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CarolynLawrence
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Posted: Wed Aug 15th, 2007 03:04 am |
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Alumother,
It's much more complex than combing through applications one by one looking for clues about family wealth. A great deal of the "stacking the decks" occurs before the first application even arrives.
Consider, for example, who gets mailings from Harvard, Princeton and Yale after taking the PSATs. Not the kids at the bottom of the PSAT pile (who by the way, tend to be lower income kids), but kids with higher end scores who, as Leftcoast points out, are likely to also come from better educated and wealthier families. But, there's more to it than that - using sophisticated computer models, colleges can identify family wealth based on zip code, and those kids are likely to get more mailings and recruitment efforts as well. Colleges also target kids by where they attend high school - they know that a kid from, say Philips Exeter, is highly likely to have more money than a kid from an inner city school. So, those kids get more intense recruiting efforts as well.
By the time the first applications arrive, most colleges have a pretty good idea of where their applications will be coming from in terms of demographics and family income. They don't need to screen for EC's or prep programs one by one because they've already done so, in a sense, in the front end, before applications arrive.
Now, that's not to say that they don't also want to recruit low income students - of course they do. But, they don't send mass mailings to every kid in zip codes with low incomes, they target there too, by focusing on kids in certain high schools, or kids from programs like Questbridge where the pre-screening has already been done for them.
Keep in mind that, as Leftcoast points out, test scores also send signals. Lower income kids are significantly less likely, as a group, to have high test scores, so they are often at a disadvantage in terms of admissions. Colleges, in a sense, are not need blind when they prefer students with test scores above a certain level. Conversely, Here's another twist on "need blind" that I've heard argued (not saying I agree, but it is an interesting point) -- the top schools are all loudly proclaiming that they're actively looking for low income kids. But, if they give leeway in admissions to low income kids (say, by accepting some with lower test scores), are they really "need blind?" It's a catch-22 in a certain sense because "need blind" means treating everyone equally, but if you are making allowances for kids from disadvantaged backgrounds, you're no longer "need blind."
So, yes, colleges are "need blind" in the sense that they may not always be looking at need on a case by case basis on every application, but they are not "need blind" in the sense that everyone is going to be recruited on the same equal basis or have the same equal chance at getting in regardless of family wealth. If that were the case, the financial aid numbers for individual colleges would swing a lot more than they do from year to year.
Last edited on Wed Aug 15th, 2007 03:11 am by CarolynLawrence
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revkat
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| Joined: | Thu Jun 21st, 2007 |
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Posted: Wed Aug 15th, 2007 02:10 pm |
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| A little OT -- but maybe that explains why my D hasn't gotten a whole lot in the way of college mailings. She'll be a NM Commended student, but probably not semi-finalist in CA and I've wondered when I read about people getting pounds of mail. She did check the box and she gets some, but it's just a trickle. Our area is not known for sending kids to elite schools and our zip is very middle class (as in median income matches national median income. Last edited on Wed Aug 15th, 2007 02:11 pm by revkat
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Canadian
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Posted: Wed Sep 19th, 2007 07:09 am |
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Carolyn,
I'm wondering about that "meets 100% needs" list. What does it mean about the schools? Does it represent better priorities or better endowment? Or??
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Lupine
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Posted: Wed Sep 19th, 2007 03:24 pm |
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Any thoughts on whether "need aware" schools consider the magnitude of the need? Does a student who might be eligible for $10-15K in need get looked at differently than a student who needs $35K out of a $45K annual cost?
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Chedva
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Posted: Wed Sep 19th, 2007 03:30 pm |
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I asked that at one of my d's schools - they said that it's not just the issue of applying for aid, but how much you'll need. A student who applies for aid but doesn't qualify is looked at the same way as a student who doesn't apply. So, at least according to that school, someone who needs $5000 is looked at differently than someone who needs $30,000.
Additionally, need-aware applies only to the more borderline candidates; if a candidate is a "sure admit", even need-aware schools don't necessarily look at the financial need.
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CarolynLawrence
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Posted: Wed Sep 19th, 2007 08:09 pm |
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Chevda is right: most need aware schools will consider the amount of aid needed if it comes down to two candidates who both need it. However, as I said above, NEVER assume that what is done at one school is done the same way at ALL schools. Ask this question directly of the specific schools.
Canadian, in terms of your question, it's another one of those "it depends on the school." Each school has its own reasons for making certain decisions, just as different companies in the same industry might use different pricing and marketing.
One thing to notice, however, is that many of the openly "Need Aware" schools are also on the list. They've made a decision that they won't admit students who they can't afford to meet 100% of need for. I personally think that is far preferable to the majority of colleges who use a "admit-deny" strategy of "we won't pay attention to how much you need when we admit you, but we also probably won't give you the money you need to come."
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outwest
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| Joined: | Sun Mar 4th, 2007 |
| Location: | CA |
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Posted: Sat Oct 20th, 2007 03:10 am |
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My D has made a very thoughtful list of colleges with merit aid as well as her interests in mind. She has a goal to attend a small LAC rather then a UC. Not every school on her list is known to be generous with merit (I am not even sure Oberlin has any), but she is hoping one or two will work out. Cross your fingers for her. And if it doesn't work out she'll go to a UC without loans.
Wellesley
Smith
Bryn Mawr
Oberlin
Grinnell
Occidental
Lewis and Clark
Dickinson
Last edited on Sat Oct 20th, 2007 03:17 am by outwest
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Shennie
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Posted: Sat Oct 20th, 2007 07:10 pm |
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| Outwest: I have kids at both Oberlin and Lewis & Clark. My son at Oberlin got a larger merit award than my son at L & C, although this is offset by the higher cost of attendance at Oberlin. But, yes, Oberlin does offer merit money.
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outwest
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Posted: Sun Oct 21st, 2007 12:09 am |
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That's a pleasant surprise, Shennie. You'll have to tell me how you compare the two schools.
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CarolynLawrence
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Posted: Sun Oct 21st, 2007 12:10 am |
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| The Oberlin rep was just at my school this week, and he said that they award merit scholarships to about 10% of students with the average award being around $11,000-12,000. If I recall correctly some of that 10% includes "talent" scholarships for students in the conservatory (I may be incorrect - I've met with so many admissions people in the past few weeks that if I didn't write something down, my memory may be off). I will probably have the chance to talk with Oberlin admissions when I'm at the College Board forum this coming week, so I will try to verify that then.
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outwest
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| Location: | CA |
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Posted: Sun Oct 21st, 2007 12:56 am |
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 A 10% chance is better then a kick in the shins.
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