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ellenrch
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| Joined: | Fri Aug 24th, 2007 |
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Posted: Sat Mar 29th, 2008 02:11 am |
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| I was thinking the same thing about your daughter, outwest: You go, girl! She has some great choices. But I agree about the Oberlin thing. That's just outrageous, absolutely terrible. Last edited on Sat Mar 29th, 2008 02:11 am by ellenrch
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leftcoast
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Posted: Sat Mar 29th, 2008 04:19 am |
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Outwest, Oberlin is NOT need-blind but it does promise to meet 100% need of admitted students - see: http://www.questbridge.org/cmp/partner_schools/oberlin/home.html
The admissions rep who wrote to your d. probably did not have access to the financial aid app, so I think that its a pretty fair bet that your daughter would have been admitted if she were a full payer, or if perhaps the financial need was less than it is. (Of course I don't know what your need is, but if a college has $50K in grant money and the choice is between giving it all to one student with a -0- EFC, or admitting 5 students who each need $10K grants, you can see where the specific amount of aid needed might be a huge factor).
I don't know how Oberlin works, but it is reasonable given their need-sensitivity to assume that they send a list of probable admits over to financial aid and request a report or ranked list of some sort, and then make the final decisions.
This, by the way, is why I think the whole "match" idea flies out the window for kids needing financial aid. For high achievers, "reach" colleges tend to be well-endowed, need-blind schools, and the "match" colleges tend to be need sensitive. Based on my own experience, I'd advise kids who need a lot of aid to split their applications between reach schools and safety schools where the student is likely to qualify for a lot of merit aid. The "matches" are a problem precisely because they are "matches" -- the student qualifies for admission but isn't high enough in the applicant pool to justify the expenditure of financial aid dollars, unless the student fills some other niche on the admissions agenda. (And Oberlin is one college that has never found itself short of an oboist.)
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riviera
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| Joined: | Tue Jan 30th, 2007 |
| Location: | California USA |
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Posted: Sat Mar 29th, 2008 05:30 am |
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| Outwest, just reading the news. This is absolutely outrageous! I think your daughter should just move on and focus on the really good options that she has now. Whatever decision she makes, she is going to end up at a very fine place.
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CardinalFang
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Posted: Sat Mar 29th, 2008 05:39 am |
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outwest, I think your daughter should move on and pick one of her fine acceptances. She has some good choices. Congratulations, outwest's D!
But I also think she or you should write a polite note to the head of the Oberlin admissions office, letting them know the sequence of events and how your daughter felt she was being led on and then let down. I agree that probably the person who wrote to your daughter was sure she'd be admitted, and was then voted down. But it's unprofessional conduct on their part, and they should stop doing it.
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CardinalFang
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Posted: Sat Mar 29th, 2008 05:39 am |
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outwest, I think your daughter should move on and pick one of her fine acceptances. She has some good choices. Congratulations, outwest's D!
But I also think she or you should write a polite note to the head of the Oberlin admissions office, letting them know the sequence of events and how your daughter felt she was being led on and then let down. I agree that probably the person who wrote to your daughter was sure she'd be admitted, and was then voted down. But it's unprofessional conduct on their part, and they should stop doing it.
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outwest
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Posted: Sat Mar 29th, 2008 07:15 am |
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Yah, I do, too.
No excuses. They didn't like her enough. End of story. The trouble is, she asked about the waiting lists tonight. I told her to go ahead if she wants to, but she had to choose another college by May first. I explained that they don't even get to the waiting lists until after that and they go as long as the end of June! I also told her hundreds of kids were put on the waiting lists and the chances of getting off it are really tiny (like zero to 20 students). I also told her she would have to do stuff like send in current grades, write letter and grovel. Our need is not that great, but what are the chances of a kid who has any need getting off a waiting list? HA! Why should she grovel for that?
She has not visited Bryn Mawr or Dickinson, but she knows she liked Lewis and Clark okay and Occidental a lot, but it is close to home. She'll visit all four in the next few weeks.
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Deja
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Posted: Sat Mar 29th, 2008 10:18 am |
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Well.
Two years ago I didn't think much of Oberlin for being so dishonest (or unorganized? what would be the excuse?) for telling a boy from our high school that he was admitted, when he wasn't. He auditioned at the conservatory, and was told by the person there that he was in. But he wasn't.
It was Oberlin's loss. He a remarkable boy, who is now thriving somewhere else in a double major of some kind of neuroscience (doing research) and music. NMF and all of that (and in my relatively high-index state, so it actually means something).
It was Oberlin's loss.
And now the same thing has happened to your daughter (and others, according to CC?).
Word should get out on Oberlin's shady tactics. Because that is exactly what they are. If my son hadn't already crossed Oberlin off his list (too liberal), I would be encouraging him to do so.
This lack of integrity in the admissions process (because that is exactly what it is to me) makes one wonder about other aspects of the college, yes?
I would be very tempted to have your daughter write to Oberlin and tell her that she is not interested in being on the waitlist of a college that led her on the way Oberlin did.
Last edited on Sat Mar 29th, 2008 02:41 pm by Deja
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Consolation
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| Joined: | Mon Apr 9th, 2007 |
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Posted: Sat Mar 29th, 2008 02:33 pm |
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Two more letters today: Swarthmore (waitlist) and Georgetown (rejected).
This shows the difficulty in predicting results, because I thought his chances at Georgetown were much better than at Swat.
Since neither of these schools were among those he might prefer to U of C, no great mourning here. Still awaiting the big day next week.
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Engineeringmama
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Posted: Sat Mar 29th, 2008 03:36 pm |
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outwest, absolutely amazing that she is on Oberlin's waitlist after that. I hope that she moves on, she has great choices. I would call Oberlin, at least the director of admissions should talk to the admissions counselor about what she did.
My D has heard from all of her schools but one. She's in at Lehigh with an amazing FA package, in at Miami of Ohio and I still cannot believe her FA package, all scholarships that will stay with her for 4 years. She had put MUO out of the running but may revisit with these scholarships. She received almost full tuition in scholarship which would make MUO very, very affordable.
She's still waiting on Bucknell. My H thinks that it will be a yes, I have a gut feeling that it will be a no. I guess that we don't have too much longer to wait.
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Astrid (Moominmama)
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Posted: Sat Mar 29th, 2008 06:11 pm |
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| I've read that demographically, this year's seniors are at the fat end of a big population bubble that will start tapering off next year. So for next year's seniors and beyond, there will be fewer kids competing for the same number of college admission spots, so competition should slowly ease up just a bit. Makes it tough for this year's kids, of course!
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CardinalFang
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Posted: Sat Mar 29th, 2008 06:19 pm |
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| Alas for Fang Jr and the rest of this year's juniors, the demographic bubble only starts to get smaller with the class of 2010. The '09ers are even more numerous than the '08ers.
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CarolynLawrence
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| Joined: | Sun Mar 5th, 2006 |
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Posted: Sat Mar 29th, 2008 06:49 pm |
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Outwest, Sorry to hear the news about Oberlin. In addition to being need-aware, I suspect that the issue with them is that they place a huge emphasis on demonstrated interest, and seem to strongly prefer applicants who have visited. I also want to note that I had five students who applied to Oberlin this year, and they ALL received letters similar to the one your daughter received. Only one of my students was admitted, however. So, I think sending those letters is something Oberlin does for all applicants. It still stinks, however. 
On the positive side, I think your daughter will love Bryn Mawr when she visits. 
Last edited on Sat Mar 29th, 2008 06:53 pm by CarolynLawrence
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Thumper
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Posted: Sat Mar 29th, 2008 09:30 pm |
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OW....I just read this saga. I have to say...We know several students who either attended Haverford or Bryn Mawr. They LOVED LOVED the area. The consortium of colleges there makes the schools have the "feel" of a larger place. And there are a ton of young, energetic and bright students in that area. She sure has some fabulous choices...and with great financial aid to boot!! How much better can it get? Great choices that she can actually attend if she chooses to!! She should be so proud of her accomplishments...and you too.
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peabodie
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| Joined: | Thu Aug 9th, 2007 |
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Posted: Sat Mar 29th, 2008 09:56 pm |
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OK, so we pull out the thin envelope from Vassar, except--it's strangely thick. Why? Because some other kid's thin envelope is stuck to the adhesive on D's envelope!!! So this poor guy is waiting for his letter, and we have it!!! It's going straight back to the post office to be redelivered, but I wish I could somehow let him know.
Now, I'm starting to wonder if something like that happened to D's letter from Haverford. It was mailed out last Monday, and still nothing. She's heard from two other schools since then, and they didn't mail out until Thursday, so it's not like we're not getting our mail. Sigh. We just wanted this to be over, one way or the other.
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Lynda
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Posted: Sat Mar 29th, 2008 11:33 pm |
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Dear peabodie,
Sorry about Vassar. I hope Monday's mail is happy. Four years ago, son's last school was not truthful about the date that the letters were sent out or when the decision was made. Thin envelope finally arrived postmarked several days past April 1 and the letter was dated early March. Honestly, I can no longer remember the pain. I do remember taking son to a Relay for life the next day. I must have looked down because a couple of relay runners from a local church came over and asked if I needed their prayers. I don't turn down prayers-so there I was in the rain with some nice men praying for me.
Son graduates in May from a place that was right for him.
Lynda
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Deja
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Posted: Sun Mar 30th, 2008 12:38 am |
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CardinalFang wrote: Alas for Fang Jr and the rest of this year's juniors, the demographic bubble only starts to get smaller with the class of 2010. The '09ers are even more numerous than the '08ers.
That's right. Our kids' HS Class of 2009 is going to be the biggest.
The admissions carnage for next year will be even worse than it is this year.
Ugh.
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NCEph
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Posted: Sun Mar 30th, 2008 12:45 am |
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| Peabodie - What state was the other kid's envelope supposed to have gone to? Just wondering if it was my S's, since we haven't heard yet. Don't you wonder how often such mistakes get made? I really would think that your D would have heard from Haverford by now. Maybe when it arrives and has a postmark from Outer Mongolia you'll know where it's been.
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CarolynLawrence
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Posted: Sun Mar 30th, 2008 12:48 am |
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| Speaking of mixed up envelopes, one of my students received someone else's acceptance letter and financial aid offer, in addition to hers, in her acceptance package from a Calif. private college. The names of the students were vaguely similar but still....!! I had her call the school, and they seemed suprisingly unconcerned about the mix-up. Last edited on Sun Mar 30th, 2008 12:51 am by CarolynLawrence
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Descartes
Super Moderator
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Posted: Sun Mar 30th, 2008 01:01 am |
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Deja wrote: CardinalFang wrote: Alas for Fang Jr and the rest of this year's juniors, the demographic bubble only starts to get smaller with the class of 2010. The '09ers are even more numerous than the '08ers.
That's right. Our kids' HS Class of 2009 is going to be the biggest.
The admissions carnage for next year will be even worse than it is this year.
Ugh.
With all the horror stories from this year, you can be sure every student will be sending out three more applications than they otherwise would have just so they are sure of getting in somewhere. The Common App's servers will be glowing red with all the activity.
In truth, the U of Chicago will be participating in the Common App for the first time, probably blowing up their application numbers to extreme levels...
I honestly don't expect a downturn even as the demographics taper off. "National scope" and double-digit numbers of applications for every prospect just seems to be becoming ever more the norm. I don't think a slight percentage decrease in the numbers of actual applicants will counter-balance the increase in applications count each will send out.
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leftcoast
Member
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Posted: Sun Mar 30th, 2008 01:14 am |
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Outwest, your daughter won't get off the Oberlin waitlist if she needs financial aid. Need-sensitive schools are going to go to full-payers when they move to their waitlist -- so your d. is really wasting her time with that.
If she didn't have other great choices, then I could see sticking it out and hoping. But your daughter has wonderful choices -- so it is time to focus on them.
Oberlin didn't pick her. Plenty of other colleges did. I think it sucks that Oberlin sends out letters that are likely to be misinterpreted and cause kids to get their hopes up, but that's just one strike against Oberlin.
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