 |
| Author | Post |
|---|
CarolynLawrence
Administrator
| Joined: | Sun Mar 5th, 2006 |
| Location: | USA |
| Posts: | 3216 |
| Mana: |    |
|
Posted: Sat Oct 14th, 2006 11:40 pm |
|
Interesting article: Amid rising costs, colleges cut back merit aid
I think the message from the article is threefold:
1. Don't assume that past merit scholarship awards are an indicator of how generous a school might be this year or next. Just because you've heard of someone getting a huge merit award from a particular school, it doesn't mean your child will too.
2. It's more important than ever to make sure you have financial safeties in the mix - and those financial safeties shouldn't hinge on expectations of merit money.
3. There are still some very generous schools out there, but it's a good idea to ask lots of questions about who gets merit money and whether individual college policies on merit awards have changed. It also (to me at least) means that if you need financial help, you should apply for financial aid - not just count on merit scholarships.
Last edited on Sat Oct 14th, 2006 11:42 pm by CarolynLawrence
|
HImom
Member
| Joined: | Mon Mar 20th, 2006 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 261 |
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Sun Oct 15th, 2006 07:11 am |
|
Good points, Carolyn. Unfortunately, there are so many of us who can't really comfortably pay the cost of college (which can hover around $50,000+/year) but don't qualify for ANY need-based aid, particularly if there are assets like family real estate (with no cash flow, but valuable asset on paper).
You're right that financial safeties are more important than ever and will likely become increasingly difficult to find ones that are both loved by student and family & affordable.
|
jocelynDAD
Member
|
Posted: Sun Oct 15th, 2006 01:54 pm |
|
Carolyn:
The Merit Aid question is a great unknown until the various colleges send their admission letters and the accompaning Financial Aid/Merit Aid letter.
Any family that is dependent on either Financial Aid or the possibility of a Merit Aid Scholarship must do two actions IMO:
First: use EA applications whenever available, do not apply ED to any school
and apply RD if EA is not available.
Second: Wait until all EA and RD have responded with acceptances and aid letters.
With the above two actions completed. Then the student and family will be able to assess the entire $$ picture and make a clear decision.
Naturally, it is important to apply to a sufficient number of colleges that the student
is certain will provide the atmosphere etc that 'fits'.
As for HIMOM's comments re assets on paper, that is a problem, many would envy, however it does pose a problem that the College/University cannot ignore and the federal rules do not allow them to ignore.
It does come down to priorities that each family must elect. 
|
Northeastmom
Member
| Joined: | Sun Mar 5th, 2006 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 496 |
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Sun Oct 15th, 2006 02:13 pm |
|
One can maximize merit aid by investigating what a school is currently looking for: ie: to expand a certain major, start a marching band that did not exist, increasing their community service, etc.. Applying to a school with less females may give an edge to a female applicant, geographic diversity may count etc.. Obviously, being in the top of the stat range for a school can increase the odds of a merit award.
I agree with Carolyn about past history not necessarily predicting future merit aid. This rang true with my son. One school not known in the past for merit aid, offered a nice scholarship to him. Another school that offered merit aid in the past to 25% of applicants, did not offer my son a dime. My son was well in the top 20% if not top 5-10% as far as stats for that school! He showed interest with 2 visits (one before and one after his acceptance, he interviewed, and used their priority application, and app was in very early). BTW, I believe that son's stats were in the top 10% for that school. I also believe that my son may have appeared to show too much interest.
Last edited on Sun Oct 15th, 2006 02:17 pm by Northeastmom
|
mackinaw
Member
| Joined: | Mon Mar 6th, 2006 |
| Location: | Michigan |
| Posts: | 777 |
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Sun Oct 15th, 2006 03:13 pm |
|
On your last point, Northeastmom, when merit aid levels move up to 25% or more of the student body, it becomes akin to automobile dealers selling cars below the sticker price. They aren't going to take as much off if they see an eager buyer as they are if the buyer is about to walk out the door. When merit aid is this common, it's perhaps more a way to discount than to reward "merit," as such (however that may be defined for a particular school given its priorities and needs relative to the talents of the customers who walk through the door).
|
CarolynLawrence
Administrator
| Joined: | Sun Mar 5th, 2006 |
| Location: | USA |
| Posts: | 3216 |
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Sun Oct 15th, 2006 04:01 pm |
|
Excellent points guys. JD is on target about applying EA, early in the rolling admissions cycle, or RD if you want merit money. While some schools say ED admittees are considered for merit awards, common sense tells you that your chances go down at most schools if you're already committed to attend.
And, as to home equity, I think that needs to be kept in perspective. Home equity does not factor into eligibility for federal financial aid at all. At schools which use institutional methodology (CSS Profile schools), home equity is considered, but after allowances and deducations are taken out, only a maximum of 5% of home equity is considered "available" for college expenses --- and sometimes that amount is lower, depending on family circumstances. And, frankly, it is true that if you have high amounts of home equity available in your house you ARE in a better position for paying for college than someone who doesn't have that equity. Home equity loans have some advantages (i.e., tax deductible, sometimes lower interest rates and longer re-pay periods) that non-subsidized education loans do not.
Last edited on Sun Oct 15th, 2006 04:13 pm by CarolynLawrence
|
Northeastmom
Member
| Joined: | Sun Mar 5th, 2006 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 496 |
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Sun Oct 15th, 2006 04:23 pm |
|
| mackinaw, I happen to see all of this as discounting. I view most schools as marking up the sticker price, in order to mark it down. JMO, but many won't agree with that. My son who is a very good, but not stellar student, was offered merit awards at better than half of his private school options. In addition, one that did not offer an award based on merit, offered a large financial aid grant, which more than made up for the lack of a merit award. Perhaps you are right about the school that I was referring to, b/c I know kids with much lower stats with our same zip code received at least 8,000 in merit money. I think visiting the school a second time was a big mistake. Last edited on Sun Oct 15th, 2006 04:23 pm by Northeastmom
|
mackinaw
Member
| Joined: | Mon Mar 6th, 2006 |
| Location: | Michigan |
| Posts: | 777 |
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Sun Oct 15th, 2006 05:31 pm |
|
Northeastmom, I think your interpretation is right.
My son, who is academically exceptional, was offered no aid (unless you count the paltry $750/yr he got from Chicago as a National Merit Finalist). But that was in an era (1996) when the "merit money gambit" wasn't widely used. My daughter, a few years later (2000), was offered substantial merit awards from two art schools -- allegedly, in one case, based on her academic record, not on her artistic promise. But she ended up attending a school (RISD) that offers little merit aid and is not known for offering a lot of need-based aid either.
So . . . we sucked it up, and managed to pay for these educations without any special allowances from the colleges but with savings, earnings, and some help from the grandparents, who truly appreciated the merit of these kids!
Last edited on Sun Oct 15th, 2006 05:41 pm by mackinaw
|
WestrnMom
Super Moderator
| Joined: | Fri May 26th, 2006 |
| Location: | West Coast, USA |
| Posts: | 1173 |
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Sun Oct 15th, 2006 10:15 pm |
|
Is visiting a school more than once a mistake? Sometimes you can see things differently when you attend a class at the school rather than going to a fall preview or when school is in session vs when it's not. S wants to see schools twice if he felt he didn't get a true picture of what it's like to be a student there. However, after reading that, I'm going to suggest he wait until after he's admitted and has all offers available to look over.
|
Northeastmom
Member
| Joined: | Sun Mar 5th, 2006 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 496 |
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Mon Oct 16th, 2006 12:48 am |
|
Son's second visit was after his acceptance, but before merit offers were sent out. My son sat in on a class or 2, ate lunch in the cafeteria, and was escorted by 2 students through his day. It was advertised as something that accepted students could do. I really think that he his visit resulted in merit money not being offered b/c he was a very strong candidate for that school (very much a safety school).
My son did visit another school 3 times (twice with us, and once with his high school). This was very much a match school and merit aid was offered (visits were all prior to the merit award offer). He also attended a local info session for that school, and had a local interview.
Last edited on Mon Oct 16th, 2006 12:53 am by Northeastmom
|
CarolynLawrence
Administrator
| Joined: | Sun Mar 5th, 2006 |
| Location: | USA |
| Posts: | 3216 |
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Mon Oct 16th, 2006 04:48 am |
|
I do not think it is a mistake to visit a school more than once. The most important factor is finding the right fit, and if you need to take two, or three, or even four visits to do so, do not hesitate to do so out of fear of reducing your chances for merit money or financial aid. What good is merit money or financial aid if the school is not right for you?
I think it is entirely possible to lose sight of what really matters in the college search process by worrying too much about possibilities, and trying to game the system in any particular direction. Admissions decisions, and financial aid and merit money decisions, ultimately can not be controlled. Make informed decisions, make sure your college list has a firm foundation, and then let the system work out as it will.
Last edited on Mon Oct 16th, 2006 04:53 am by CarolynLawrence
|
jocelynDAD
Member
|
Posted: Mon Oct 16th, 2006 05:36 am |
|
Carolyn: Agree completely. Our D2 visited each of her schools at least twice, once in the summer or fall of her Rising Junior year and later in either the spring, summer or fall of her senior year.
This besides emailing the assigned counselor before and after each visit and on (rare) occasions with questions. She met a number of representatives at college fairs or at visits to her school.
She had seven acceptances and for six of them she was offered merit aid ranging fron $6,000 to 13,500.
She even visited two schools in Wisc/Minn in the midst of a blizzard in February.
FWIW, her gpa was 3.41, and her SAT were 650/600, Act was 29 composite, so while these are good numbers, as most of us know, they are not the highest or the best, still she was able to gather the offers of merit aid from 6 of her schools.
I certainly would urge finding the best 'fit' thru visiting the colleges early and often.
Last edited on Mon Oct 16th, 2006 05:37 am by jocelynDAD
|
Northeastmom
Member
| Joined: | Sun Mar 5th, 2006 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 496 |
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Mon Oct 16th, 2006 12:05 pm |
|
| I guess one just never knows who will get merit aid, even when one is a top applicant. The only way one would have a very good idea about merit aid is if the school posts a chart on its website. Some schools just post what is needed, and it is very objective-x gpa+y sat score=z dollars. Last edited on Mon Oct 16th, 2006 12:05 pm by Northeastmom
|
mackinaw
Member
| Joined: | Mon Mar 6th, 2006 |
| Location: | Michigan |
| Posts: | 777 |
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Mon Oct 16th, 2006 02:20 pm |
|
I agree that visiting as often as is necessary to feel comfortable with your own decision is the best way to proceed. Even in my analogy to buying a car, I wouldn't expect the salesperson to make me an offer if s/he didn't feel that it was plausible that I'd accept it. But when I am in that situation, I also try to make clear that while I love, say, this Ford, I'm also very attracted to that Chevy, and price could be a difference maker in my ultimate decision.
|
WestrnMom
Super Moderator
| Joined: | Fri May 26th, 2006 |
| Location: | West Coast, USA |
| Posts: | 1173 |
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Mon Oct 16th, 2006 09:49 pm |
|
Excellent information. We will take that under consideration. S saw one school on a holiday break, which we didn't realize when he made the appointment, so there were no students on campus. It's impossible to judge a school without seeing students. Also, some schools will not allow you to sit in on classes until after you have been admitted. We ran into that with all the public universities (although how would they know if you showed up and sat in on a huge lecture?), and with a few of the smaller LACs that get too many applicants to allow them all that opportunity. So, visiting those schools twice under different circumstances (small tour and large open houses) makes sense for us.
|
Northeastmom
Member
| Joined: | Sun Mar 5th, 2006 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 496 |
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Mon Oct 16th, 2006 11:08 pm |
|
| Westernmom, A large lecture can also give a lot of information in just a few minutes. We were on a tour at a large U. The guide took us into a large auditorium. A test was being given at that time. The professor was collecting the test papers. She kept saying, "all papers up to me now". There was only one student still working on his test, and the professor did not know his name, so she kept repeating, "all papers up to me now". This was the first time my son realized that in a large lecture the professor may not know who you are, and it was not the beginning of the semester. This really made an impact on my son.
|
mackinaw
Member
| Joined: | Mon Mar 6th, 2006 |
| Location: | Michigan |
| Posts: | 777 |
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Mon Oct 16th, 2006 11:31 pm |
|
If a professor has 100-200 students (or perhaps many more) in a lecture, which can well happen in an introductory course, there is no way for her to learn the names of more than a handful of students unless the professor also administers her own discussion section.
The enterprising student in that situation learns to do the following: go to the professor's office during office hours, even with a separate appointment if need be. Make an effort to ask a question or two in lecture as well. The professors learn almost all the names of students who take that initiative. They tend to remember the students if the students do well or need a letter of recommendation for something.
Here's an illustration. I have one class this semester in which about 160 students are enrolled in the lecture. TA's administer recitation sections for most students. I handle the recitation student for honors students (who also have some special assignments and additional readings to do). I get to know the names of all of the students in my section. I get to know the names of several students in other sections who stand out in one way or another. Some students are unusual enough that I notice them -- this semester in the mix I have students from Mexico, Poland, Kazakhstan, and Uzbekistan, for example (none in the honors section). A couple of these students have come to my office hours, and they also sit prominently in the front of the lecture halls. I don't think they're just brown-nosers. I will have no problem remembering them and I'm also getting to know a couple of them quite well.
Last edited on Mon Oct 16th, 2006 11:43 pm by mackinaw
|
jocelynDAD
Member
|
Posted: Tue Oct 17th, 2006 12:30 am |
|
I went to Law School in the evenings at Suffolk in Boston. There were two sections of about 150 students each. Our class was in an auditorium. I sat in the first row all thru the first year. Subsequent years the classes were smaller (drop outs were many) and so we were in sections of about 20-25 students.
During the Torts Class, our Professor was discussing the "reasonable and Prudent" standard. I raised my hand and challenged him with the question how could that standard be applied to a rapist! I thought I had stumped him.
His reply (without missing a beat) was he picks smaller victims, insures that the victim is alone, checks before hand that the victim is healthy, attacks in a place where there is a clean bed and no neighbors, wears a mask, uses gloves and other protection and therefore while he is a monster, he is a reasonable and prudent monster.
For the rest of my time at Law School, that Professor remembered me for that question. He later became Dean and then President of the Law School. So it is possible to stand out in a lecture setting. 
Last edited on Tue Oct 17th, 2006 02:16 pm by jocelynDAD
|
mackinaw
Member
| Joined: | Mon Mar 6th, 2006 |
| Location: | Michigan |
| Posts: | 777 |
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Tue Oct 17th, 2006 12:36 am |
|
Great story! Well told. On point. Thanks, JD!
|
Current time is 11:35 am | |
|
|
|
|
