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binx
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Posted: Sat Jul 7th, 2007 04:53 pm |
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I know all the right things to say, and say them.
But I'm dealing with a bit of internal frustration. My D had great admissions results, and is happy with her future plans. But she is attending her third choice. The first choice was a waitlist, and the second didn't give her enough money.
Intellectually, I believe that things happen for a reason, and that she is where she is supposed to be. But I can't help feeling frustrated when other parents rave about their child's school, or scholarship package, or whatever it is that my D so very much wanted but didn't get. It has happened several times recently, in unexpected places where I'm not prepared. I end up saying all the right things "Great School! Congratulations. So glad it's working for you. You must be very proud." Where all the time I'm whining inside, "It's not fair!"
Part of it, I think, is that I still have very mixed emotions about my D's destination. The duct tape is working, and she is getting excited about the fall, oblivious to any of my concerns. But I still grieve over the what-might-have-beens. Does anybody else ever feel this way?
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Descartes
Super Moderator
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Posted: Sat Jul 7th, 2007 05:32 pm |
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binx, I'm an admirer of your honesty.
I'm not at that stage yet, but I anticipate I will feel similarly when I get there. I do know even now, in less imprtant venues, that when my children aren't selected for arbitrary, capricious, and especially unfairly biased reasons, I feel a stab of pain, in part out of sympathy for them, but also out of frustration for myself. I'm putting in some effort, too, to get them where they want to be.
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WestrnMom
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Posted: Sat Jul 7th, 2007 05:40 pm |
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No grief over what might have been. Mine is extremely happy with his choice, which is all that matters. However, I ran into a mom whose child got into schools mine didn't even bother to apply to. If I had let her comments bother me, they definitely would have. She was talking about some schools with disdain as poor-choice safeties for her son that would have been reaches for a lot of kids, mine included. You can't look back, ever. I talked to her for a long time, and I realized just how bitter and obsessed she is with the whole process. I'm relieved I didn't get into it the way that she did because she set herself up for disappointment that her son didn't get into any of the top Ivies. One that he turned down and which she felt was beneath him, was a strong elite school. I know kids who were turned down by that colege who would have given just about anything to attend.
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Fireflyscout
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Posted: Sat Jul 7th, 2007 05:45 pm |
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I still puzzle over one of my daughter's waitlist decisions. I'll never know what they didn't see in her that the other colleges did. But all is well - she is at a college that suits her to a T.
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limner
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Posted: Sat Jul 7th, 2007 05:45 pm |
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binx, I think your feelings are all too human and that you benefit by airing them--to us, of course. 
This process is hard for a number of reasons. One is that it affects our children and their futures, and we love them beyond anything and want the best for them. The other reason is that our wants and desires are tied up with their futures. It's a bit hard to extricate our desires for them from their own desires.
The other thing to keep in mind is that you actually don't know that these kids who appear to have gotten what they wanted maybe didn't. You just don't know what's gone on behind other people's admissions processes!
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binx
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Posted: Sat Jul 7th, 2007 06:13 pm |
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The other thing to keep in mind is that you actually don't know that these kids who appear to have gotten what they wanted maybe didn't. You just don't know what's gone on behind other people's admissions processes!
Very true. What I left out of my initial post (careless editing - it was there to begin with) is that these are parents who's kids attend my D's first and second choice schools. So when they rave over this part or that part of the school being perfect - which I already know, or how much scholarship money their kid got - which is what kept my kid out, I am jealous. It doesn't have to do with their getting or not getting what they wanted so much as their getting what my D wanted.
These people are not mean-spirited at all (well, one of them was a bit) and have no clue about my D's process, so their attitude is not intentionally hurtful - they are just proud and excited.
The other reasons folks have posted are also very true. I can take a lot of personal affront, but don't mess with my kids! How dare anybody imply they aren't perfect!
My oldest was waitlisted at Duke many years ago, and it took forever for me to forgive them.  And that was even though he was accepted with grants at his first choice, UPenn. Now I have to remind myself that he even applied anywhere else at all. So I know that as D "owns" this school more and more, I can quit feeling guilty that I somehow let her down, messed up her transcript, said no to the more expensive school. Some day I hope to even have my own stories about what a perfect fit it has been, or how well she's done, or how much she's grown.
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CarolynLawrence
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Posted: Sat Jul 7th, 2007 06:38 pm |
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Binx, I had very similar feelings after my daughter made her final choice. Even though I now can't imagine a better school for her, I kept wondering if she'd "settled," if maybe she should have "aimed higher" or if the college she'd picked was "worthy of her." Mostly, I wondered these things after listening to other people talk about how things turned out for their kids.
Some people really do lay it on thickly when talking about their children's results - they can't wait to tell you about how surprised they are at well their kid did in admissions, about all the fabulous schools their kid got accepted to, the wonderful scholarship offers their kid had, and how amazing their kids college results were. These are also usually the types of people who tend to be patronizing about your child's results and choice, especially if it is a school that is outside the norm for your local area or social group. Some people can be especially thoughtless and insensitive, "forgetting" that your child had applied to schools that their child got into, or even point blank saying that your child "should have done better."
In many cases, these are also the same people who way back in pre-school and kindergarten couldn't wait to tell you how their little Johnny could hold a crayon before anyone else in the classroom, or how the first grade teacher just "loved" their little Susie's art work, or how frustrating it is that their Bobby "only" scored 780 on the math section of the SAT.
It's hard not to feel a bit of doubt, and yes, envy, when someone is going on and on like that, especially if you do have any lingering worries about how things turned out for your child. But, try to keep reminding yourself that this wasn't a competition, that you and your daughter did the best you could, and that she is happy with her choice. I found it helped to keep focused on the many positive aspects of my daughter's choice -- to keep reading the website, to look through the catalog, to listen to her excitement.
I am glad, however, that you mentioned this, because it is a good reminder for ALL of us. We're all proud of our kids, but it's important to be sensitive when talking about them wth others. Just because things worked out one way for your child doesn't mean that anyone else's child is somehow lesser for taking a different path.
Last edited on Sat Jul 7th, 2007 06:44 pm by CarolynLawrence
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jocelynDAD
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Posted: Sat Jul 7th, 2007 07:53 pm |
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Binx:
Since I have had six children who have survived the process with varying degrees of success and our youngest is now entering the senior year - I probably have as much if not more experience than anyone else on Carolyn's site. That said here goes my input to your inquiry.
Amongst my children, I have had a Val, three who were awarded full tuition scholarships, others who were fortunate to have multiple acceptances while having average GPA's and test scores.
I found early on with my oldest three (who were one year apart), to forgo the conversation in the area of scholarships, test scores and even GPA. While many knew of my children's academic performance, (we lived in a small town and the High School scene was very important to many), I did not discuss my child(ren) stats at all. Obviously, with one being the Val, others were aware, but I would only talk about the college he or she was attending and did not ever discuss the application process at all.
Now I was not a hermit, being very involved with Booster Club for the Athletic team and such, so on occasions I did give advise on the process to some friends of my children (always getting their parents approval beforehand). One of these friends was fortunate enough to go to Princeton with a full tuition scholarship and others were able to have success as well.
With my two youngest daughters, using CC and this forum has been sufficient for any impusles that I might have for interaction with parents. We now live in a much larger community and the information about the children is really not that well known as our previous High School.
In my experience, if you get into the conversation about college searches, GPA, Scholarships, test scores you are entering into the area of extreme parental image concerns.
Parents seems to be so identified with their children's achievements/potential and are so competitive that they will lie and inflate any stat or other aspect just to appear successful as a parent.
The teardown of other schools is a scene, I avoid like the plague. As soon as I hear that type of account, I either change the subject or end the conversation as quickly as possible.
There is no safe place from parents who are so hung up with the college process and their parental approval rating (by proxy), you just have to aviod and avoid.
My first three children completed college with their school in four years, my fourth left college for a modeling career and returned on her own to finish at a second school, my fifth stayed for 6 years at his school before he graduated. Our sixth is in her second year and is very happy at her school.
Why do I mention the above is because, like yourself (remember we have been reading about your daughter's quest this year and know about Allegheny, St. Olaf, Furman and Miami of Ohio) we helped our children investigate and visit, read and inquire, apply, get accepted, re-visit, consider and accept a college/university that appeared to fit his/her needs, aspirations etc.
That task is never easy, but with a bit of lucky (added to the above effort/sweat/concern and maybe a tear or two) your D will have found her place to grow and learn.
IMO, you have done all that is realistically possible and the results were positve, not perfect, but most certainly positive.
You will (as a parent it is in the fine print) naturally wonder about what might have been, what could have happened, what magical wand did you fail to wave during this quest of your D.
Stop, breathe, pretend to relax, she has made her decision, she is increasing looking forward, turn around and join her in looking forward. You have been visiting the past the last two months, join with her - by all measures she is where she wants to be.
Finally, I have seen too many parents who caused their children to overreach their interests to meet their parents inflated sense of what was best for their child. These parents did not consider their child wishes etc. Their child (ren) suffered from that parent's obsession.
Your D is happily not in that circumstance, as all of us on this site that have followed along with you this year well know, so don't please let the bleatings of some obsessive parent or two, cause you to doubt that really interesting and beneficial journey that you and your D took this year.
Miami of Ohio may not be perfect in all aspects, but your D feels good about her choice and so should you. Enjoy her future triumphs, I feel certain that are waiting for her in Ohio. 
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WestrnMom
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Posted: Sat Jul 7th, 2007 09:01 pm |
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JocelynDad, that is wise advice and very comforting. We tend to forget that our children make choices all the time that affect their lives and futures, and we focus more on their choice of colleges than just about anything else. I've found some of the more anxious parents I've talked to are that way for cultural reasons. Some of them didn't have the opportunities that their children have because of where they were raised, lack of money or other things standing in their way. Without understanding their backgrounds it's hard to understand their drive to put other people's choices down. I see insecurity, sometimes ignorance behind the nasty comments. Last year, when mine was making a decision on where to apply, and then where to attend, I avoided talking about it with certain people, trusting only parents who had similar attitudes to my own.
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binx
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Posted: Sat Jul 7th, 2007 10:34 pm |
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I am appreciating the discussion and viewpoints.
I agree completely about the toxic parents -- gives me the same feelings I had in Jr High when the tanned popular girls would press their arms next to mine and shriek, "OMG, Look how pale you are!"
But these parents I've talked with for the most part aren't doing anything wrong. The conversations generally start off with my asking, "What's so and so doing now?" Then I get an earful of bubbly. I'm not mad or hurt in anyway, or terribly despondent; just a bit wistful. I find myself wanting to say, but, but, but my kid is special, too! And there's really no reason on my part to feel so defensive.
I like your reminder, Carolyn, that it's not a competition. That helps. Because I do keep thinking things like, "But my kid is smarter than yours! Why did this happen this way?" or something like that. It is not my kid against yours; it is my kid and your kid on parallel paths.
And from the flip side, I have also learned how good it feels when someone says, "Oh, Miami! Great school!" Affirming.
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leftcoast
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Posted: Sat Jul 7th, 2007 11:15 pm |
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Binx, I don't have the issue with "competition" because my kids went to California public high schools, where the large majority of top students still are aiming for & attending UC's, and the rest are at CSU's or community colleges. My kids were accepted at all the UC's they applied to, including Cal, received good financial aid awards & turned them down... so the only regrets I have tend to bubble up when it comes time to write the check for my daughter's more expensive choice. Other than that, I am the one that has to bite my tongue around other parents -- I had to be particularly careful around the mom of the boy who had his heart set on NYU and did not get in, when my d. was accepted and turned it down.
However, while things worked out almost miraculously well for my daughter (who got accepted into the super-reach college that was my first choice for her, and which also offered enough financial aid so as leave her with no other choice  ) My son did turn down his first choice spot due to financial reasons, and I have always felt some resentment toward that school (Reed) because they acknowledged that he qualified for need-based aid, but did not offer any. (Budget issue: they offered to let him onto a "waitlist" for financial aid, hinting at a $15K grant if the money came through). There is no question that he would have chosen Reed if it had been affordable, and since he did not graduate from the college he did choose -- Sarah Lawrence -- part of me has always wondered, what if? So I did feel some twinge of envy when I learned that one of my daughter's middle school friends was attending Reed.
However, in the 6 years that has elapsed since my son turned down the spot at Reed, I have never once heard him mention that college. My son has a very clear idea of what he wants to do with his life and a resume of work experience in his intended career area that is amazing. About the time that most of his high school friends were graduating from college, he did comment that the recent grads were all unemployed - while he was busy with management-level responsibilities hiring and training other young college grads. The college he turned down, Reed, has a 4-year graduation rate of only 52% -- so it is wishful thinking, at best, for me to surmise that the outcome would have been different at the original top choice.
I do think things happen for a reason. As my son prepares for his Washington DC internship, gained only by virtue of his enrollment at the decidedly lower-tier Humboldt State..... I know that he would not be at this place in his life but for the choices made in the past, both those that were forced by circumstance and those that he made on his own. It's a happy outcome -- and another path could very well have led to a less happy outcome. You never know.
My advice: Rent the movie Sliding Doors, fix yourself a big bowl of popcorn, and watch the movie in the comfort of knowing that nothing ever goes as planned -- and sometimes it is the unplanned and unexpected stuff that brings the best rewards.
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scoop
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Posted: Sat Jul 7th, 2007 11:33 pm |
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| It's normal to feel what you are going through and I appreciate your honesty in sharing it. Your topic title was "losing gracefully". Don't think of it as losing, everyone has a different path to follow and your daughter is following hers. She sounds excited about where she will be. Be prepared ahead of time with a comment that will make you feel good about her wonderful accomplishments. I hope my daughter does as well as yours!
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binx
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Posted: Sun Jul 8th, 2007 12:02 am |
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Leftcoast, you're right, of course. I know this is a great path for D, and she is excited, and there are many, many positives - some of which we don't even know yet. Things like study abroad ops, or internships, or ???? Thanks for the reminder.
And D has already moved on. She has no regrets. Or none that she's mentioned, at least. I regret that she's not going to a smaller school, or a closer one. But that is offset by many positives, certainly. I think that D very much believes, as we all do, that things happen for a reason, and that makes it easier for her to accept the disappointments.
We're past it - most of the time.
Scoop - I wondered if anybody would question the title. I debated about the thread name (does anybody else think as hard as I do about naming these things???) because it does make it sound like a competition -- but went with it because I think that is the crux of the issue - that I do feel like we lost something. My D wanted them and they didn't want her. Ouch.
I don't mean to spend too much time navel gazing. It's just the occasional comments when my guard is down that made me realize it still stings a bit.
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scoop
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Posted: Sun Jul 8th, 2007 02:16 am |
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| Your heading reflected how you felt. I think it's ok to give yourself a little time to feel sorry for what could of been, and it sounds like you are moving on from there. It's hard. And yes, I do sit and think about the headings if I start a new topic! It never seems to sound quite right Last edited on Sun Jul 8th, 2007 03:40 am by scoop
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Alumother
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Posted: Sun Jul 8th, 2007 04:15 pm |
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binx. To me the fact that you can speak about this so openly - well, I know we are mostly anonymous but still it's a community - means that you are probably handling this extremely well around your D. And given that, she will have a fantastic time in college one way or the other. So if that's the case, you will have other opportunities when you are the parent who has to bite your tongue not to let your D's good fortune and success weigh down others who's kids are struggling.
This is a moment where I would say, being a Californian, that you are building good karma.
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mom61
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Posted: Sun Jul 8th, 2007 10:47 pm |
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Binx- years ago I would listen to the parents of high school age kids who would go on and on about their child being so bright and in the GATE program. They made it sound like if you aren't smart you aren't worthy. Or complain about their daughter dating a boy who was in god forbid, college prep. I would keep my mouth shut but inside know that one day they would feel that way about my own son. I knew that you don't judge someone's character by their gpa but I still felt sad. One day there would be parents who did not want their D to date my S since he was not in the top 10%.
I do feel some satisfaction when I tell them S is going to college. And even a college that they have heard of. I know many are shocked. I am sad for them that they didn't take the time to get to know him because if they had they would have realized that he is kind, considerate, caring and even "smart".
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Northeastmom
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Posted: Tue Jul 24th, 2007 02:22 am |
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| mom61, it is sad, isn't it! Kindness, honesty, caring, humor, are all qualities that would be far more imortant to me than academic skills that allow for someone to be in their top 10%. I really think the root of it is fear. The fears are of lower IQ offspring, and the lack of ability to support family with greater riches. I know many smart people who are not wealthy, and wealthy people who are leading miserable lives.
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ellenrch
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Posted: Wed Sep 26th, 2007 02:23 pm |
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This is an old thread, but I'm reviving it to thank all the posters for their comforting advice. I find myself wanting to become a total hermit: no conversations with other adults about college, no information about where my S's friends are applying. I allow myself to talk about the college process only with friends and family from out of town whose kids have already gone through the whole thing, or who don't have kids at all! Last night my S revealed that the #2 student in his small class is one of several applying to his top choice school. It's the #2 kid's last choice of 10. It makes me sad that students load up their lists unnecessarily (my S is applying to 5, maybe 6, with a reasonable balance). I can't get over thinking how upset I will be if #2 gets in (with no real interest in going there, apparently) and my S does not. My S, however, is likely just to move on, go somewhere else, and be perfectly fine. I know I won't look back, either, and the posts here confirm both how hard the process is and how easy it is to move on. Deep in my heart, I guess I am just as annoyingly competitive as all the people who annoy me! I have to remember that every time my anxiety rears its ugly head.
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limner
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Posted: Thu Sep 27th, 2007 04:27 pm |
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ellenrch, it may be less about the competition and more about the anxiety that's got you feeling this way. Even though we know that things will work out, it's still tough to watch this crucial process in our kids' lives.
My S didn't get into his top two choices, but the school he decided on is an amazing place, and he's really relishing the whole experience. I personally think that he's in the very best place for him, a school that fits him infinitely better than his original top choices.
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binx
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Posted: Thu Sep 27th, 2007 04:59 pm |
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I started this thread when I had those feelings - it was frustrating and irritating.
However, six months later, I am happy to say my D has no regrets. (Actually, she said she has no regrets except she doesn't know for sure about St Olaf, since we were never able to visit, so she doesn't know if she regrets it or not.) As it has turned out, she has had a pretty smooth adjustment to college, and Miami "fits" now - even if D had to stretch in places and squeeze in others at first. Some of the things I was worried about have turned out to be non-issues, and others have turned out to be positives! Like, I was worried that the school was too big - but the orchestra dept is small and close knit. And the size means there are so many different organizations on campus, and so many course offerings, and opportunities. I was a bit worried about the distance, but it has only encouraged her independence (and discouraged my tendency to hover.)
It is a lot easier to answer folks now when they talk/ask about colleges. We are able to say something like, "Miami is a great school for D and she is very happy there. We are glad we found it." (And then we continue the conversation to explain that yes, we said, "of Ohio" and that no, it's not a branch campus of Florida.... ) But at least we have moved on past the competitive portion.
In short, sometimes we get what we need, rather than what we want.
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