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mom61
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Posted: Mon Mar 12th, 2007 06:21 pm |
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I have to say I am baffled by my son's admissions decisions.
From just a few months ago when I was freaking out he wouldn't get in anywhere to today with some wonderful choices. Since his record was so irregular and lopsided he applied to a larger number of schools.
Through the whole process I thought he had a few sure bets. NAU and the Cal States. He heard from both Humboldt and Channel Islands fairly early. We were puzzled why he hadn't heard from Sonoma State. It should have been a sure thing. My son emailed them on friday since he still had not heard from them. He received an email from them this morning that he had been denied. The letter stated he had great SAT scores and a strong gpa but he was lacking 1 semester of biological science. He had taken Biology with a grade of a D first semester and a B second. They did not count the D as passing. At the time my son had thought of retaking the first semester but his counselor at the time advised against it since the colleges would see the B the second semester. If we had known that this would happen we would have had him retake the class. Or take another biological science.
It is weird how Humboldt and Channel Islands were fine with the D but Sonoma was not. It is a bummer since Sonoma would have been a nice choice. Low cost and a good art department. Far enough from home but accessible. A decent residential college community.
I am going to talk with the head counselor at the high school just so they are aware of this.
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Wstrdg
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Posted: Mon Mar 12th, 2007 06:41 pm |
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I know of couple of people who appealed admissions decisions from the UCal system, but I don't know if the Cal State system has the same process.
Did you ask the admissions rep if an appeal was possible? Does your son have supplemental info that would bolster his original application? Achievements, awards, activities? Letters of recommendation? Especially in the sciences? If he really wants this particular school, over his alternatives, I wouldn't give up. But you do need to hurry, obviously.
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mom61
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Posted: Mon Mar 12th, 2007 06:56 pm |
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The email stated he could appeal the decision and submit 7th semester grades. Unfortunately he hadn't taken another science this year.
I did review the Sonoma State website and it says the grades must be C or better. Though it says two years of a lab science. It doesn't specify that one has to be a biological science. He also took both physics and chem with labs. I have emailed them back to see what steps he needs to appeal the decision.
He has some other great options but all at a significant higher price tag.
I just looked up the subject requirements at the other 2 CSU's he applied to.
Channel Islands states two years of lab science with a C grade or better.
Humboldt actually says 1 year of a physical Science and 1 of a Biological Science with a C or better. Since he as admitted to Humboldt they were willing to overlook the D.
Last edited on Mon Mar 12th, 2007 07:01 pm by mom61
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DesperateDad
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Posted: Mon Mar 12th, 2007 07:36 pm |
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mom61:
All Cal States have the exact same minimum admission requirements, which includes two years of lab science, one physical & one biological, with a grade of C or better. A D can be replaced by a strong Subject Test score or AP/IB exam score in that subject. Your GC was just wrong regarding retaking the D.
btw: if Sonoma is where he wants to go, you could appeal with the agreement that he'll pick up the lab science over summer at a local community college. Or, if he did take the subject test in bio, appeal with his score.
http://www.csumentor.edu/planning/high_school/subjects.asp
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mom61
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Posted: Mon Mar 12th, 2007 07:53 pm |
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I have to admit we went on what the counselor recommended when we should have checked ourselves.
The CSU Mentor site list of requirements and the listing on the website of each individual campus are different.
Here is how it is listed on the Sonoma website:
Science with laboratory, (biology, chemistry, physics, or other acceptable laboratory science), 2 years.
That is the same way it is listed on CSCI site as well. Humboldt is the same as the CSU Mentor site.
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WestrnMom
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Posted: Mon Mar 12th, 2007 08:59 pm |
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If he really wants to go there, contact the Special Services department and see if they have a special admit status. Some of the Cal States do. Any student who has had an LD or ADD or anything else that qualifies them for services, should be able to use that to gain admissions. His grades and SAT scores certainly qualify him for admission. And he's not going to major in science. I would think that Physics is a more demanding science than Biology anyway.
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jocelynDAD
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Posted: Mon Mar 12th, 2007 10:53 pm |
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Not such a strange decision if you look at the reality of this year and the larger group of students applying.
Remember this year the flood of applications is supposed to be higher in number and in quality at many of these colleges.
As a direct consequence, I imagine the college admissions personnel when reviewing the piles seize upon an reason (that they can stand on) for rejection. With more applications and supposedly higher quality - there is limited or no reason for them to seek to find a rationale to accept someone whose application, on its face, has a real reason to reject.
Ergo, if this scenerio is close to the reality - there would be little reason for this school to re-review its decision. 
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mackinaw
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Posted: Mon Mar 12th, 2007 11:00 pm |
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It seems to me that the high school guidance counselor messed up. D's are not passing grades in most subjects at most schools (high school or college). So a B and a D do not average out to a C, even if the B was in the more advanced course.
There's a useful lesson here for other parents, it seems to me. Perhaps this kind of thing could also be something for Carolyn to address on her blog, perhaps in an article that talks about different types of grading systems and how to reconcile them for estimating college admissions chances.
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DesperateDad
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Posted: Mon Mar 12th, 2007 11:06 pm |
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mack:
a corrolary to the blog is: Don't trust your GC to be informed.
Quite frankly, mom61's GC committed the equivalent of GC malpractice. There is absolutely no reason for any in-state GC to not know the minimal Cal State and UC admission requirements off the top of his/her head. Heck, I know them and I'm just a regular guy.
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CarolynLawrence
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Posted: Tue Mar 13th, 2007 02:05 am |
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I agree with DD and Mackinaw: The GC was at fault.
But, to clarify: althought there are minimum admissions requirements for the Cal State and UC systems, individual campuses are free to set higher standards for admission to programs that are considered "impacted" or over-enrolled.
Unfortunately, what I have seen is that some guidance counselors only rely on the MINIMUM Cal State/UC requirements, and don't look up the individual schools and programs that students are applying to within the systems.
While that doesn't excuse the guidance counselor for not taking the time to look the specifics up, ultimately the responsibility of verifying things always lies with the student. Again, not excusing the guidance counselor entirely, but when my husband was in the Navy his captain had a saying, "Trust, but verify." I think that's good advice for any information that doesn't come directly from the college itself.
Additionally, with the Cal States I've sometimes seen students with higher grades/test scores who applied later in the admissions cycle being turned down at particular schools while students with lower GPAs/test scores who applied earlier get in.
So, there are a lot of variables that can indeed lead to some surprising results with some of the Cal States at times.
But, the good news is, Mom61's son has many excellent choices so now it is just a matter of making the final choice. 
Last edited on Tue Mar 13th, 2007 02:13 am by CarolynLawrence
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Overseas mom
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Posted: Tue Mar 13th, 2007 02:45 am |
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Those state requirements are a killer. My son finished his last 2 years of high school through U Nebraska's Independent High School and received his diploma almost 2 years ago. He applied to San Francisco State for fall 2007, only to be denied because he had not taken one semester of art. (He took one semester of art and one of music.) He called SFSU and pushed a little to find out what he can do to get in. They will not admit him until he finishes a high school art class. IF he takes a college art class, they consider him to be a transfer student who can't apply until he's a junior.
He is now taking an art class through Independent HS, but it' very slow going since he has to complete several art projects, send them in by mail, have them graded before sending in the next project, etc, all before he can take tests for the class. (His first project was lost in the mail and he had to redo it and resend) It's taking so long that I'm worried he won't get in for the fall.
He's a trained substance abuse counselor and is working in that field, but we want him to go to college. He says he's ready, so I don't want another delay. SFSU is a perfect school for him because it's close to where he lives and because he's independent and mature and would not fit in a school that's residential with students his own age.
Is there anyone else in the admission office he should try to contact to get a firmer committment about his admission, contingent on passing this class?
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leftcoast
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Posted: Tue Mar 13th, 2007 03:46 am |
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Since he as admitted to Humboldt they were willing to overlook the D. Humboldt has some enrollment pressures: it needs more students.
While HSU welcomed its largest freshman class in history this year, it fell short of the overall enrollment projection. http://167.160.244.42/widgets/GetRSSfeed.php?id=361
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mom61
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Posted: Tue Mar 13th, 2007 04:42 am |
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In the end the mistake was mine. My gut instinct was that he needed to retake the first semester of Biology. I should have looked deeper. The counselor was absolute in her opinion it wasn't necessary. My older D didn't apply to any Cal States so I had no idea they had subject requirements. I knew that the UC's did. The guidance counselor also happens to be married to the superintendent of schools. I would have expected her to know. She wasn't a 24 yr old like the one who replaced her.
JocelynDad- Sonoma State is not the most selective school. Like all schools the applicant numbers are increasing. But according to the Eligibility index for the CSU's any Ca resident is eligible with an index of 2900. My son's index is 4220. As far as GPA and test scores he is way above their average applicant. Sonoma is also not listed as one of the CSU's with higher admissions standards. My son has completed Math through AP CALC. Most CSU students have reached Algebra 3/4. Many CSU students don't even test into freshman math and english.
I am not complaining. It is a fact that he has the D in Biology. He will file an appeal but I know they are justified to deny it.
I just think it is sad that in case's like this or missing a full year of art they deny admissions to candidates that far exceed their average student.
Overseas Mom- look on the SFSU site and see if there is a link that reads If you are denied. For Sonoma it outlines what you can do to appeal. My son also was able to email directly the admissions person for his letter group of the alphabet. I don't know if SFSU would be as responsive as Sonoma since the size is so much larger.
Last edited on Tue Mar 13th, 2007 04:44 am by mom61
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DesperateDad
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Posted: Tue Mar 13th, 2007 05:47 am |
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mom61:
I disagree. The responsibility was with the GC who is incompetent. The Cal State requirements are not new; they were revised circa 1999. And that, unfortunately, is an example of what's wrong with public education.
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Overseas mom
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Posted: Tue Mar 13th, 2007 05:56 am |
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mom61 - I agree it is sad. The size of some of the schools simply precludes looking at anything beyond the numbers or letter grades.
Don't blame yourself. It's a complex process raising kids, living our lives and trying to keep up with all the different college requirements (which change!)
As Carolyn said, your son has lots of nice options. If he really wants to go to Sonoma, there may be a way. I get the impression that many kids simply accept the denials and don't try to find out why or what to do about it.
In my son's case, if it doesn't work out this semester, he will reapply for spring '08. I just get nervous because more and more time passes between hs and the beginning of college. I know he is doing something worthwhile and gaining lots of experience in the meantime, but...
On the positive side: My daughter who is 2 years younger will probably finish college before he will. She's never been ahead of him and she's the more competitive of the two.
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outwest
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Posted: Sat Apr 28th, 2007 06:27 pm |
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M0m61, know I am a bit late, but I thought if you saw this it would give him options.
The Cal States accept classes through the end of the summer. If he takes a semester of science this summer (or even starting now) he should be eligible for Sonoma. I know 2 kids who had to repeat a semester this way. One had his admission recinded at San Francisco State because of a D in second semester Algebra 2. He took it over the summer and got a B and was admitted for fall (although the first semester he had trouble getting classes because he had to register late). The other kid had a D in Senior English. She took hers on line through Brigham Young and went to Cal Poly Pomona. You can take those semesters on line. Brigham Young University has a large and accredited/approved on line course catalog for high school classes:
He should check it out:
http://ce.byu.edu/is/site/courses/select.cfm?type=hs
Last edited on Mon Apr 30th, 2007 05:51 am by outwest
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CarolynLawrence
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Posted: Sat Apr 28th, 2007 11:45 pm |
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Outwest, thanks for responding. This is good for next year's students/parents to be aware of.
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outwest
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Posted: Mon Apr 30th, 2007 05:32 am |
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In reviewing this, I am not sure that these would be considered as having a lab. Hmmm. I think the other Cal States probably made a boo boo by admitting him or as mom61 said they just overlooked it (although they are pretty darned strict). Personally, I would be absolutely fuming at thaat counselor! If they are in California then how could a counselor not know the requirements for a Cal State?
The other thing I am curious about is why they would cost any different from each other? I believe they all cost the same, don't they?
My middle daughter took advantage of Brigham Youngs program for her required health and safety class because she was so into the theater (her counselor told her about it). She took it on line and then she was able to do theater that semester. I think the reason BY has this program is in part for home schooled kids?
Last edited on Mon Apr 30th, 2007 05:44 am by outwest
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mom61
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Posted: Tue May 1st, 2007 04:07 pm |
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outwest thanks for the information. He is extremely happy with his choice of Univ of the Pacific. I don't know if he even would have considered Sonoma if he got in. For the parents we liked the price plus the small size for a state school. Humboldt and Channel Islands would also have been affordable but he never really considered them seriously.
The new counselor has made an appeal to Sonoma but we have let it go. I do feel for the students. The counseling staff is extremely inexperienced. Only one of them has any long term experience. He has been great in acknowledging the mistakes that they made. Unfortunately he is extremely busy with his own student load plus being the ESL counselor as well. Both the counselors my son has had this year are just starting out. Young 20's with no experience. The old counselor had only been at the school about 4 yrs but I think she had previous experience at another Ca high school.
When I went through the pile of mail yesterday I reread the Humboldt letter. It actually said that inspite of not meeting the requirements of admission they were admitting him anyway based on his otherwise strong record. So I guess they didn't miss the lack of 2 semesters of bio with lab.
Like our kids we learn from our mistakes. I still have another to go.
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outwest
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Posted: Fri May 4th, 2007 01:12 am |
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Oh! I thought DD might look at University of the Pacific, too. That is really annoying about Sonoma State.
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