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leftcoast
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Posted: Thu Sep 27th, 2007 09:28 pm |
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Ellen, the non-elite colleges are very conscious of their yield and are pretty good at ferretting out which kids are seriously interested and likely to attend. Every year there are many very high-stat kids who get into many of their reach colleges but strangely get waitlisted or even outright rejected by colleges they thought of as matches or safeties. (It even happened to my daughter, and she is not high-stat -- but a skinny waitlist letter from Boston U was rather surprising after receiving the fat envelopes from Barnard and U of Chicago).
So don't worry about the college your son wants most that is also being used as #2 kid's safety -- just encourage your son to show the love in his application. I think the the smaller colleges use gut sense impressions and the larger colleges use sophisticated, computer based algorithms to hone in on students most likely to attend -- either way if your son has targeted well, he's got a good chance of getting in.
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bumpyroad
Member
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Posted: Fri Sep 28th, 2007 04:38 am |
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There's a kind of flip side to this discussion of the #2 kid whose safety school is someone else's # 1. My D is at the top of her class, perfect SATs, 4.0. Today her GC at school suggested that she pare her school list down from 9, because if she applies to a selective school she will get in and take a place that some other student at the school would otherwise have. He's very confident that she'll get in just about anywhere, but we're also concerned about the financial picture.
She's certainly not trying to hurt anyone else's chances, but I wonder if this idea that a selective school will only take one from a high school is real. For instance, her school has had 2 or 3 kids get into Stanford every year for the last 3 years. She's applying to Whitman, where 3 to 5 go every year. So, I'm a little concerned for her that there will be some unwarranted resentment.
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jocelynDAD
Member
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Posted: Fri Sep 28th, 2007 06:53 am |
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bumpyroad wrote: Today her GC at school suggested that she pare her school list down from 9, because if she applies to a selective school she will get in and take a place that some other student at the school would otherwise have. He's very confident that she'll get in just about anywhere, but we're also concerned about the financial picture.
This GC is way off base. Your child and your family interests are paramount.
Why and how schools select students is beyond your control and interest.
You have financial reasons and that is your business only.
Your child (on the basis that each of the 9 schools 'feel' good as a 'fit' for her) has the right to be able to seek and select any of those 9 schools that accept her.
Her opinion in September might be very different in April ($$$ might come into play as well).
Finally, no one is a lock anywhere. Especially the highly competitive (25% acceptance or less). Even the 40% or less might not be any sort of guarantee.
What if her high school has a tuba player apply and a top flight track star apply?
If that college wants a tuba and track star would that leave her out? According to the GC it might. Would he tell them not to apply?
My recommendation is to make the decisions that serves and suits your child, her needs ($$) and desires.
Thank the jerk of a GC nicely (she needs his recommendation) but place herself first and foremost. 
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Daaaad
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Posted: Fri Sep 28th, 2007 11:02 am |
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Well said Binx. I know several families who went through various stages of the anxiety expressed on this thread and now each and every one says the same thing: "My S/D just loves college X." Most of our kids adapt well to their new surroundings and find the good at their school. But at the same time, I know one girl who was adamant about going to one highly ranked college and now her mom reports she doesn't like it. If your child is happy at their new school, be happy, be very very happy for them and yourself.
Now if I can only get rid of the anxiety of writing that tuition check!
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bumpyroad
Member
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Posted: Fri Sep 28th, 2007 01:50 pm |
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| JDad - Mrs Bumpy and I were pretty peeved and ranted a bit about the GC, but in the light of day I'm not going to dash off an angry e-mail. I think he's not used to thinking that admissions can be as much about what you can afford as where you can get in. This is at an expensive private school where a majority of parents don't need to worry about college costs, so the GC is usually concerned with getting kids into the best schools he can. And he seems more confident than I am that my D can get into her schools but a lot of them (Stanford, Princeton, Dartmouth) aren't a lock for anyone. So we want her to cast a wide net, particularly because she doesn't have a single dream school - she's still trying to decide what kind of school she wants.
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Alumother
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Posted: Fri Sep 28th, 2007 02:16 pm |
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Bumpyroad - My kids also go to a private school that usually sends the top 5-10% of the class to Stanford and the Ivies. One year we had 4 go to Princeton, 2 to Yale and 1 to Harvard. It seemed like the top kids got into at least some of the places they wanted to go. The kids in the next level didn't get into these schools. It did not seem to be based on how many applied.
Most important is that you and your daughter feel that you made the best choices you could. I don't advise trying to game the system on your own behalf, doesn't usually work, but trying to game the system on someone else' behalf is even sillier IMO.
Now, she shouldn't apply somewhere she wouldn't attend, just to get the acceptance, but it sounds like that is the last thing on your daughter's mind.
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WestrnMom
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Posted: Fri Sep 28th, 2007 02:23 pm |
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Bumpyroad, ultimately it is your child's not the GCs. That kind of response infuriates me. This time last year, my S hadn't even visited the school he is now attending. Your D has worked hard and has the right to apply to a wide range of schools, even if the GC thinks it will upset the balance from her HS. Our school's Val this year is attending a name school but not one of the top elites. It's the school that student liked the best, however, out of the final acceptances. It would be terribly unfair if the GC had suggested not applying so someone else might have a chance.
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ellenrch
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Posted: Fri Sep 28th, 2007 02:26 pm |
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Thank you, everyone. I read my post again and wonder why I was so anxious a few days ago. We all hope for the best for our kids, and I agree 100% with Mick Jagger about getting what you want--if you try sometimes, you get what you need. I have an easygoing, positive, highly adaptable kid, and I should follow his lead!
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Consolation
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Posted: Thu Oct 18th, 2007 01:13 pm |
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ellenrch wrote: Last night my S revealed that the #2 student in his small class is one of several applying to his top choice school. It's the #2 kid's last choice of 10.
I recently found out that a friend of my son has suddenly said he might apply to the same school early as my son, who has been fixated on that school for months. (And he's the proverbial tuba player.  ) I don't know whether he will or not, but it's hard not to make him the focus of my anxiety. He's a very competitive kid, too. If he does apply early and gets in, and mine doesn't....it will be very, very difficult to handle. Until now, each of the boys had avowed interest in different schools as their first choice, which made it easier. It's one thing to deal with rejection from afar, it's another thing to deal with it in your face.
Of course, I try to remember that my son could be playing the same role in someone else's inner drama.
I wouldn't be as fraught about it if I knew my son had written the damned essays and actually done the job he is capable of. I don't know how I'm going to make it to November 1st.
Last edited on Thu Oct 18th, 2007 01:16 pm by Consolation
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outwest
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Posted: Sat Mar 29th, 2008 07:40 am |
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Boy, did I need this thread tonight.
All will look rosier in the morning. That's what my grandmother used to say.
Goodnight.
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peabodie
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Posted: Sat Mar 29th, 2008 11:10 am |
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| I found myself at a party last night at my best friend's house. It was a tough situation because her son had received a rejection letter and a waitlist letter that afternoon from two of his favorite schools. My D had applied to the same school that waitlisted him, so obviously she knew we had heard that day, too. I definitely didn't bring it up until she asked, but my D's letter was an acceptance and it is one of her top two choices, so I had to tread carefully while talking about it. I guess I did OK cause she gave me a big hug when I left, so I don't think there are any hurt feelings. Plus, since the school offered us no financial aid at all and we would be paying full freight, we toasted to my future poverty!! Her S has some great choices, so he will be fine. But I know it was a disappointing day for them.
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limner
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Posted: Sat Mar 29th, 2008 11:19 am |
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outwest, I read about your D's wait listing at Oberlin. That really is outrageous. I do wonder if they're panicked about yield and are doing, as someone else suggested somewhere, what WUSTL (I've heard) has done: waitlist people they really want but think are using them as safeties. It sounds as though, this year, colleges are feeling like yield is a crap shoot.
If your D was thinking that Oberlin was for her--or in her top three--I think it would be worth saying yes to a place on the waitlist, just to see what happens. If admission isn't forthcoming like a poof! from a genie's bottle, then she needs to consider things carefully. She has amazing schools to choose from, and waitlisting is prolonging the agony, IMHO.
Last year, my son was waitlisted at five schools and rejected from his top two schools. Despite five acceptances in hand, we all felt shellshocked. I think this is natural; you sort of have to make a U-turn from the path you thought you were on. Looking over his acceptances, one school had a flashing neon arrow with the words "GO HERE!" next to it (to me, at least). It was an excellent school that really sounded perfect for my son. And it is; he can't imagine himself anywhere else.
Carolyn has said that things work out the way they're supposed to. I really think in our case, that's what happened. I know things feel hard right now. This has been *such* an emotionally wrought time--you're bound to have some unpleasant lows during it.
After my son got his fifth waitlist letter (and the last of his decisions), I told him he was the waitlist king. He replied, "Yeah, well put me on the waitlist for dinner. I'm hungry." 
These kids are smart and resilient. They bounce back and move on toward the wonderful times in front of them. Your D will fine, more than fine.
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Wendy (wjb)
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Posted: Sat Mar 29th, 2008 03:06 pm |
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Limner: I don't think this one was a case of Oberlin waitlisting a kid it thought was using them as a safety. (And I'm not so convinced that practice is as prevalent as some suggest.) Word on the street this year is that because of the unprecedented numbers of applications they received, almost all schools are having a harder time predicting yield. As a partial solution, they are waitlisting many more kids than in past years. The good news: They plan to use their waitlists aggressively.
The bad news, though, is that sometimes little or no financial aid is available for students admitted from the waitlist. Outwest, if your D is serious about trying to move off the Oberlin and/or Grinnell waitlists, call and ask about the financial aid policy for students admitted from the waitlist.
Oberlin behaved very, very badly. There is absolutely no excuse for manipulating a kid like that. I think your idea of writing the director of admissions is a good one, outwest. If your GC has a relationship with Oberlin, I'd ask him/her to make a call, too. There are living, breathing, sentient human beings at the other end of those applications!
How this post came out in blue, I'll never know!
Last edited on Sat Mar 29th, 2008 03:07 pm by Wendy (wjb)
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mominva
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Posted: Sat Mar 29th, 2008 03:29 pm |
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I've been thinking, outwest, that you should send copies of the 'likely' letter AND the waitlist letter to the director of admissions, the college president, and the chairman of the board.
I am guessing they do not want to conduct business in this manner.
It might have been a less bitter pill to swallow if the author of the 'likely' letter made some apologtic contact along with the waitlist.
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limner
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Posted: Sat Mar 29th, 2008 03:41 pm |
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Wendy, I agree that the practice of waitlisting extremely qualified students isn't widespread. WUSTL is the only one I've heard of that (supposedly) has done that. I think it's unlikely that outwest's D's Oberlin wait-list decision is due to that, but if (a big if) outwest's D really wants Oberlin, it might be worth a try.
If she doesn't want Oberlin, I agree about a letter to the director of admissions.
And the blue looks really nice. 
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Wendy (wjb)
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Posted: Sat Mar 29th, 2008 03:56 pm |
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Oh dear, limner, I fear I have to defend WUSTL's honor. D is a senior there.
I don't think WUSTL really has Tufts syndrome. I think what WUSTL does is market with a fury. Kids who have no realistic chance of being admitted apply because WUSTL has (unfairly, I think) filled their mailboxes with glossy enticements. Those kids are then waitlisted -- in droves and hoards. My two kids have gone to two different high schools. My D went to a large public and my son goes to a tiny parochial. In each of their senior classes, the very tippy top kids got into WUSTL, and many kids with lesser stats were waitlisted. (My D was among the waitlisted -- she transferred to WUSTL after her freshman year at an LAC.)
I think WUSTL's practice of creating jumbo waitlists (and many other schools, Harvard and Yale among them, do the same thing) gets a lot of bad press because of its distasteful, extremely aggressive marketing practices. But for the most part I don't think they're filling those waitlists with top candidates who they think will not choose them.
And I can't seem to replicate the blue!
Last edited on Sat Mar 29th, 2008 03:59 pm by Wendy (wjb)
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limner
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Posted: Sat Mar 29th, 2008 04:55 pm |
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Wendy, I'm sorry that I made you feel that WUSTL needed defending!
I only read about one case (on the Other Board), which is why I stuck in "supposedly." The only kid I know who is going to WUSTL is from my son's year, he was an NMF, nominated Presidential Scholar, etc. From his case, I know their standards are high.
Okay, I'm going to shut up now before I say something else that requires defending.
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WestrnMom
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Posted: Sat Mar 29th, 2008 06:02 pm |
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I talked to a friend on Thursday whose child had not yet received one department acceptance except from a poor-choice safety that never should have been on the list at all. Out of 18 schools (yes 18!) there were only 3 left to hear from. That doesn't sound good at all. I believe her D got into one school but not into the arts program. Is this a really tough year for performers? I don't know what she's going to do if she doesn't get into any performance programs because she doesn't want to do anything else. The one acceptance is across the country without any aid. Her parents aren't going to pay for her to go to a school that essentially doesn't have her major. CC is out because she has taken courses there in high school and again it would not be a good option.
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CarolynLawrence
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Posted: Sat Mar 29th, 2008 06:55 pm |
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| WestrnMom, were all of the programs audition-based admissions? The odds of admission are always lower, sometimes dramatically so, for those programs than for the school overall. It is also much harder to predict admissions when an audition evaluation of talent is involved.
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WestrnMom
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Posted: Sat Mar 29th, 2008 08:58 pm |
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Yes, they were audition based. The poor girl is reeling because she never made a back up plan. She is extremely talented so it must be a case of limited opportunities with a lot of qualified candidates.
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