
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Posted: Sun Oct 7th, 2007 05:02 pm |
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Re paper vs. online submissions for the Common App: I think there is general agreement that colleges mean it when they say keep your main essay under 600 words. Don’t they also mean it when they say submit your applications online? Why honor one preference but ignore the other? Despite the potential “tweaking” benefits of submitting applications on paper, I’m reluctant to encourage my kid to do it. (I’m not sure he’d be willing to anyway, but that’s another subject. )
Also, Carolyn, many thanks for approaching the Common App folks with this issue!
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skibum
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Posted: Mon Oct 8th, 2007 06:21 pm |
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Thanks, Carolyn. to clarify my q about the summer religious program, it was a 3 week program (like TIP/CTY) that explored social and religious issues. It seems like it belongs where the TIP stuff goes, but he did TIP for 3 summers and did this religious program so there are 4 summer programs and only room for 3. Sigh.
And I wondered too about the date for this Fridays update, as did westrnmom- Oct 12?
Last edited on Mon Oct 8th, 2007 06:21 pm by skibum
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Consolation
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| Joined: | Mon Apr 9th, 2007 |
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Posted: Thu Oct 18th, 2007 01:29 pm |
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CarolynLawrence wrote:
As for Skibum's other question -- if a summer program was educational in nature -- i.e., a class in dance, a CTY type program, attending a college high school program, etc. --, it goes under the summer programs section. If it was a community service type of thing (i.e., a church trip to do service), it should probably go under extracurriculars.
Here's another question: the common app has a place for *secondary* school summer programs and *college* courses.
Which one does CTY go under? (The secondary school space includes a search engine that lists ONLY high schools as options, so it doesn't seem to fit.)
I just read part of Hernandez' book on applications, and the Common App completely disallows her entire strategy regarding activities: there simply isn't room to say anything, OR to even list all of a kid's activities. It really sucks. Seven slots? Are they kidding? Just studying an instrument, playing in the youth symphony, and attending 2 string camps takes up 4 slots, leaving enough room only for his 3 major sports and leaving out all kinds of other things.
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CarolynLawrence
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Posted: Fri Oct 19th, 2007 08:15 pm |
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Consolation wrote: Just studying an instrument, playing in the youth symphony, and attending 2 string camps takes up 4 slots, leaving enough room only for his 3 major sports and leaving out all kinds of other things.
The three things you mentioned are all "music" activities so you don't need separate slots for them. This is a perfect example of where including a separate activity sheet would work -- that would give him an opportunity to list the specifics.
As for the seven slots - all of the admissions people I've ever talked to (and that's many!) have all indicated that they're more interested in seeing quality and passion in activities, not quantity. They like the seven slots because they feel it forces students to choose and focus in on which activites are MOST IMPORTANT to them.
It is fine to send a one page activity sheet (possibly two pages if it is well-organized and absolutely necessary) giving more details about the activities which are most important to the student, but, contrary to what Ms. Hernandez says, more than that is overkill in the eyes of admissions people these days. When the admissions committee sits down, they like to be able to quickly summarize the student's main interests/talents: (i.e., the equestrian-artist, the musician-theater kid, the athlete-poet).
Instead of Michelle Hernandez's book, the book I would recommend for you to read is a book called How To Get Into the Top Colleges by Richard Montauk. He is much more realistic and accurate about how admissions decisions are made than Hernandez, relying less on "tricks" and more on good old fashioned common sense.
CTY should be listed under summer programs. The CTY courses are not for college credit. You can just type in "Johns Hopkins Center for Talented Youth," (same for other programs not listed)
Last edited on Fri Oct 19th, 2007 08:32 pm by CarolynLawrence
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Consolation
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Posted: Fri Oct 19th, 2007 08:44 pm |
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CarolynLawrence wrote: Consolation wrote: Just studying an instrument, playing in the youth symphony, and attending 2 string camps takes up 4 slots, leaving enough room only for his 3 major sports and leaving out all kinds of other things.
The three things you mentioned are all "music" activities so you don't need separate slots for them. This is a perfect example of where including a separate activity sheet would work -- that would give him an opportunity to list the specifics.
As for the seven slots - all of the admissions people I've ever talked to (and that's many!) have all indicated that they're more interested in seeing quality and passion in activities, not quantity. They like the seven slots because they feel it forces students to choose and focus in on which activites are MOST IMPORTANT to them.
Somehow, how you go about adding a separate activity sheet if you submit the application online has escaped me. Or are we talking about submitting it on paper? I'm beginning to think that would be better, contrary to my earlier conviction.
You know, Carolyn, I know that the seven slots will force kids to pick among activities, but I think that admissions people are being disingenuous. I can just see them saying, "Why no social service? Forget him!" if the kid doesn't ditch something that actually means more to him in favor of describing his monthly stint at the soup kitchen. (It's already been made clear in no uncertain terms that they don't want to hear about the 3 weeks he spent working with the Guatemala City garbage dump kids. They all sneer at kids who were moved by "trips to Costa Rica." Gee, maybe Guatemala counts after all since it wasn't Costa Rica!)
I can't forget the girl from Newton who was urged to write from her heart, and then stomped all over because she dared to express heartfelt ambivalence about the milieu in which her grandparents lived. They SAY they want to hear the kids' own voice and what the kid is really interested in, but it had better be the RIGHT voice and you had better be interested in the RIGHT things. And doG help you if you are an introvert, is all I can say!
He hasn't even been rejected yet and I'm already cynical. 
Last edited on Fri Oct 19th, 2007 09:15 pm by Consolation
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CarolynLawrence
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Posted: Fri Oct 19th, 2007 11:17 pm |
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My daughter fit her activity sheet into the "additional information" section of the online Common Application. Most kids, however, mail theirs to the admissions office.
You might find this thread helpful -- it lists ten tips on activity resumes/activity lists that came directly from admissions officers: 10 Tips For Activity Resumes
I know it is hard not to be cynical about the admissions process, but, after watching hundreds of kids go through it, I still have faith in the process. It may not always work out exactly as the student (or parent) hopes for, but in 99.9% of cases, it works out pretty well when all is said and done.
Here's the thing to remember: colleges are indeed looking for genuineness in applicants. They don't want kids who worry about whether they should do a mission trip to Guam or Guatelmala. They don't want kids who sound like they're 45 years old in their essays. They want kids who show honest enthusiasm for who they are more than the experiences they've had or the achievements they've reached -- and colleges do recognize that most kids haven't invented a cure for cancer at age 17 (or even gone on that mission trip to Costa Rica). They also know that few (if any) kids are perfect, and that most still have a ways to go until they reach full maturity.
I've seen kids get into top colleges mainly because they followed their hearts in terms of pursuing activities that really interested them (instead of "looking good for college"). I've also seen kids write essays that worried 50-year-old me but that received rave reviews from the admissions officers (including those at top schools) after the student was admitted. I've also seen kids who didn't have parents and fancy independent counselors to help them think through every part of the application get into great schools. I've seen kids just be themselves, and do just fine in admissions. That's enough to keep me believing in the process.
I tell kids that if you have to pretend to be someone you're not in order to get in, then the school is probably not a good match for you to begin with.
Be yourself is always the best advice.
Yes, you don't have much room in the application to get who you are across, but neither does anyone else. You DO, however, also have the information you convey in your essays, your recommendations, your interviews, and any supplemental materials to add dimension to your admissions profile.
Now, that doesn't mean that every kid who pours their heart out in an essay, or is themselves in a college interview, will get into every college on their list. But, it does mean that kids will be able to live with themselves after the results are in because they haven't tried to be somebody they're not just to impress a bunch of strangers. I think it is very easy to get mistaken impressions about why a kid get in to a particular college when you're looking at it from the outside with just bits and pieces of what the admissions committee had before them and had to consider. I can, however, almost guarantee that the girl who wrote about her grandparents in Kentucky wasn't rejected SOLELY because she wrote about what was dear to her -- few kids are rejected over an essay alone.
Now, I know that Michele Hernandez won't agree with me -- but, she makes a living out of breeding fear. I believe that my role as a counselor is not to make kids (and parents) MORE scared, but rather more confident of who they are, regardless of the outcome of their college application process. As a parent, I feel the same way. Sure, I'd love to see my son get into his top choice college just as much as anyone else, but I don't think that getting in to any college will make him a better person, or be an indication that I'm a better parent.
As usual, I'll also beat the same drum: What really matters most in terms of admissions success is choosing the right schools to apply to in the first place, building a balanced, realistic list, and then treating each school on your list as if it is the one you'd love to attend. Ultimately, if you haven't picked the right list of schools to begin with (and that admittedly is not easy), it really doesn't matter WHAT you say in your application. Kids who have true safeties, and sincerely love them, sleep a lot better and feel a lot more comfortable about being themselves than students who have built a list entirely of reaches.
But, as parents, we also have to make sure that we keep straight that getting into any particular college is not a sign of how well we've raised our child, or any measure of our worth as parents. If we know we've raised our children to be good and honest people, that's much more important than where they end up going to college, at least in my opinion. And, frankly, that is what helps me sleep a lot better during the wait for college admissions results: I know I've raised a good kid, and I believe he will be fine where ever he ends up, both in college and in life.
Last edited on Sat Oct 20th, 2007 01:19 am by CarolynLawrence
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Canadian
Member
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Posted: Sat Oct 20th, 2007 12:14 am |
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| Beautiful post, Thank you.
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bumpyroad
Member
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Posted: Sat Oct 20th, 2007 01:49 pm |
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| Nicely said, Carolyn. And as far as the separate activity sheet goes, yesterday my D and I visited Stanford. At the info session the admissions person specifically said that they don't want separate resumes, implying that they ignore them, and repeating the point about the seven slots - that it's plenty of room to describe the most important activities. At the top schools at least, they're dealing with many thousands of applications, and I'm sure that they distill those seven slots down to just one or two.
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jocelynDAD
Member
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Posted: Sat Oct 20th, 2007 06:46 pm |
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Some how I think that portion of the application should be approached with the following comparison in mind:
The student is the cake and the EC's are the icing.
piling on icing after icing can only give a too sweet taste and could cause the cake itself to be ignored.
The seven slots should be more than enough to apply the proper 'icing' on the cake.
IMO the applicant who has so many EC's in their short life (after all at most they are 18) is giving the Adcom reasons to reject instead of reasons to accept.
An athletic, musically inclined, socially interested individual with an excellent academic GPA and good test results should be enough to recommend to any school.
Gilding the lily does diminish the essential beauty of the lily IMO.
Last edited on Sat Oct 20th, 2007 06:47 pm by jocelynDAD
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Canadian
Member
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Posted: Tue Oct 23rd, 2007 06:21 am |
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I received this in an email today, have not checked it out:
The Common App people have restored your ability to customize your online submission for each college if you want to. Most people don’t, but sometimes it makes sense. If you are interested in environmental science, geology, and anthropology, for example, and one of your schools offers the first two but not the third, you don’t necessarily want to list “Anthropology” as an intended major on the application for that school.
Here’s how you change the application after you have submitted it online to one or more colleges, but want to customize it for the next college.
You can create an alternate version of your application by following the steps below.
Step1: You must submit the Common Application to at least one institution. When this is complete, you must logout of your account.
Step 2: You must then click on the following weblink:
https://app.commonapp.org/Application/ApplicantLogin.aspx?allowcopy=true
You will be presented with a login screen to the Common Application. You must then enter your existing Username and Password and click Login.
Step 3: You will be presented with a screen titled ‘Application Versions’, where you will see information about the application that you’ve already submitted. You may then click on the ‘Replicate’ link to make an alternate version of your submitted application. When this is complete, a second version will be visible on this screen and a special drop down will appear in the upper right corner of the application to allow quick access to all your applications.
Hope this helps.
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