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UPS dad
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Posted: Mon Mar 6th, 2006 09:58 pm |
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| I stongly suggested applying at similar schools in the same area of the country. While few schools admit to "negotiating" they seem to improve offers when they find you are considering a competing school. The cost of College seems a lot like buying a car. There is the sticker price and then there is the real price. Merit scholarships seem to go up based on how your student compares to the school's SAT/ACT scores and GPA averages. THe higher the school's average stats the higher you your stats need to be to get "merit" money
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CarolynLawrence
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Posted: Tue Mar 7th, 2006 02:13 pm |
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This is a really good suggestions UPS Dad. I do think that if you approach schools saying that you have a merit offer elsewhere, they'd be more likely to want to match it if it's from a competing school. And, your analogy about buying a car is also right on the money, although I suppose most admissions officers would be a little peeved being compared to car dealers  .
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Northeastmom
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Posted: Tue Mar 7th, 2006 06:31 pm |
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I have thought of the cost as similar to buying a car, as well as airline tickets-where everyone is paying a different fare for a similar/the same product.
Would you suggest waiting until financial aid packages are in, and then writing a letter to the college along with a copy of the offer from another school detailing/comparing costs of attendance at both? Would that letter go to financial aid or admissions?
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UPS dad
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Posted: Tue Mar 7th, 2006 07:14 pm |
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| I suggest you let your kid do the talking. Matt droppede thge hint he ws choosing between UPS and Whitman to his admit rep and she hooked him up with Fin aide rep
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UPS dad
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Posted: Tue Mar 7th, 2006 07:15 pm |
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| OOPS sorry about the typing errors. I was in a hurry
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Northeastmom
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Posted: Wed Mar 8th, 2006 01:25 am |
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| Thanks for your suggestion. No need to apologize for typos. I make spelling errors and typos quite a bit. I understood your post.
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Capt. Jack Sparrow
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Posted: Thu Mar 9th, 2006 02:06 am |
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There are nine and sixty ways. While D was attending an admitted students event, I had an appointment, set up in advance, with a FinAid rep. There had been a previous exchange of e-mails and, per their request, I'd FAXed them the offer letters from two competing institutions.
The conversation boiled down to, "Gee, D would really like to come here." [You're #1 on her list...she will commit if we can work this out, helping your yield.] "But the differential in the financial aid offers is disconcerting." [I may balk...or I may be bluffing...how lucky do you feel?]
"We'll see what we can do and get back to you by next week." [We'll come up with some extra bucks but I can't make it official without going through the dog-and-pony show with the committee.]
They very carefully beat the next best offer by just a few hundred dollars, but they got themselves into the #1 position. Now, was it incumbent upon me to let them know that D had already purchased the sweatshirt? No, it was not.
Was the FinAid as much as I would have liked? No. But still, a few thousand dollars for a couple of hours work isn't a bad return.
I think UPS is correct that colleges pay the most attention if they think they might lose you to a competitor.
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HImom
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Posted: Fri Apr 7th, 2006 02:24 am |
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| I just learned from a friend's dad that USC gives Eagle Scouts an extra $1000-1500/year renewable for 4 years! That makes me very happy and is money we hadn't thought we would receive. His son & mine are both Eagle Scouts from the same troop; his son will be graduating this Spring & mine will start in the fall. He suggested I make a call to the dean of the School of Engineering.
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CarolynLawrence
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Posted: Sun Apr 9th, 2006 08:01 pm |
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UPS Dad brought up a really good point that was reiterated to me yesterday by a college financial planner (I'll be putting the full interview with him on my blog in a day or so) --- if you want the best merit deal and the best chance at negotiating on financial aid, it is a good idea to apply to at least one, and possibly more COMPETING colleges. And, make sure you not only list those competing colleges on the application, but mention them after you have been accepted as UPS Dad's son did.
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CarolynLawrence
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Posted: Sun Apr 9th, 2006 08:06 pm |
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HiMom,
That's great news! And, that's why it's also a good idea to ask colleges for a complete list of all merit scholarships that they offer. I've seen institutional merit scholarships out there for kids whose parents work for a certain employer, or kids who have done something specific (like make Eagle Scout), or kids who have a certain type of background (kids who have studied abroad through Rotary while in high school get money from Beloit, for example). However, it seems that these are not always automatically given out but rather the student has to let the school know that they qualify instead of just counting on the school to remember from your application that you qualify. Another case where doing your homework can pay off.
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westkymom
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Posted: Sun Apr 9th, 2006 09:31 pm |
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. . . uhm, forgive a potentially stupid question, but in order to be a "competing college," does the other college have to be in the area -- or be the same selectivity? or some other criteria?
--Rhonda
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CarolynLawrence
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Posted: Sun Apr 9th, 2006 10:33 pm |
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No stupid questions here Rhonda!
By competing, what we mean are other schools where applicants to school A often apply. In some cases, yes, geographic location or selectivity might play into it. But not always. For instance, Beloit gets a lot of cross applications with Knox College and Earlham - they are all in the midwest and all about the same level of selectivity. But, Beloit also apparently gets quite a few cross applications with Goucher, Carleton, Whitman College, Bard, Skidmore and Wesleyan - which are all in different areas of the country, or different levels of selectivity. I suspect that schools have different levels of competitors --- their direct competitors (i.e, Knox and Earlham) and the schools they'd LIKE to be competing with (i.e., schools a step up in terms of overall admitted students stats).
A good starting point to figure out some potentially competing schools is the princeton review. If you do a search for a name of a school they have something called a review map (I think that's what it's called) that will show you other schools that same school gets cross apps with and how they compare in terms of selectivity, location, size, etc.
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westkymom
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Posted: Mon Apr 10th, 2006 01:48 am |
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Wow, that's a cool feature. I'll have to check that out. I know the guide books show a list of other schools that students are often also interested in, but to actually have access to cross-app info and the convenience of the schools stats too. That's just...cool. I can tell I am enjoying this way too much. 
--Rhonda
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Chedva
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Posted: Mon Apr 10th, 2006 02:15 pm |
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| Also, the Fiske Guide this year lists similar, competing schools next to each school's profile - schools that students who apply to School A are also likely to apply to. We've expanded d's list using this feature.
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CarolynLawrence
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Posted: Mon Apr 10th, 2006 11:01 pm |
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westkymom wrote: That's just...cool. I can tell I am enjoying this way too much.
Be careful Rhonda, or you'll end up obsessed like me.
Chevda, thanks for reminding me that the Fiske Guide has the cross-applications listed as well.
Needless to say, you want to be careful how you handle this --- don't want to make it too in-their-face, but I do think that it is something to consider if you hope for a little extra leverage.
Also, keep in mind that competing schools can - and do - have different institutional needs/wants. A tuba player may be something School A is dyig to have, but competing School B already has three tuba players. So, as always, you have to pay close attention to each institution's needs/wants as well. Always begin with that, and then assess how your child might satisfy what the institution wants/needs - that is the best way to boost admissions chances and merit money.
Last edited on Mon Apr 10th, 2006 11:02 pm by CarolynLawrence
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Thumper
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Posted: Wed Apr 12th, 2006 11:09 pm |
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OK...I'll ask for help. DD got accepted at Santa Clara University and U of San Diego...very similar schools from what we can tell. We are from CT. She did not get accepted with distinction and received NO merit aid at all from either school. She got an SCU grant for $6000 and a USD grant for $9300. USD uses only the FAFSA. Santa Clara uses the profile. We have already spoken to finaid over the phone regarding additional aid, even work study. Both schools say she does not qualify. SCU clearly states that you can appeal based on extenuating financial circumstances, but that they do not "negotiate" finaid. USD didn't seem very receptive either. Our EFC is $20,000 and they gave us just the percentage of aid they said they would give...not much. Is it worth my while to visit finaid when we go to visit the schools next week? DD really likes these schools, but their $40,000 or so a year price tag is pretty high, and with two kiddos in private colleges at the same time, I'm not sure how DH and I are going to eat (we'll figure it out...but you know what I mean).
I should add that these merit awards are clearly SAT score driven...no holistic view of the applications. DD is top 10 in her class (top 5%) with excellent GPA, references and ECs. Her essay was great. But her CR/Math SAT was 1230 combined.
Opinions?
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mominva
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Posted: Wed Apr 12th, 2006 11:28 pm |
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Thumper,
I'm of the school that if you do not ask, you will never know. So while your daughter is off at a class make an appointment to talk to head of FA.
Sometimes it is easier to give the 'party line' to a voice on a phone than to a face across your desk.
I would specifically ask about funds which may get turned down by other prospectives. Bring up her excellent class rank and if you can support it, tell how she just tests poorly, but works hard.
Another suggestion is to elicit the help of someone who wants her in their department (isn't she a musician?). Let them know the $ is an issue and they may go to bat for her.
Best of luck.
(PS-I think we will cross paths in the San Jose Airport, thanks for the shuttle trip.
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Thumper
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Posted: Thu Apr 13th, 2006 12:14 am |
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mominva....when will you be in San Jose? We are arriving there at about 9 in the morning on Tuesday April 18. We are leaving there at about 8 in the evening on April 19. If we're there at the same time, we should meet!!
Sorry this is off topic....
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CarolynLawrence
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Posted: Thu Apr 13th, 2006 06:04 pm |
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Thumper,
Not only would I visit financial aid, I'd be sure to let it slip that you're visiting the other college during your trip as well. While it is unlikely that you'll get a substantial change, they may be able to come up with some flexibility in the package. You never know unless you ask. 
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IzzyJ
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Posted: Tue Apr 18th, 2006 06:41 pm |
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If, however, the money is based on merit, and therefore grades, how exactly is it possible to ask for a college to "up" your money? Especially if your mid-year grades were already sent in?
I'm a little curious because I just compared total fees (direct and indirect) and deducted my scholarships (not the work study, though since it's something I earn after landing my booty on campus. Should I, though?) and came out with rather depressing results.
Top choice - Beloit - Parental contribution - $23,512 ($21,512 with work study)
Next choice- Cornell College - Parental contribution - $19,960 after an increase in the scholarship (without me asking) (Scholarship - $14,000)
Knox - parental contribution of $20,640 ($18, 690 with work study) (Scholarship + grant = $15,000 + work study $1,950 = $16,950)
My Canadian University - fee of US$ 16,767 - 19,210 (depending on what room + meal plan I choose. God bless XE.com!)
Thing is, I'm an intel (international) and Beloit states it only gives aid of 40-50% of direct costs ($34,512 in half = $17,256) in form of a merit scholarship and work study. My scholarship + work study is $15,000.
Do you think it's worth writing an email to ask if my merit scholarship could be increased? I can understand them saving their scholarships for domestics. I really like Beloit. It seems so awesome, as Cornell does, too.
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